Kenny
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Posts posted by Kenny
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I was talking to my good friend who is muslim and its amazing how much faith she has in her religion. This got me wondering, everyone has so much faith that their religion is the correct one as well as many people claim that they ahve prayed and received confirmation that their beliefs are true (myself included). Where is their confirmation coming from?
(p.s. this is just meant to be kinda an opinion/philosophical question/thread. i am in no way doubting the truthfulness of the mormon church or downplaying others, simply just wondering how every religion in the world has members who feel that they have had confirmed feelings that their beliefs are true. just something interesting to talk about).
I would like to give it a shot at trying to answer this question, not that there is any expertise here just what has been observed, read about or just guessed at.
The first thing that came to mind was something Gerald Lund said in one of his none fiction books. He talked about pray and why we sometimes feel we do not always get answers.
He said that God answers all prayers, and if we feel he has not it is for one of three reasons:
1: We are not listening
2: He has already answered that question
3: We are not ready for the answer yet.
If a Muslim or any other outside the only true church on Earth should ask is their church true then the answer must reside within 2 because did He not answer that question in the first vision.
My cousin, whom is also a close, dear friend, and devout Catholic, went on the defensive when I talked to her about the church as she saw it as a direct threat to her beliefs. Therefore, I changed my approach and talked only about principles, Jesus Christ, family values, subjects she was comfortable with and none threatening.
This does not change what is truth it just diplomatically allows discussions to continue.
Everybody has something in common it is just a matter of finding it, with Muslim its family values, healthy diets, abstention from alcohol and other damaging substances.
They believe, like the Jews, that the messiah is yet to come for the first time. Their faith is strong, stronger than some of those who have the truth me thinks, but that does not change what is true and that one-day they will know that He already has been once and adopted as the figurehead by their archenemies for centuries.
Personally, I think it is all in the question rather than the answer. Joseph Smith wanted only to know which of the churches he should join, that question got him the correct answer, none of them.
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I do not know of another church that encourages its members to bare their testimonies. There is nothing better to listen to than someone's personal story of how they first knew for a certainty that the church was true, that God lives, and Jesus is the Christ and Saviour of the world. That we have a prophet and apostles and every other office the church Jesus Christ organised two millennia ago.
How uplifting and inspiring to hear ones personal challenges being overcome through living the principles taught in the scriptures, encouraged by our leaders and lived by its members.
Nothing quiet has the same effect on me than that of a sincere whiteness of truth.
So how did you first discover your testimony?
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I was in a meeting some years ago when our visiting Apostle was quite rude I thought to a brother that did not speak loud enough. It took me by surprise along with a few others. During the weekend meetings, he seemed to be at odds with the British sense of humour too.
It was only later, in a Priesthood lesson last year when it occurred to me that I was looking far to low and only when raising my eyes to Him that he represented did the bad feeling he had created go away.
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Topic.
When I first join the church 23 years ago, understanding and excepting the word of wisdom, not just the letter but the spirit of the law, asked my high priest, high councilman home teaching companion, innocently, how it was possible that a member of the church, even serving on the high council could not only run but own a pub. My companion could not give me an answer, perhaps because he was unaware of it. The member was released from his calling shortly afterwards and his daughter then went on a hate campaign against me that still exist to this day.
People have their agency and can make decisions business or otherwise either way but for me and mine we’ll keep clear of pubs especially earning a living from them.
if LDS cannot set an example then who can?
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It has been most interesting reading people's ideas on this subject and this has helped me understand a few things.
Perhaps I look at this too deeply or am missing something but all that comes to mind when pondering on this subject is a loving Father in heaven wanting us to learn an important lesson.
There is only one way to gain the joy and happiness in the fullness that He has and the keys to that are contained in the Plan of Salvation.
So there has only ever been one plan as has been stated, so why the allowance of another plan if only to be discussed and debated?
How often are we in church given things to do and find it to difficult so try a simpler way.
How many Bishop's or Stake President's rather than follow the hand book try different ways to work with us?
Lucifer had exactly the same opportunity to be our saviour as Jehovah did yet like so many of us faced with something we think is to hard try to improve things by introducing a better way.
And how many of us like Lucifer when our plan is rejected take the hump and refuse to do what know we should.
For many, repenting restores us back, for some it leads to open rebellion and walking away from the one true church.
The answer to the original question I've concluded from this is that while he knew the plan he really did not understand it for had he then his ultimate demise should have change his course.
But that is also part of the lesson the Lord is trying to teach isn't it?
And why we are to constantly encouraged to warn our neighbour.
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I think the option right now is:
snowboarding or waterskiing since that was last posted by dazed.
Pam there must be some delay because the last post I recieved was the one I responded too.
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which brings up something interesting.
More interesting 'what if' food for thought. So how could Satan NOT understand the plan of salvation if this is the case?
Satan had no real power over Adam and Eve while they remained faithful to the commandments of God; he was more interested in us or those that would not obey the commandments.
This is the great lesson God continues to teach us if we obey the commandments we nullify Satan's power.
Satan cannot force us to disobey but he certainly can temp us to forget them once in a while. He understands the plan that we can repent and regain the power to put him behind us so uses his best trick of all to get us to think God does not love us because of our sins or is ashamed of us because He cannot look on sin in the least degree.
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Kenny: As to why he begiled Eve... this question was actually one that shook my teenage testimony, because it was hard to understand the answers people were trying to tell me.
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GaySaint basic human nature is the key to the answer. I think sometimes that we can get caught up in trying to figure out the mind of someone we dont understand but when you get down to it Lucifer could not live up to his son of the morning status and probably to save face came up with an idea that made him look to us better than he was.
What I am trying to show is just how selfish and cowardly Satan was.
There are many discernable traits to someone with no real courage and is self-centred, a couple is to be cunning and manipulative.
As the adversary he was the exact opposite of the Saviour so therefore had no real interest in our salvation except as a trophy to present as payment for his great idea.
Egocentric is another one of those traits, remember it wasn't the plan that got him exiled but the revolt after not being chosen.
Now that he was out of heaven he lost the influence and protection of God and this changed him from Lucifer to the devil.
All he needed now was access to us so knowing the plan beguiled Eve. Having broken one of the two commandments they were asked to keep Adam partook and opened the door for us to come down.
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Then again, Satan couldn't have started his work to 'destroy' the work of the Lord if Adam and Eve were still in the Garden today could he? Also, how can he destroy the work of the Lord when the Lord's work is outlined in the plan of salvation?
Exactly, not much of an adversary with only two of Father's children down here, he needed access to all of us. That is why he had to know the plan, use it against Adam and bring about the fall. Adam would never have partook of the fruit and the only other commandment was to multiply and replenish the Earth not possible until after the fall.
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And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile Eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.
The scripture is from Moses 4:6
Satan does not understand the plan
Not knowing the mind of God does not mean he did not understand the plan.
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Obviously Satan thinks his plan is not futile. If he did, he could foil God by simply “lying low” for a while. I think he honestly thinks he’s going to win.
Now, what is his definition of win? Is one soul enough? 10? 100?
In addition, I think he is still proceeding with his plan. Look at how many addictions there are out there. And just what does an addiction do? Removes our agency.
It was said in the class, with confusion I may add, how was it possible that he could aid the plan by beguiling Eve. What is your thoughts on that?
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I think I know what you are getting at Kenny: If Satan knew the plan, then he knew the plan called for an adversary. If he knew the plan called for an adversary, why would he fulfill that role?
You are on the right track but consider that he, while realising there must be an adversary also knew there must be a saviour. He (being a saviour) must love us unconditionally, be willing to suffer in innocence, take on our sins and offer up the ultimate sacrifice. Do you think that could have been the basis of coming up will an alternative plan instead?
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I always thought he did, hence why he presented his own, manipulated version of Heavenly Father's plan to the hosts of heaven.
I always wondered that if he didn't understand the plan, how could he have presented a changed form of it that people would accept? He was one of the 'noble and great ones', so I doubt he was clueless.
In fact, I bet he knew a good amount of the plan (maybe even a lot of the details too), considering now he's trying so hard to keep people from learning about it.
Yes I agree he had to know even be intimate with the details. What are your feelings and understanding of his motivation to come up with an alternitive plan?
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I'd have to take the resort, but only by a thin line. ;-)
Scuba-diving in the Pacific or touring Europe?
Touring Europe I cant Scuba-Dive
Enterprise or Voyager
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Last Sunday's lesson was on Adam and Eve and a question was asked did Satan understand the plan of salvation?
Now I know the answer to this question but judging by the varying answers from those in the class it would be interesting to get some viewpoints from further afield.
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There is a misconception in this church that God looks upon us with narrowed vision and in that He only loves us when we are good.
There are two sides to our heavily parent one as our father and the other as our God. Both love us unconditionally regardless of what have done, do now and will do in the future. He being the almighty is not weighed down by emotions like disappointment, hatred or unrighteous anger. But as God he must judge us for failing to obey the law that we agreed to abide to before accepting His Son's plan.
Think about His love, the law says no sin not even a tiny one, in that it is absolute and unmoving; this is the God in Him. Abiding to the law brings untold blessings and abilities like He has. But He knew we would fail, perfection is tuff, so the father in Him gave us a simpler way to fulfil the law and that was to have someone who loved us equally, someone He knew that would succeed and have Him satisfy the demands of justice. This then allowed us to repent when we failed. The payoff for this is that we lose the ability to get back by our own efforts we rely on someone else no matter how close to perfection we manage here.
The gospel exist in the world but normally is fragmented and good men and women sometimes pick up one of these fragments and build their church on it.
The LDS church is the only church on Earth that claims to have the fullness of the gospel, all the fragments, including all the saving graces.
As a seeker of the truth is OK to see the good in churches but when you deliberate which has all the truth that should be the one you build your future on. But remember the road ahead is often difficult but the destination makes the journey worth it.
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I'm sure there are churches out there who deny all revelation, but this would seem to me to be an extreme minority. Most churches affirm revelation and must do so because revelation for most born again churches is the only way to learn about God. Almost all would agree that the bible is a source of revelation. So it’s inaccurate to say that in most revelation is denied. Many people also DO claim personal revelation with things like, “God impressed this on me…” or “I feel God is really telling me…”. So it’s also inaccurate to say that most born again churches deny personal revelation. That’s simply not true. There are some people who are more open to personal revelation than others and sure, there are people who don’t believe in personal revelation at all today. I’ve also noticed that born-again Christians who engage in polemics against the LDS church are themselves more likely to deny personal revelation, but this seems to me to be a debate tactic and defense mechanism and not a reflection of what average Evangelical-Joe will believe.
I could be wrong though, I have no statistics on this; perhaps you do and can show me wrong.
If you say the revelation came from the bible, yes you will get a resounding nod from all but the very extreme, if you say 'I felt being led by God' then few people would disagree with you that God does sometimes communicate with us.
But say a living prophet receives modern revelation on a day-to-day basis then you will get a different answer. Say that individual’s can ask God directly about something and receive revelation, like is the Book of Mormon true, or is that person, just called, the right person etc don't be surprised if you see a disrespectful rolling of the eyes
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I got to thinking the other day about something I heard at a fireside a number of years ago when a General Authority said that from the time of Christ 'til now, approximately 70 billion people will have inhabited the earth. That figure of 70 billion stuck in my head after that talk and what I was wondering is do the Christian religions who teach that unless you accept Jesus as your personal Savior you will really go to an everlasting, literal burning lake of fire where you will be tortured day and night forever and ever? When you think of that figure of 70 billion, can you honestly say AT LEAST HALF of those people will be in such a fiery state, especially since most "born again" style religions teach that the majority will NOT make heaven? DOES THIS MEAN THAT WELL OVER 35 BILLION PEOPLE WILL BE BURNING FOREVER AND EVER???!!!! That's over 5x our earth's total population right now!!! I cannot possibly fathom such a thing as that!!! Also, are all these people in the center of the earth right now, according to what most Christian churches teach? What about the people that lived for 4,000 years before the time of Christ where nothing about a lake a fire was ever taught in the Old Testament? Are they in for a fiery surprise when they die? Just honestly trying to understand all of this. Thanks.
What is missing here and vital to the understanding is revelation. It’s interesting that so many of the Born gain churches deny revelation, personal or otherwise. We learn so much about the nature of our Father in heaven from revelation.
Your answers are in the writings of modern prophets.
What you must remember is that of those 70 billion half would have died under the age of accountability and are thus automatically saved in Christ. Of the 35 billion remaining less than a tenth will have accepted the Gospel and kept their second estate. The rest vicarious work will be carried out for them and a great many more will be saved. Large numbers will inherit the terrestrial and the telestrial kingdoms. The remainder will be sent to outer darkness and suffer eternal punishment. So the numbers that will burn in hell are no way near the numbers these churches claim.
Remember also the Lord said that eternal punishment meant His punishment because He was Eternal it may not be for eternity but will most certainly be subject to the mercies of God.
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Passing an office building late one night, a sweet young thing sees a sign that reads, "Press bell for night watchman."
She puts her finger on the bell and presses. After several minutes, she hears the watchman clomping down the stairs.
The man unlocks first one gate, then another, shuts down the alarm system, and finally makes his way through the revolving door.
"Well," he snarls at the young woman, "what do you want?"
"I just wanted to know why you can't ring the bell for yourself."
The innocence of children can often bring a chuckle and yours was a classic.
I remember our local council having to change the sign from 'Dogs must be led' to 'Dog's must be on a lead' because children were worried their pets could not go into the park unless they were made of the metal.
Or a young son on seeing straw bales in a field while travelling in the car said quite innocently 'Look mummy, Wheatabix."
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I watched "The New World" movie last night, and there were a couple lines in it (between John Smith and Pocohantas) that were almost exactly word for word
in "Avatar". Example, John Smith, " I thought that day in the field was just a
dream, but that is ALL that's real." In another line when John Smith is just
thinking to himself, as he is in the Jamestown fort, he says something like, "The
real world is out there. " (where Ponchantas' tribe lives)
No matter, they are both great films, and James Cameron's beautiful graphics made
"Avatar" stand out, even if the story had already been told before.
I agree both are great films but in different ways and for my vote Pocahontas wins the best story Oscar and Avatar the best visual display. What is worrying is that there was no mention that the story was based, even loosely, by Cameron or for that matter any of the critics on Pocahontas. With Titanic for example Cameron’s slant on it, while not the best story line, (The Longest Night takes that one) it was by far the best graphically but we always knew what it was based on.
Avatar to me signals a continuing trend in Hollywood and one that reflects the times we live in. There is a need for a new story, a new hero, and some clean, honest depictions of men, women and children overcoming or bucking the trend. What a great movie it would be if a ‘How the west was won’ style production was put out about how, despite being surrounded by selfishness, a group of people are standing firm, are obedient, trustworthy, decent, family loving, God fearing and willing to see and seek out all that is good.
:hmmm:Wonder what it would be called?
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I saw this on a friend's blog this afternoon. He said not to read it if you haven't seen both Pocahontas and Avatar.
I knew Avatar reminded me of something to do with the American Indian now this gives an actual link.
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So this is hands down the best movie I have ever seen. I saw it in 3D, which was awesome, because they invented a new type of camera to better film 3D, as wel as new software to make the CG more realistic.
On top of that, it had a compelling story line and good character development. Some people compared it to the last samurai, because a warrior adopts his enemies beliefs and joins them against his old comrades.
But this had so much more. I was simply awestruck as this movie kept my interest the entire time. The action scenes were amazing, and there were times when you felt as though the action was happening to you (because of the 3D, objects would almost hit you).
I would recomend everyone go see this amazing film.
There was nothing new in Avatar's theme and it reminded me more of what the American Indians went through, or those in the rain forest regions now. I agree it was compelling viewing from start to finish, (I watched it in 2D) but my excitement waned after a few days. If you compare this movie to other ground breaking releases like Jaws, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Alien, Terminator then Avatar is weak. But if you compare it to Movies like Titanic, Toy Story, or 2001 Space Odyssey then its way out there purely on visual content.
Sex, violence and profanity sell movies and these days there are fewer and fewer films devout LDS can watch but I felt Cameron dealt with these very tastefully. However there are differences in the age of an LDS eight year old and a worldly one and would have not been comfortable taking one so young to watch it.
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Peaceful Easy Feeling - Eagles
Bending the rules again Jonny.
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Rain dance Lyrics B.Cunningham - B Winter
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Good from it is a great practice.