MaMeeshkaMow

Hello, How/when did this doctrine of the age of accountability happen (age 8)? A friend asked me at work and I wasn't sure. Thanks!

Have a picture of Jesus Christ as a screensaver, put your computer outside of your house like on a deck and use it outside (no way you would do porn stuff in the open, having it in the living room is not enough). If it gets stolen, its not in your life anymore. I would say don't sing hymns because next time that song is played in church, the original bad thoughts might come again. Take cold showers. Call your mother if the urge is high. When the computer is on, turn on I-tunes with the scriptures being read in the background, crank up the scripts man! Just thinking outloud.

My belief is that God inspired Joseph to go visit them because they had some elements of true symbolic practices (they go all the way back to the temple of Solomon I believe) and then God taught Joseph what was right, what to use and what he should teach. Thus, some elements are similar.

Thanks for the responses!

I have the highest respect for the prophet and apostles. They breathe worthiness, the light of Christ shines through their eyes...how "deep" into the Atonement did they have to go through to attain that righteousness? What I'm asking is do you think any of them have gone through painful repentance experiences (for more serious sins) to personally experience the Atonement or do you think it's mostly helping others (as former Bishops, Stake Presidents) go through repentance that give them more understanding of the atonement? I guess the second part of that questions is do you need to go through the lows of lows (of sin) to understand the high of highs (feeling connected to God through the atonement)? Do you have to experience personal anguish because of personal bad choices of sin to understand God's higher purpose? Please discuss...

My wife and I have been in our ward for about a year now. We are in a huge ward where the overflow is overflowing all the time. We like it alright yet it's one of those wards where you feel you can get lost (almost like you don't have a unique presence). Not to say wards outside Utah are better, but the wards I've been to in New York, France, and Japan seem to have MORE warmer people, people talk to you....maybe it's because the big numbers out here in Utah, but we are feeling the social aspect of church is missing in our lives (I know it's not the most important reason to go, but it's nice to connect to people). So here's the question. My wife is Colombian, speaks Spanish and we found out that there's a Spanish speaking ward kinda close to us. Now I don't speak Spanish (really wanting to learn) and we had our first baby (who we want to learn Spanish eventually). Do you think it's ok to switch wards? Is that a good enough reason to switch wards? Thanks!!!

Remember a whole bunch of souls followed Lucifer because they thought his plan was better probably because "evil" and free agency were not in the equation of salvation. Salvation would be automatic. Happiness (imagined) would have been automatic. Knowing the true order of progression, Jesus's plan was chosen because we would have to use free agency for our better good. Unfortunately, that means people will choose evil deeds. Did God know this? Of course. Does that mean He is cold? No, because of two things. One: those who are treated bad because of how people unjustly use their free agency WILL receive their reward in heaven. Two: Sifting out evil! Those who choose bad will have their place if they do not repent. Imagine if God chose Lucifer's plan? If everyone received salvation automatically and went to the Celestial kingdom automatically, I'm sure no one would know anybody's true intentions!! That's because we are individual intelligences with individual personalities. We needed to be tested. There had to be sifting. I'm sure God was sad knowing this because that meant he would lose souls. But, He would know who was on his side. The first big sifting was done with the war in heaven. The next: our lives here on earth. What do we do with our free agency?

I don't if this would help but it just came to me. Why not put pictures of Jesus up in the computer room? Or pictures of gospel themes? Picture of Mom even. Also, exercise a lot!!! Let's be frank here too. You might feel there is no other way to "release", that you have to do this to relieve those urges. You will also have those certain dreams that do release....I mean I'm not saying pray for those dreams but you know they will happen if you don't release the pornography way.

No active voting, but passive voting. Lucifer didn't call for a recount of votes? Haha.

I know the atonement is eternal in that it can take affect during our soul's existence. Question on this. If we get a chance to be like Heavenly Father and reach peaks of divinity (a long time away!!!), will the atonement that we experience in our lives be the same atonement for the human creations we undertake on the planets we create? Or do you think we would have to go through another "war in heaven", find a Saviour, do the things our Heavenly Parents went through...how eternal is the atonement we know about? Along with this, would there ever be a time when the Jesus Christ we know be relieved of his role as Saviour (if a new one needed to be appointed)...of course he could never be replaced for us because He's our Saviour forever but what about future creations/generations? I can't help but ask the next question. In order to become like Heavenly Father, would we have to pass through a Jesus role, to sacrifice ourselves for sin and go through the pain he went through maybe for our Father's created earths? It almost seems unfair we can share all the glories with Heavenly Father without going through what they went through. OR, are we so blessed that we don't need to go through that?

Advice: Pray in the morning, in the day, at night coupled with scripture reading. That helps the "spiritual" aspect of your life. Next: Mental. Read good books, play sudoku, engage the mind in worthwhile and worthywhile activities. Physical: Exercise and sweat doing it! I think when you take care of these areas of your life in this way, you gain confidence and break cycles of boredom.

What would Screwtape say if Lucifer was forgiven, anyway!! (C.S Lewis)

Maybe one of the reasons for that parable...how many of us would be jealous if he came back? He definitely would be getting attention if he came back...how could we handle that? Interesting!!

Stand corrected, thanks. Experiencing/watching the fall of Lucifer, did that give us any knowledge about the difference of good and evil? Or can you only understand good/evil in the flesh (obviously evil spirits know the difference between them and God's angels). This is making me think about when Lucifer "became" evil? Did he become a sinner first, for not obeying God? I wonder how long it took from the time his plan got rejected and the time it took for him to be cast off. I'm wondering that because it doesn't seem like God would just say, "You don't like it, you're outta here!!" Could Satan himself have casted himself out in a way because no unclean thing can be in the presence of God...like the more he rebelled, became contentious, the more space was created between them?

Wow, deep stuff guys! I think we had free agency in the pre-mortal existence as well, otherwise how did some become more valiant than others. Plus, we all had to choose which side we would be on. Do you ever wonder how you processed the war in heaven in the pre-mortal existence in your mind? Do you think you had any doubts before saying you would side with Christ's plan? Did we debate it with others or do you think we said YES right away? Part of me says when we are shown a review of our lives when we die, we will be shown a "pre-view" of what it was like before. Bring out the popcorn. Jk

You are the winner, Dravin! haha. Nope, not Scandinavian. Ma Meeshka Mow comes from a song title by my favorite artist, Mr. Bungle. They are the most brilliant (were, I should say) band ever fronted by the most talented musician/singer on the planet: Mike Patton!! He was the lead singer for the band Faith No More.

Vort, I respect your opinion on this matter. However, I have to disagree on one thing. It is true that if Lucifer can/cannot be forgiven, it doesn't affect us. However, the core of the matter is forgiving people and being forgiven, which I think is a very fundamental part of the Gospel, and therefore applies to our daily lives. Substitute Lucifer for someone that has wronged you in the worst possible way...can you forgive....I have a hard time with it (even forgiving myself) which makes me want to be better at it. Just thinking that's all.

Thanks for the replies and insight. I wanted to ask the next part of the question, which I hope doesn't offend people. When that time is right for you to be at the highest level of divinity (when you become like Heavenly Father which would take a long time to get there!!!!!) , could you forgive the Devil? You know how they say you should forgive your enemies? What if this is the last step? After all, the devil has wronged you, tempted you, was your enemy...could you do it? This makes me think of "who" we actually should forgive. If the devil or his demons tempt man that directly negatively influences us, it is the Christian thing to forgive that man (if it is reasonable to do so). This is because that man used his free agency to act upon temptation. But, should we forgive the source as well? Which brings me to another question. Sorry for this rambling. We talk about the free agency of man. Does Lucifer have free agency to tempt man? If he does, that means he has a pretty good gift to use. It also is very ironic because that was something he was against the whole time (free agency). Could God have given that to him to show him what it would be like (of course without a body) to use it?

Just had a question to see if there's any info/scriptures on this: Would/Could Lucifer ever be forgiven? On one hand, he's done enough evil to surpass the 7x7 forgiveness limit plan(haha) but on the other hand, you think that without temptation/evil, we would never know good...what if he had hope...thoughts on that...I know the concept of perdition and outer darkness but does the outer darkness sphere have any door of hope to come in the light....He had potential, could he redeem himself kinda like Darth Vadar... I know also the concept of no forgiveness for someone who has received an absolute witness by the Holy Ghost but rejects it....however in his case, just by the fact he never received a body, could that help his cause. Not that I have sympathy for the devil, but I'm just curious about this subject....

I just discovered this site. It looks pretty cool! My name is Matt. I live in Saratoga Springs, Utah but have lived all over, including Japan and France. Nice to meet you all!