leeuniverse

Focus instead on being a good man, preparing for what marriage really entails, on your education and career, and on having some fun on the side, and eventually the woman who want's YOU will come along, if you are really ready, and she is ready, you have a match. It's as simple as that. Expectations will kill you, worse if you actually married one and either of you wasn't actually ready, those expectations would create divorce.

link fixed & updated....

Just to clarify.... Jason, I know well about the Temple and it's "changes" and have studied the words of ALL "character's" in LDS history. I've also studied almost every anti-mormon book, and most books related to the Church in exhistance. So, you believe what you want to believe, and I'll judge by what is known and the full facts presume. Good luck..... Back to talking about the Church in China....

wHAT's with the "quoting" thing?

Hearsay does not equal "evidence" against the Church complicity. Pretty sad if that is your level of intellectual inquiry. Again, hearsay, in fact there is direct evidence AGAINST such with the letter Brigham sent but arrived LATE, which in fact instructed the Saints to leave the party alone. Still doctrine, but as in times past, simply not currently practiced. More specifically, ONLY "Africans" and the Priesthood. Nothing to do with "color", for thousands of blacks from several races WHERE given the Priesthood. It was a Ban in the Scriptures, so the Church couldn't change it until God revealed it so. Again, there is scriptural precedent of the Priesthood, and even the Gospel itself having "selective" use by certain groups of people. Why don't you learn the difference between the reveled Eternal Gospel Principles taught in Scripture and the Temple, compared to methodology's used to teach these principles. In otherwords, anything can change in the Temple, as long as the revealed principles and symbolisms are still taught. Which they are. Nothing has changed related to such. You should listen to this audio which touches on this a bit, and thus learn something. http://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/Mormo...005-Masonry.mp3 Not sure where your going with this. You seem to find the most "scant" evidentiary of things to dwell on. But anyway, such was an ancient practice for health. I'm guessing which isn't needed today, since we have shower's. Instead of, or in addition too? I'm guessing again that you do not understand the practice nor how much or when it needs to be done. It is a special rare ordinance, like at least one other special and rare ordinance (Calling and Election made sure). Again, what is "whitewashed"??? These things are irrelevant to the Gospel taught on Sunday accept as they might apply when the situation requires it. Do not assume that your negative paradigm and judgments of these issues is somehow the "truth", and thus need to be addressed. It IS NOT, and thus they DO NOT. Well, good for you and him.... But most religions, teacher's and preachers focus on teaching the Gospel of Christ, rather than every nuance of scholarship and history in their Sunday classes. Note also, that unlike MMM or Boggs, there is no evidence at all that the "Church" was involved. Compared to the Inquisitions and the Crusades, of course how are they going to "hide" from it??? It's irrefutable history. I know having been active in almost 50 Wards of the Church that once in awhile as it might come up and apply, all of the above issues that you assume is so terrible have been discussed briefly. But again, it goes right by to the Gospel message. Such things are for addressing in Church colleges, Institutes of Religion, etc. They have nothing to do with the Church that is important. It is only YOUR negative and misinformed view of the issues that make YOU think they "should" be addressed. But guess what, such does not make history, nor the Restored Gospel that needs to be addressed during precious Church time in which the focus is changing the souls and actions of men for the better. What you speak of is an "Academic" excersise..... And as such it belongs in "Academic" settings, such as in a small degree forums like these. Actually, I make no such error, for I said no such thing. You have created it out of thin air. Read what I wrote more carefully again. I meant "LDS Bookstores" in it's general common meaning, I wasn't saying the "Churches" bookstores. Maybe you think so..... But there is clearly a lot more for you to learn and understand, given your several "kindergarten" understandings of LDS matters. Quite telling especially when you use your judgments of MMM or Boggs in your argument. But, that is how it is with every single anti pet peeve against this Church. Every one is a judgment based on poor and small amounts of fact usage. Using a little truth to tell great lies....

1. Actually, no they aren't. The Church on Sunday's and otherwise is all about teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and making bad men good and good men better. All the facts of history, and especially the distortions thereof by anti-mormonism is irrelevant to this mission and is in fact a distraction. Not everyone is interested in "scholarship". 2. What the Church does is no different than what any other religion does. Do you think the Catholic Church teaches in Sunday school the "Inquisition" or the "Crusades", or about the wicked Popes of the Church, etc. etc? No they don't. However, the Catholic Church LIKE the LDS Church doesn't at all hide from it's history. For anything essentially on Catholicism can be found in Catholic and otherwise bookstores. The same for mormonism. All of anti-mormonism and the Churches FULL HISTORY is entirely found and addressed in LDS BOOKSTORES. In otherwords, know-one is "hiding" anything nor being intellectually dishonest. I should know especially, since I've been non-religious as well as a Christian of multiple religions, a basic believing LDS, embracer of Eastern thought and practices, anti-LDS, and now a full and forever knower of the Truth. So, you can't tell me what the Church does and doesn't do, because I've been on all sides of the fence. The Church IS literally the Lords Kingdom in the last days..... But, that's my witness, and one which took a great deal of balanced and humble experience and study to learn. How much blood is on your hands in the endeavor to know what the Absolute "Truth" is?

Tell your friend that if he wants to have a brain and not be brainwashed, he needs to withhold his judgments and also read the same amount of LDS Books and Scholarship. He can start here http://www.fairlds.org Any person who is still "fair-minded" and humble, will easily see the bearing false witness that occurs with anti-mormonism when comparing the two. It's not hard to see either, just take any negative claim against the Church, and the full truth tells a different story.

Did you even look at the graphic? Clearly, the stuff he GOT RIGHT is "extensive". Or didn't you notice the changes from red to green up till now, as well as the white? I think your confused. For you ignore fact, so as to continue supporting your negative view of the Church. The "fact", is that Joseph is being proven correct as time goes on. If he was actually a false prophet, there should be little change to the list. Yet, the list went from almost all red to almost all green. So, how do you explain that? I also strongly encorage you to further see all he "got right" by reading the book "Lehi in the Wilderness", and watching the DVD's. http://www.nephiproject.com It is impossible for Joseph to have gotten so much right. Not to mention the fact of what the history tells of the translation process. Joseph had nothing to "plagurize" from, for there were plenty of witnesses to the process, the short time it was accomplished, as well as to the plates themselves.

Oops.... Some kind of posting bug. Sorry for all the posts.

These pic's are taken from Session 2 of John E. Clark's presentation (time 1:32) at the Joseph Smith Symposium at the Library of Congress. Joseph Smith Conference Unfortunately, the video wasn't clear to read the exact text, even the original wasn't fully clear. But, it gives at least an idea of how much science actually compared to Book of Mormon claims in 1845 compared to now in 2005. Green=Known Red=Unknown White=Probable/Indeterminant 1842 2005 VIDEO = As you can see.... There is significant "validation" of Book of Mormon claims, that Joseph simply couldn't have known about. I highly recommend folks watch the entire conference, the whole of Session 2 was especially good.

Session Two however is sadly missing the last two speakers. I'm bumbed because I think one of them had a nice chart which showed 1800's science compared to the Book of Mormon, and todays science compared to the Book. Science has validated a bunch of Book of Mormon claims.

You should definately go to the FAIR Conference then, you get all the building without having to kill the Termites that also infest Sunstone. I've been twice, and should be going again this year. Best time of my year. :)

The video's are now up....

This is a inaccurate reading..... The verse above in question is speaking on the "gift" of Prophecy and the relating of the Commandments from God, as to who is given the authority to relate such to the Church. So what this verse is stating is that MORE than ONE person can have the gift of Prophecy in the Church, and for the Church, but only one at a time. And the one who had it, has the authority to call another which also has it given. For example, sometimes a Prophet doesn't Prophecy, for whatever reason, maybe his own personal problems at the time. When this happens, that Prophet can appoint another who has the authority to Prophecy in the name of the Lord. Remember now, there are two kinds of Prophets, though not mutually exclusive. There are Seers and their are Watchmen. Right now, there is predominately Watchmen leading the Church, the Lord has not a need for a Seer. Remember also, that all of the Apostles are set apart as Prophets, Seers, and Revelator's. In otherwords, they hold all the keys of Prophecy's as Prophets. So, if the Prophet was Revelating, and he couldn't any longer, he would call another in the Apostleship, or maybe someone else who would be set apart whom had something from the Lord to say. So, the above verse DOES NOT apply to the issue you are asking about. If the Prophet of the Church were to loose his authority, the Twelve Apostles as a quorum would call the next in Line, that being whomever is the most senior Apostle. So in answer to your understanding, no, those who loose their Priesthood Authority have no power and authority to call anyone to do anything. The above verse is only applicable to the "Gift" of Prophecy, not as the head of the Church. Note, there is Biblical Precedence for this as well, because there was Prophets and Seers in the early Church who apparently were not one of the Apostles of Christ. But there is not any information on this, so we can't really be sure how everything operated back then. Clearly it must have been something that was immediately lost, because there is no mention of such things in history and Catholic history. I hope I was able to help....