SolaFide

"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name preform many miracles?' And I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' (Matthew 7:22-23) "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

You're confusing the distinctives being and person. A being is what makes something what it is. It is the essence or nature of that thing. A person, in the theological sense that I am using it, is the ability to use personal attributes. (To feel, speak, have a will, etc.) Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all Monotheistic. That is, we all believe in one being of God. That is what determines Monotheism or Polytheism: The number of beings of God. The difference that arises between Jews and Muslims and Chrsitians is that the two former groups are Unitarian Monotheists and the latter is Trinitarian Monotheists. Are disagreement is on the number of persons whithin the one being. Mormons, on the other hand, readily affirm multile beings of God; hence the Polytheistic classification.

What was Jesus doing in the garden? Praying. He was sincerly afraid and was asking the Father remove this cup from Him. But, He aslo was submitting His will to the will of the Father. He was offering a final prayer for His people before He was taken to be killed. All of this was preperation for what was to come. I simply see no Biblical reason to say that He bearing sins in the garden like He was on the cross.

Wow. Hold on. That is not fare to myself or to the many other Christians who love LDS people and pour their hearts and souls into sharing the Gospel with them. Do I beleive that you are wrong? Yes, I certainly do. But I don't want to harm you in any way. I want you to avoid harm and come to the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Pleae, do not assume that I am coming in a spirit of anger or hatred because I most certainy am not.

I do not want you to think that. I just want to discuss truth.

With all due respect, you would be at odds with your own founders on this particular issue. Jesus was born as the first spirit child of Elohim, God the Father. He worked through eternal progression to become a god. And the early Mormon leaders would have no problem saying that they were different gods. I don't say that to be rude; it is just a part od history and I can give sources if you would like. Believing in a different Jesus does make him a different Jesus. The people of the world religions believe different things about 'god' and we have no problem clarifying that they in fact believe in different gods. You attach your theological views of Jesus to the Jesus of history the same as I do. But ultimately you wind up with a Jesus that looks incredibly different than my own. A Jesus is has been God from all eternity and a Jesus who became a god are indeed different.

I know that Mormons are sincere people who work hard to follow God. I do not deny that. But my question is are we so far away in our beliefs that we must be classified in different camps? And I honestly, with no ill will intedned, believe that we are. The most foundational belief of any religion is whether it is Monotheist, Pantheistic, Polythiestic, etc. And historical, orthodox Christians and Mormons differ on this key issue. Historical, orthodox Christians are firmly Monotheistic. But Mormons are Polytheistic, or at least Henotheistic. We differ on how many beings of God there are. That is the most basic question. Yes, we do both believe in Jesus, but they are different Jesus'. My Jesus has been the one God from all eternity. The Mormon Jesus was begotten by His Heavenly Father at some point in the past and progressed to Godhood. Those are very different Jesus'. I do not say that out of meaness or disrespect. I simply feel it is strong enough to push Mormons outside the bouns of Christianity.

So you are saying that Christ took sins upon Himself in the Garden and in some way paid for them there. I would say that such a notion is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Christ took sins on the cross, that much is certain. "And He Himselfbore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you are healed." (1 Peter 2:24). But I know of no Biblical evidence that supports the concept of Jesus bearing sins in the garden. McConkie gives none. And I do not believe that God continues to give us revelation through apostles and propehts as He did during Old and New Testament times. I believe that there is no Biblical support for that position, although I do feel that there is support for the idea that prophets (in the sense in which we are speaking of them) have ceased. "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it." (Luke 16:16)

Right. So are you saying that you agree with me that Mormonism is different then Christianity? Or, would you at least say that Mormonism is different from what I would classify as historic, orthodox Christianity? (One God in all existence, This God existing as one being and three persons, justification by faith alone, etc.)

So I am not a Mormon (I am a Reformed Baptist) and do not hold to the same theological position that a Mormon would. And I have to admit that I do not really understand what you believe about the Garden of Gethsemane. What do you think Jesus actually accomplished there? As achrisian I would say that the cross is where Jesus actually bore the sins of His people and satisfied the wrath of God, thereby imputing His righteousness to us and justifing us. If there was no resurrection then the atonement would still be important, but the effects of what Christ accomplished on the cross would only last until a person dies. However, in His resurrectuon He overcomes the weight of death and makes it possible to have life again and experience what Christ did for His people throughout all eternity. So from my perspective Christ actually accomplishes something on the cross and in His resurrection. But I don't understand what you think He does in the garden. I am not saying it is unimportant; but I would say that He is preparing for what is to come, not doing something in and of itself.

Hey, guys. So I am a Christian, a Reformed Baptist if we want to be specific, and it seems to me that Mormonism should be classified as a different religion thatn Christianity. I certainly do not say that to be rude or disrespectful; it just seems to me that Mormonism has certain aspects to it that conflict with some of the historic foundational issues of Christianity. So, I was wondering: would you guys explain from your prespective what it means to be a Mormon? Again, I am in no way trying to be disrespectful. I just want to have honest dialouge so that hopefully we can understand each other better.