striving

Also I wanted to clarify the phrasing you used earlier when you said that LDS believe that people get "second chance" after death. I think that it would probably be more correct to refer to it as a "first chance". There are many, many people who never had the chance to learn of Jesus because of when/where they lived. We believe that God is just, and he will provide a way for them to hear the Gospel, so they can choose for themselves. Will those of us who have the Gospel now, and turn away and reject it, have a "second chance" to repent after death? Probably not. The scriptures say that THIS LIFE is the time to prepare to meet God.

Thanks for sharing your views! What do you mean by "not everyone is called into God's covenant"? Are you refering to predestination? Do you think that those who are not called into the covenant go to hell? In the LDS faith, we believe that Heavenly Father wants all of His children to return to Him, and we believe that He provides a way for all of His children to hear the message of Christ. One of the most important tenents of our theology is free will. This means the eveyone will have the opportunity to hear the message of Christ's atonement, and choose for themselves if they want to follow Christ or not.

I did not start or title the thread. You have indicated what you think others believe, but what do YOU think? Does a farmer in rural China who hasn't heard of Jesus have a chance at salvation? Do they have an opportunity to learn about Jesus after their death? What is your opinion?

Not everyone. Just you, apparently. Why are you bothering to post here when it's clear that you don't want to discuss the topic?

Yep- 40K is a good deal, but I think it depends on the degree and the school. MBA was $45K and we thought that was pretty good.

Hey Jimmie Dude- Next time try READING the thread before you post..... The Messiah comment was repeated from the post before mine (read and you'll see the context) Both of the evangelicals posting here (texaspride and prison chaplain) said that they believe that those who die without knowing Jesus have a chance at salvation (again, read the thread) I've attended several non-denominational evangelical churches over many years who teach the same. Perhaps BMY or Jimmie may want to actually ANSWER the question instead of taking jabs? Maybe we could have a productive discussion...... What do you both believe on the topic?

Me? No of course I do not think that a loving God would throw these people in an eternal lake of fire all because they couldn't tell you one thing about the Messiah. Absolutely not! No, I am just trying to point out the contradiction in evangelical beliefs. They criticize our (LDS) teachings of temple work for the dead and it drives me crazy! They don't look close enough at their own doctrine. They teach that if people die without knowing Jesus here, they still have a chance at salvation. But when do these deceased learn about Jesus? Surely there won't be folks in heaven who have never heard of Jesus. So obviously there has to be some way for them to learn about Him after they are dead right? It just makes sense. I'm not sure why this is so confusing to evangelicals......This issue was a MAJOR reason for my husband's conversion to the LDS church. He (and I) have always felt that a loving God would want all of his children to hear the wonderful message of salvation, regardless of when or where they lived.

Okay.... So we agree that everyone needs Jesus to be saved. We also agree that those who have not heard of Jesus on earth still have a chance to be saved. Right? Do you think that those who die without knowing Jesus on earth still have to accept him at some point before being admitted to Heaven to dwell with Him?

Sorry didn't see your last post before I posted last.... The difference you'll note in the BofM scriptures you posted is that it is not talking about people in China (or wherever) who have never heard the gospel. Read those scriptures again and you will see that they are talking about those who have a knowledge of the gospel and have had many witnesses. Note these phrases.... after ye have known and have been taught all these things ye have had so many witnesses

You JUST SAID that some people will go to heaven who have NEVER accepted Jesus. THEN you said that Jesus is the ONLY way to heaven. That is a big contradiction. How can it be both?

Thanks for sharing your views on China. I think that the vast majority of Chinese have no real concept of Christ, nor have they ever. Yes there are missionaries and Bibles in China NOW but China has a very loooong history, and Christianity is in it's early infancy there. My question to you was about the contradiction in evangelical beliefs about salvation. Evangelicals say that the only way to be saved is to accept Jesus as Savior. But they also say that God is the Judge and he will decide who is saved, even if that person has never heard of Christ. Evengelicals do not believe that those who die without a knowledge of Jesus have an opportunity to learn of Him and accept Him after death. Accordingly, this MUST mean that there will be people in Heaven who have not accepted Jesus, right? If there are people in Heaven who have not accepted (or ever heard of) Jesus, then doesn't that go against everything Evangelicals teach? Clearly this is not making sense to Texas Pride. Am I making sense to anyone? Does anyone know how evangelicals reconcile this amongst themselves?

You surely can't be serious Texas Pride? Anyone who is even slightly acquainted with world history could never say that there are "very few" who have not heard of Jesus. And it is not just people in the jungle either. Think of the people who have lived in China in the past several thousand years! And that's just one country. I guess you're not understanding what I was saying about point #2 above. You have to follow what you say your beliefs are to their conclusion. You said that the Lord will judge people fairly according to what Paul said in Romans. So according to what you have just said one of two things must be true. 1) there IS a chance to learn of Jesus after death, or 2) there will people in heaven who HAVE NOT heard of or accepted Jesus. Which is it? You say that the "jungle people" will have a chance at salvation but how? Like I said, they will either be saved without knowing Jesus, OR they will be able to learn of Him after death, OR they will be condemned to hell. Can you clarify a bit more? I am really trying to think of how I could phrase my question differently so it would be easier to understand......

Thanks for the reply Texas Pride! So then you are agreeing with Prison Chaplain in saying that there may be people in Heaven who have not heard the Gospel here on earth? Do you think (as LDS do) that there will be a period of education or learning after death for those who have not heard the Gospel here on earth, so that they can learn of Jesus? Or are you saying that they can be saved without accepting Jesus because they have listened to their conscience? I know there are people of many faiths (picture a Bhuddist) who may respond to thier conscience, but never know of Jesus. It seems like if those who do not have the Law are not judged according to the Law, then they don't need Christ? But the Bible says He is the ONLY way to the Father.

Thanks Prison Chaplain! I would always feel so discouraged when I was in small group Bible studies in my former church. It always seemed as if someone was lamenting over a loved one who wasn't "saved", and they always seemed so certain that they KNEW that persons eternal destiny (and their own). I am happy to hear that not all evangelicals take such a hardline stance.

Hi all! I'm new here. Before becoming LDS I attended a non-denominational Bible church. I was always confused by this very subject. A few of the other posters have repeted the same answers I have heard before. I have never understood something though, but have never had enough guts to ask about it. Some on here have said that our world testifies of Gods power and goodness, and that God will make himself known (paraphrasing) through His creation. So then can someone be "saved" just by recognizing that there must be a God? Or, if like Prison Chaplin said, can God decide after someone dies? Wouldn't that still mean they were saved even though they never recognized their need for a Savior? If so, wouldn't that mean that there may be many who are saved WITHOUT a knowledge of Christ? There are billions of people who have lived that have never even heard of Jesus. To me, it seems like there are two options (according to Evengelical belief) 1) Every soul who does not accept Jesus as their Savior is condemed to Hell. This includes EVERY person who has not heard of Christ. 2) God judges according what one would have done had that person had the opportunity to learn of Jesus. This means there will be some in heaven who never heard of Jesus in this life. Can someone explain to me which is the belief of most evangelicals? Thank you and I look foreward to chatting with you all more!!!