IAmTheWork

Slap me for saying something as a new member, but I agree with Pam. If someone feels that something is irrelevant in a theological (or any other) kind of forum, then surely they have every right to say so without being made to feel that they should stay out of the thread? It might make someone who's wrapped up in it too much realise that actually, the whole topic isn't really important to their life in following Christ. Let's face it, if you were face to face with him right now, would your most pressing question be, "Hold on... exactly what date where you born on earth Lord..?" Then again, perhaps it would, and would no doubt make him laugh heartily!

I have to agree with you Kurt, at least to say that that's how I felt years ago when I left the church. Not so much now, as I'm older and more experienced, and would stand my own ground. It's not so much an LDS church problem I'd say, more just a natural human sub-cultural issue of power and control between group members. Many people don't know about, or ignore, recognised psychological knowledge of human interactions. And bishops are not generally trained in anything along those lines either, poor guys! Spiritual inspiration is wonderful when it flows and is perceived easily, but when not then the human side is all we have to fall back on. But then learning from a dimly lit human perspective is why we're here, eh?

I'm interested in this stuff lately (preparedness). But... if the power's down, surely cell phone masts would be off too..?

Not so much a joke, but a funny experience. Some years ago my wife and I used to invite missionaries over for dinner each week, mainly to bet on whether they could eat us out of house and home within an hour. One very dark and rainy winter night we'd just sat around our small table near the back doors to the garden. We'd put our puppy out some minutes before, knowing it would wet itself in excitement, as that puppy did. As we chatted and made drinks, there was a crack of thunder followed by growling and frantic scratching at the door. One elder turned to me, and with just the tiniest hint of a smile said, "I hope you have a dog..."

Hi Crazygamer. Nice Blues Brothers photo! :) Even though I'm an old crock of fifty four, I like games (XBox 360). Playing Fallout 3 for weeks now. A bit dark and depressing, and I can't bring myself to grabbing bad karma, so it keeps levelling me up with angel wings. Ha!

Argh! Just lost a posted reply. Anyway, it was along the lines of needing to have our own experiences. It's a bit of a knife-edge topic I suppose. As you say Backroads, we must have our own thoughts and experiences. And as you say Bini, even destructive experiences can provide very valuable life lessons. I guess what church leaders (of any denomination) are warning against is that we may not survive such experiences, either physically or emotionally, so don't take the risk. That takes us into the subject of self-determination and free will, which we always have of course. Isn't existence a wonderful and weird paradox..? Anyway, enough from me here I think, as it's meant to be a short intro thread only.

@Bini; Yes, I too find it interesting that most of what annoyed me about the church just doesn't seem so important any more, and all the very good things, including doctrine which has been shown to be real by my own experiences, now seems much more obvious. While it would perhaps be somewhat irresponsible for me to say that years away from church isn't as bad as many think, it does seem to me that we need to grow in our own ways. Whatever we choose for ourselves, our father and mother, and all those who help us through eternity, never desert us.

@MichaelCraig; Yes, I think if you watch and watch, you can end up seeing only what your eyes can see, but as you say, being in the deep woods and feeling watched in turn makes us aware of other very helpful spiritual forces. While my continual experience is of more human looking angels, I did have a very powerful experience of nature spirits some years ago, governed by (guess what?) a powerful father figure. Those who like the 'old ways' sometimes called pagan or wiccan etc., describe the god and goddess as being loving creators, yet they generally can't accept LDS views of the same beings just described in a slightly different way. And of course many church members are a little scared of 'old ways' as they see them as perhaps devilish. While anthropologists and others may say that mankind created a god and goddess in their own image out of primitive fear, my experience and that of countless others shows that to be a very weak perspective, though natural to the 'natural man' I suppose. Guardian angels - oh yes, certainly. I'd say more one close friend who promised to stay by your side every moment of this lifetime. They may save your life, or may not, depending upon what you have to do. But that particular point bothers many only because we're usually scared of the process of passing on. In everything else they guide and help, offer loving light, and are conduits of sacred power when we don't feel up to any task at hand. I can say from experience that when someone gives a blessing where reality changing power is required, they do most of the work. What I think interesting is that Christ urged us to be likewise, in fact, like himself. Oh yes, regarding dreams; In dream state we're in a different level of consciousness, obviously, and so perceive things not normally done when the conscious mind is very active. Many times we're shown and told things in dreams, as prophets have been in past days. I'm sure that sometimes when our conscious mind would be scared by something which seemed too much to see in the light of ordinary day, we're offered it in dreams. That way, we can accept things on very deep emotional levels, but have the option of saying "Oh, it wasn't real you know".

Yes, I'd say that whether in physical or spirit form people/beings can be nasty and resentful, or light and pleasant. It's all a very interesting topic, but of course talk isn't experience, and listening to too much fear based talk means we live in fear, which isn't what we should do. Just as with incarnate people, those discarnate who are resentful and cruel can sometimes be helped, but more often than not have to be left to grow in their own way (or not, as they choose). What's the scripture about us not being given any more than we can deal with? I think it applies well here. I also notice in another thread someone mentioned the first thing angels say is usually, "Fear not..." Someone made of power and light our human mind can't grasp can be terrifying on first meeting, but they don't emit rage, fear, jealousy, resentment, etc. Pretty easy to feel who you're with after a moment's quiet appraisal. I have to say that I like the overall tone of not holding on to fears in these threads. Lots more reading to do though - may take me some days!

@GoodnessGracious; My normal everyday life has always included tangibly real angels/aliens (call them what we will) as well as 'dead' people who got trapped here. Though I can't prove anything, and have no reason to try, I can say that when someone becomes trapped or over-attached to this realm of being, they usually ignore bright ones who come to show them the way onward. It's all usually fear based issues. Those who can see and interact with trapped people can often help, as they're overjoyed to be acknowledged by someone in the 'real world' as they see it, but who is also aware of higher levels of being and can show them how to let go. I think sometimes we can get a bit stuck in church doctrine, which has to remain simple for various reasons, and it's obvious that what the church and church members describe is only a tiny fraction of the magical universe Christ tried to show people.

Not sure where this will lead, but I've been thinking about church again after almost twenty years away from it, and ended up on Mormon Chat last night. I don't do spiritual 'beliefs', but do have a lot of deep spiritual experience. I'm wondering if I'm just lonely(?) but have remained celibate through choice for some years, and am at the end of being bothered with alcohol. I don't feel 'lost', but guess it's time to perhaps explore the church again after it going nowhere before (and ending in divorce, loss of children, etc). What a cheery introduction! :) Anyway, I'll look around here, and maybe post if my thoughts might help or seem relevant to someone. (If you don't know, the avatar is from one of my favourite kid films, The Last Mimzy. All about the magical universe explained by a rabbit from the future and past. Feels a lot like my life at times. The nickname is just because I can only work on me, not change anyone else. Seemingly obvious, but very important).