IAmTheWork

Hi quickquestion. I posted something about porn not long ago, but have to get off now to catch a film on TV. Try the search, as there are a few threads on the topic.

I'm loosing track of posts I'm following right now, and want to watch a cool film on TV soon, so just a brief note. I love to chat about the subject of the bio-magnetic body field, as it leads so easily into the realm of spirit and what spirit is. (I responded to something regarding word definitions in another thread, where there was mention of various languages and meaning, but can't find the thread now). Anyway, more later, so fire away with thoughts as you wish.

I think I love you. Notwithstanding your man, and all... "What, you don't have a flag..?"

Thank you Angelina. Sorry, Bini... :) (I bet I get a slap for that!)

Hmm... Or rather, wow... This could get so deep. I think at the simplest level, the level Christ would no doubt have us consider, is what do we feel is right for us, and where do we go with such feelings? As you hint Backroads; how do we know whether our feelings are spiritual promptings or our emotions? Or can the two be the same? And as emotions are so close to sexual feelings, how do we fit these into our life? (This seems to be a major topic in other threads, and rightly so). To dismiss feelings as simply 'unspiritual' is simply invalidating the life experience of others in order to control them, it seems to me. I wouldn't say that this is inherent in the church as some suggest, but I've seen it happen. People are asked to 'feel the spirit', but what if the feelings they have are to steer well clear? What if the spirit is telling the person that they should pursue another life, other ways of growing? The path they're on may not necessarily be the one for them, and the lord may be telling them so. You mention testimony, and I haven't said much about that since joining this forum. So let me say that I have a knowledge of spiritual things, of angels as friends, of a mother and father who I know and love. Their personal state and power is indescribable, so I won't even try. Also, I'm not special in any way, but do know by experience that any of us can be far closer to angels and our loving parents than we're told.

Ok, broke down in fits of laughter here!! :)

I'd say that these intuitive promptings are our deep and soulful connection with the world of spirit, of true life. What freaks people out at times is when their inner promptings don't fit what people are trying to tell them. When that happens, we have to relax and gently consider why that might be, rather than grasp at straws and go for the simplest 'truth'. I think we can misinterpret spiritual promptings all too easily. For example, a church leader says something and we don't feel 'right' somehow. Does it mean he/she is wrong? Does it mean (as sometimes too many suggest) that we don't have deep enough testimony and understanding? Does it mean that we're being tempted by devilish forces? And with all of this comes, "Oh no, oh no - what do I DO?!" So, back to the OP. Prove it! Well, in spiritual matters there often isn't proof as such, and when there is to you personally, you're past caring about needing to prove anything to anyone (as are the spiritual agencies who provide you with 'proof' simply by being in your presence).

Me neither, but I suppose on that point we need to define 'faith'. I know the church definition(s), but find that by experience my own developed into this; Faith is an intuitive prompting that something may actually be true without immediate evidence or prior knowledge that it is. This makes so much more sense to me than any other definition, as it gives ownership and empowerment to the individual who is showing faith. In other words, if someone says, "This is true, and you can know it by faith", you ponder, and you feel whatever you feel. You then decide what is or might be true, not the person trying to convince you. Free agency = self-empowerment. The thing is, while the lord is called The Shepherd, he doesn't want mere sheep as his followers. I don't recall any scripture which records him saying, "Just shut up and do as you're told. You don't need to understand". In fact, that kind of talk is said to be from another agency altogether if I remember rightly. Yes, when you know, you know. Or at least you feel something only you can feel, hinting that there's truth there. It's imperative to keep those personal promptings separate from pressures from others though, because sometimes our personal intuition can be pushed onto the back burner by clever arguments.

Hey Backroads. I have to agree, not least because you said I made great points. A narcissist is a kind of flower, right..? I tend to think that 'feminism' only exists, and only needs to exist, because men and women have fallen out over things which in the eternal sense aren't important, but in the short term are struggles for power living here on earth, as we do. If you can be a strong and empowered man, or a strong and empowered woman, living with someone you love and who appreciates and adores your power for the simple joy in the sense of difference, then you'll set each other on fire in the most wonderful way. I think the church teaches that, but wonder how many couples have such joy in their day to day lives..?

@Kurt; Can I ask, in all kindness, whether you're trying to find proof of him there, or prove he was there..? Either is ok of course - none of my business - but I'm just curious. I find it fascinating too, by the way!

While I'd disagree kindly with some points you made there, I feel similarly about making assumptions. Church leaders are men (and women), and so go wrong - a lot. Should we think that because they're called to an 'exalted' office that they're near perfect? I don't think so for a minute. Should we judge them because they go wrong? I don't think so. If we decide that the church isn't all true, should we think that everything about the gospel and eternal life isn't true? I don't think so. I have another thought on women and the priesthood: They already have it. Here's my logic on this one. We hear about our heavenly father all the time, in every Christian church, because they're all to a greater or lesser degree patriarchal. What of mother? Is she a bystander, or of lesser importance? Well, there are some LDS doctrinal references which say no, of course not. But when you think about it, they don't explain or tell us much. So she's still a shadowy figure to most of us. But shadowy or hidden she is not (sorry for sounding like Yoda there!) In all cultures, a mother and father figure have been revered as gods, and parents of us all. Shakti and Shiva, The Sky Father and Earth Mother, the Sun god and Moon goddess, and so on. I know, church doctrine teaches that these beliefs are just watered down versions of the truth, lost souls hanging on to shreds of broken and mistaken remnants. Yet the mother and father of all are always there, regardless of what we think of old cultural beliefs. Prophets tell us to use our intelligence, but not to look 'beyond the mark'. In other words, don't confuddle yourself with erroneous logic. Ok, so in simple terms, the mother/father and parent/child theme is inherent in everything human. Both parents help create, and neither can do so naturally without the other. So... logically, it would suggest that in the same way our spiritual parents have equal 'power' in things. As inheritors of all powers due to our amazing family line, so do we. Not man more powerful or in authority than woman, not woman more powerful or in authority than man. Many of the powers we're taught about in church actually exist in each of us anyway. That's common sense. If there isn't a spark there can't be a fire - it's impossible. You don't make a shark fly, or a duck able to breath underwater. So, at the risk of sounding daft, let me say that men and women each have inherent spiritual powers given to us by our heavenly parents, and that both can exercise them equally and to amazing effect without either needing permission from the other. Oh, it may seem that way, and there are accounts of a priesthood holder 'giving permission' to his wife or another to perform some ordinance or healing, but did anyone ask her to give an honest account..? I suspect that in most cases she'd have said, "Yeah, well I knew I could anyway. Who needs trousers?" I understand the idea and issues of needing to have structure and organisation, but I think the issue of men and women, and who's 'in authority', is simply one of human perspective. Heavenly beings, male and female, have no axe to grind, no issues about power or authority, and one is not above or below the other. They have no feelings of oppression, and no need to 'prove themselves'. Only we do. How does all of this relate to the church and members right now? Delicately, I'd say. :)

Cricket, as the comedian Eddie Izzard would say, is an English game stolen from India in the days when twirly moustaches and a flag got you a whole country to toy with.

Haha! Crumpets, in the UK at least, are a kind of small thick pancake; Crumpets, Pikelets and English Muffins - Cake Baker (UK). Do not look up 'crumpet' online unless you have Safe Search switched on! It's also a slang word for 'woman', normally meaning scantily clad or loose...

Cheers Suzie!

@rengh; This is a very difficult topic for anyone in the church, but it's a difficult topic for those not in the church too. Unless there's something biologically wrong with us we all have sexual desires. Some more so, some less. You don't mention your age, but if you're under Methuselah's age then you'll have hormones playing a large part in keeping your curiosity alive! And even older people still have mental attachment to beauty, love, and an inner desire for physical closeness even if sex is only a memory. I think that the reactions, or expected reactions, of others don't help at times. You get responses like, "Repent, repent!" or, "It'll be ok, just study, pray and take cold showers", or whatever. In your bored moments when you have the opportunity to look at porn, that doesn't help, does it? For me, porn is boring. Not that it always was, but it quickly became so when I realised a few simple truths. One is that it's a stimulation of sexual desires we have naturally, and continuing in it for even moments can awaken powerful urges which only some sort of sexual activity can give release from in the short term. The problem with this is that we're conditional animals in one sense. As Pavlov proved with the dog, and awful experiments as well as careful research on humans has shown, when we repeat behaviour it becomes programmed into us, and we want to keep repeating it. Why do you think there are church hymns and programmes of behaviour? Why are there ritual patterns of behaviour in all walks of life? It's not just about worship, or something comforting, or organisationally needful, it's also about conditioning ourselves into accepted modes of behaviour. (Some good books on psychology and sociology are worth a read). So what does this have to do with 'porn addiction'? Well, if you watch porn and masturbate, as well as the guilt-trip you're lining yourself up for afterwards, and feeling like you're even further away from the lord, you're also conditioning your body and mind to follow the same pattern of behaviour. One of the main problems with this pattern of behaviour is that it's NOT the pattern of behaviour you want to come into play, or be a constant urge in the back of your mind, when you're with a loving sexual partner. I heard of a man, some years ago, who could only get a sexual release with his wife by making her sit in a chair naked, while he shone a torch on her and brought himself to a climax. How sad is that?! Poor guy, and poor woman too. Married in the temple, expecting bliss in life as well as beyond it, and that's how their cosy nights were spent. I didn't condemn him, but could see how such warped behaviour could happen. Not that I'm saying you'll go that way, but there is at least one other thread about sexual urges and porn on these forums (and darned healthy it is to be able to discuss it in a respectful way, too). I'm not shocked by porn, but I don't bother looking for it either, and I've been celibate for more than six years. What, no urges..? Sure, but when I see porn, all I see are people trying to make easy money, women 'enhancing' (ie., wrecking) their bodies to conform to very twisted expectations, and even worse, people being humiliated and abused even if they mostly appear to be willing participants. I don't know all the answers. Some say that if sex were much more open and easy to access then people wouldn't be so messed up. Some say everything should be hidden away behind closed doors. Nothing people try seems to work, so may I suggest that when Christ said live a good, kind and loving life, he meant to treat ourselves well, and care for others so that we can have decent and honest relationships. I agree that talking to your bishop further may help, but perhaps make it a bit on your terms too, so you don't feel so humiliated in doing so. He'll understand if he's a half decent guy and a half decent bishop. Some people in church feel downtrodden because they've given away all of their own power to authority, but there's no need to fight; just ask and it shall be given. Ask if he'll spend an hour with you somewhere away from the chapel, maybe go for a walk, or whatever. Ask him to share his thoughts and feelings from when he was in the throes of desire, and see what he offers. More importantly - and I mean this honestly - sit quietly and ask the lord and the spirit. Ask to be given feelings and intuition about the part sex plays in our lives. Even ask the lord what he felt when as a young man he saw some achingly beautiful young woman's skirts blow up in the wind on a warm day. Seriously; the lord is not some unapproachable, untouchable being who finds our earthly lives too distasteful to consider any more. You may even get spiritual promptings which make you laugh - I know I have at times! A long post - sorry, got my typing fingers on today. :)

@DeborahC; Very good points. I'm allergic to most chemicals and perfumes, as well as food additives. All are hard to get away from completely nowadays, but testing out by removing various things and watching the results over time works well. Chigung (and Taichi) don't work just due to increased blood flow, by the way, though that's certainly one aspect which results in many benefits. The actual change is in the subtle energy of the person doing the exercise, the strengthening of what some health experts call the bio-magnetic body field. That can become quite a deep and interesting topic, so I won't ramble on unless anyone wants to discuss it further.

Ok, false flag! :) I've decided to stick around, and stop worrying too much about not being totally Church-PC if you know what I mean. As I said, I don't think arguing scriptural or doctrinal points is of any use at all in discovering truth, and is (to me) a real waste of time. However, there's a lot more than that going on in these forums, and some very thoughtful people I perhaps shouldn't miss out on talking with. As I just mentioned to a moderator, if I say anything which seems to go against church doctrine, then of course respond however you feel is appropriate. But I also don't want anyone being concerned that an anti-church influence is trying to creep in under the wire! Perhaps I'm a bit over-sensitive to these things, but I've noticed real anxiousness in members elsewhere (face to face) when they feel that their beliefs are being challenged simply because rational discussion may not agree with doctrine. Whatever - it's all live and learn, eh?

Hi. I've decided not to start attending church again, for various reasons. I won't list them here, as I have wish to influence others, nor be thought to be trying to. I also won't be visiting and posting on these forums either, as discussions of opinion and/or 'facts' as perceived by those feeling the need to make their point known seem a waste of good life time to me! My thanks to those who've offered their thoughts on things I have posted, and I wish you all a wonderful journey through life in your search for genuine truth and peace. Don't waste a minute of it, because it's flying by! With love.

Well, you won't do any damage in the short term, so don't let me put you off copying movements from videos. There should be plenty of easy chigung videos on YouTube and such sites. The problems arise if someone learns bad posture and movement, and practices in that way for a long time, ie., months or years. Also, because many people expect to get 'value for money' when paying for classes, books and videos, they can sometimes be a little over complicated, or feature a lot of things you may not need to know or practice. Many Chinese masters have said that just practising the very basic chigung exercises daily will make one a master in time. I find it true that just the basics done well produce wonderful results in improving health and feeling good.

An old thread, but this might be interesting to someone; My Taichi teacher years ago told me that the Chinese word 'chi' can mean different things depending upon the context in which it's used. So it may mean breath, energy, spirit, light, and such. (It's usually pronounced more like 'zhi'). The Japanese 'ki' is the same, as is Hebrew 'ruach' (perhaps a more phonetic spelling?) the Latin 'spiritus', and the Greek 'pneuma'. It's obvious to see that in translation from one language to another, the word for 'energy' might be taken to mean 'ghost', and so on. But then translations offer a huge potential for errors, and not just in what single words may mean.

Remember the old Eastern saying; "He who angers you, controls you". If we take offence at things on behalf of others, whether the lord, ufo pilots, or physicists :) then we'll be continually angered, and thus controlled by the very people who want us to rise to the bait. I can certainly see the gap between spiritually minded souls and hedonists widening all the time. While it can be saddening to think of those who 'fall by the wayside' being helped to do so by things like this, I think those with a spark inside see it for what it is.

@Mahone, I am likewise confuzzled! I suppose while the tax evasion and low pay issues remain, and people continue to feel guilt about not tipping, it will continue and poor gorgeous people will suffer. In fact, after reading through an online newspaper while browsing here this morning, it occurs to me that those reasons may be why we've seen such an upsurge in good looking 'wannabes' having plastic surgery and stripping at the slightest opportunity in order to become 'famous'..? As the old sages said, good looks can be a curse. Me, I'm very blessed!

My first thoughts are that it's due to differences in cultures and times. The early apostles lived in a very patriarchal society of course, where for a woman to stand up and speak out would in most cases be seen as unacceptable boldness, and most certainly in the synagogue. Heck, even until fairly recent times here the Rule Of Thumb was still a recorded law, where a man could beat his wife with a rod only if it was no thicker than his thumb. (I wonder how many men were battered in their sleep with the milking stool..?!) Personally, I like the company of happy and strong women, but not strident ones with agendas. And I like the company of happy and strong men, but not strident ones with agendas.

Happy New Year from England!

I had a read of a well known anti-Mormon site perhaps a year ago, having found a link to it at random. When I posted a few messages disagreeing with some of the vitriol being spouted there, I found that some responded in a friendly and positive way, while others got worse in their attacks on the LDS church. Many, I noticed, had issues such as abuse by family or church members, and seemed to be trying to burn the church down because of that. Needless to say, I didn't frequent it often or for long; far too depressing. That banned (YouTube vid?) cartoon looked really childish and silly to me when I came across it in recent weeks, and it in fact made me realise how much of the church teachings still mesh with my thoughts and experience (or vice-versa). Sometimes others shouting loudly enough about something can make themselves look very foolish, and give people food for thought in the opposite direction to what they intended. Regarding the OP, I think it's important not to become paranoid and see everyone who doesn't appear to 'fit the mould' as a potential enemy. Communism and other ideologies grew and fell in on themselves due to just such paranoia. Not that I'm seeing that here though - it's just a thought. In fact I awoke in horror early this morning with the realisation that I'd used an acronym which was far from polite in any forum, let alone an LDS one. (I genuinely thought it was short for something innocent). Pam kindly changed it without booting me off. But then the topic is insidious attack rather than open abuse which is easy to spot. I always wonder, where does the line between healthy and open thought blur into someone who doesn't understand or like it accusing someone of 'thought crime'..? The glory of god is intelligence, but sometimes the intelligence we think we have can lead us into false logic, and being scared of things which may only exist in our imagination, don't you think? Oh, and to part of the OP again, I find that where I live in the UK most people talk about Mormons very little, and usually with a small shrug, as though it's just 'some other thing' like JW's, and so on. I've heard nothing derogatory in as long as I can remember.