elinz

As a newbie, I know I can't confirm or deny such things. Why is it that the contentious issues always seem to be the ones that are way out on the extreme frontier of doctrines? The motivation of the people who want to "discover" the secret evil deception seems funny. It reminds me a little of the way people today want so desperately to prove that Bush intentionally lied about WMD. Information was less than perfect, but the truth was that whether the exact items were in place or not is less important than the overall character of the threat. It's possible to be such a perfectionist that you arrive at the wrong conclusion because a detail trips you up. There's even a name for using this as a weapon: FUD : Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. In war the goal is to get the enemy to experience FUD because it does not allow them to complete any thoughts. The enemy becomes paralyzed. To be a leader requires the ability to look beyond the static in order to see the larger picture. Anyway, go can go back to calling each other morons now...

Evolution? I think it's more like in the BoM. People struggle to comprehend, they achieve success, they get spoiled, lose their sight and then are at risk of destruction. Then it starts all over again, and again... It's not linear.

The "beast" is a lion?

"Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man." What if the lion was the Romans? Anyone who goes "secular" is cursed. Any Roman that opens their eyes to God is blessed.

I don't know, it seems to me that everything must past the internal prayer view eventually. And I agree with the unity vision, real knowlege returns us to unity and not the other way around. (contention really does lead to diverging opposites: vs. )

That's why I was being cautious about the original articleblasting the weird quirks that crop up in religious circles. The worts and wrinkles are true and annoying and need to be improved, but focusing on them publically only adds to the ammo of the secularists. The battle is not sect vs. sect. The battle is spiritual awareness (of any kind or degree) vs. the spiritually blind. The spiritually blind will through their blindness allow what feels good to destroy them. That's all I was trying to get across...

Jesus said,"Blessed is the lion which becomes man when consumed by man; and cursed is the man whom the lion consumes, and the lion becomes man." I don't understand it either....

Well it's too bad they hadn't been a little bit more considerate of how people would take what they wrote 2000 years into the future

Sorry, the biggest hill is about 50 ft high.It's basically flat with slight rolls here and there. No ocean, no mountains, muddy lakes... Paradise? ...for plants!

I was trying to get across the idea of "creep". You've probably heard this story before: "If you place a frog into a pot of water at room temperature and slowly heat the water the frog will stay in all the way until the poor thing dies" "But if you throw a frog into a pot of boiling water it will jump right out because it can sense the change" That's sort of how the US is now, we let things creep slowly further and further to the point at which the nation will eventually fall apart. Some stories repeat themselves many times... B)

This brings up a good point: If you knew that someone were secretly and systematically killing people and yet they were doing it in such a stealthy manner that you could never prove it in court. What would you do? If it were the mafia you would need to train special agents to go undercover and gather enough evidence to be able to convict the person. But what if the "killing" was done by getting people to make choices that would destroy their reproductive system. And it was done in full view so that no undercover agent could get anything that wasn't visible. Now it gets harder. You have to convince others that what is accepted as "normal" for the day is actually about as real as the "Emperers Clothes". Then what can you do? If you speak up you look like a fool. If you don't, another person "dies". Sometimes things are not as they seem... B)

The Gospel of Thomas: http://amminadab.com/temple/gnosis/thomas1.htm My understanding is that the Nag Hammadi does more to affirm the ideas of the LDS Church than go against them. It adds proof to the idea that the primative church was destroyed so that the Roman church could dominate.

I'm living in Missouri. My house is about 10 miles from the Temple Lot. The winters are cold and usually without much snow. The summers are so hot and humid to the point you can't do anything but go to the pool or stay indoors. And it rains a lot. Plus I nearly got hit by a tornado last year. The only thing good about Missouri is that the soil is about 8 feet of pure clay and the crops get all the water they need to grow. Plants love Missouri, but why would people? The joke goes "It's not Missouri, it's Misery" Oh, and everyone is fat and deeply into vices like drinking and smoking. So this is paradise?

I've never met the angry gay hater before. Since I lived in San Francisco and grew up in California (third generation) the gay lifestyle is as dominant there as the LDS church is on Utah. So I've never experienced anti-gay people. How do you know so much? Or are you simply being "theoretical" in your ideas? Is all the gay bashing as real as the gay media likes to portray it? What if it's not really that bad?

Absolutely!

You might be too close to it. I'm not of the church originally. Most of my life has been spent in secular society without any religious connections. My family never went to church. I'm impressed by the BoM because it does describe some deep and subtle traits that people fall into. Forget the factual stuff, that is of small importance. The reality of life is that people will inevitably find ways to hurt themselves by not paying attention to things that should be obvious. It's human nature to be dumb. Think of a teenager, the drive to create a separate identity is much stronger than truth itself. Reasoning to a teenager is pointless. Hormones dominate all their thoughts. That condition opens the door for a cruel and "wise to the world' person to swoop down and exploit them. Open your eyes to the messed up world we have in the cities and even the suburbs. Lots of the kids now are so confused they don't really even know what sex they are anymore. The BoM is a great tale of the price of sin... DEATH! America is all messed up. Until you see the truth before your eyes the story will be just a story. It's only the wise that can understand. Being older helps. There's no way I would have understood the deeper meaning when I was in my 20's or 30's. You need to learn what evil and hell really is. (I know where you could go )

But I bet the father is a little more proud of him now than before. Mel used to live the celebrity lifestyle. That had to have been dissapointing for the father despite all his son's fame and fortune.

Well, if you're Catholic all it takes is a confession. But if you're LDS you're expected to do it the hard way and actually change your ways. So I guess being Catholic is like being a heroin addict that chooses to stay on a methadone program rather than quitting...

Here's that Scientific American Article about Addiction: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa...78A83414B7F0101

There is no evidence so far that a "gay gene" is really even valid. The gay groups invented the idea in order to gain political capital. It's a big fat myth so far. Sin, is simply error. Addictions are errors that you can't stop repeating. So in a sense homosexuality is a sin. Do you get the thought process? When homosexuality involves rape it takes the sin up a notch. Not only have you damaged yourself, but now you're polluting the rest of the population.

I agree, the Diane Sawyer interview went well except for the section involving his father. Mel is human too. It did seem like a little bit of a character assassination the way they presented it. "Mel Gibson, the secretive son of an anti-semite" "What does he have to hide?" (is what was implied)

Tao, you're funny! You completely skipped past the core truth of my posting. Homosexuality shows all the charactoristics of being an addiction. Addictions are hard to break, but to begin to create a mythology about homosexuality as some "grand identity" is simply flawed. Homosexuality is a rationalization for behavior! B)

People keep referring to a Barbara Walters interview with Mel Gibson. Are we really talking about Diane Sawyer? Primetime Special Edition ABC 12 Feb 16 09:00pm Special/Other, 60 Mins. "Mel Gibson's Passion" Director Mel Gibson discusses the controversy surrounding his film, "The Passion of the Christ''; Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League, shares his views on Gibson's film. Original Airdate: February 16, 2004. Or did Barbara Walters have here own at another time?

Isn't the idea of an eternal and unchanging doctrine something that the LDS church does not support? My understanding is that new revelation is how doctrine is changed. The "newest" revelation might be about how the brain has a pleasure center that lays down pathways after a pleasurable experience. A gambler gets "hooked" on a positive feeling and is just as addicted as a smoker who uses a chemical. Homosexuality is thus like being a gambler. Once "hooked" the physical pathways in the brain are essentially permanent. So, while people are not born gay, they might acquire the addiction if there is sufficient repeated behavior even if it's just mental imaging. Homosexuality is just a bad addiction... B) (see this months Scientific American)

Yeah, I was talking about the independent filmmakers.Mel Gibson is an independent, but he created a film that defines the Catholic perspective. I'm just not sure they're mutually exclusive. Catholics obsess about the cross, while the LDS folks focus on the teachings. Need there be a monopoly? Or is the crucifiction so shocking that it will scare anyone away from being / thinking like Jesus? Is that the real Catholic message? "Think like Jesus and this is what you get!"