Yehshen
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Posts posted by Yehshen
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Wow, EarlJibbs is very kind.
I am abashed that my original reaction was not quite that kind.
I wouldn't like someone bringing a gift. I would try not to show my dislike, and simply put the gift away for later, without making a big deal of it. The thing would be to quietly thank the giver, without giving undue attention to the gift (which might make the other non-gift givers uncomfortable, when they were following directions.
Debrarae
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My parents are dead, but I'm sure they would have reacted negatively to my conversion. Certainly, pretty much every one of my friends did .....although there was vast differences in the negative reactions. Anything from shunning to gentle amusement.
I think all of the reactions are just due to folks being protective and cautious....and there is a good bit of misinformation out there, and that's not even including the anti-mormon literature. One of my closes friends (an evangelical protestant) refused - she would say REFUSED - to attend my baptism because she would not enter a mormon church and fall prostrate in worship of Joseph Smith).
(Her opinion remained unchanged when I tried to tell her that I hadn't seen anyone doing that). Still, it's been six months, and even she is smoothing out - well somewhat. She is no longer shunning me, but rather standing by to be there when I come to my senses. :) And yes, her actions did hurt.
I guess the more practical question that I still need to resolve is how much do I confide? A week ago I went to the temple (about 70 minutes away) and did baptisms. Where was I, some asked. What was I doing? Still don't have a good answer - somehow silence doesn't seem right - ideally I would remain authentic.
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Thanks..have seen that book on LDS website will have another look at that...I printed off the leaflets but not that.
Have you only just been baptised then? How long did it take you to get to that stage?
It took me about six months from when I started reading about the religion (last May) and when I was baptized (I believe November 23, 2011). My timing...not the church's. I think the first official meeting with missionaries was in September. Other people, I'm sure, will report dramatically different timetables.
They say to pray and you will be told whether the BOM was true. I knew by July. But still, it's a big commitment, and I wanted to be sure.
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I think you'd get different answers from everyone here. Some would say read the Book of Mormon straight through. I didn't like doing that ... I wanted more of a summary approach. I would read
1) the Articles of Faith (quick summary of gospel that is considered doctrine)
2) the book (wirebound) the missionaries actually teach from called "Preach My Gospel". You can download from the LDS web site.
3) And believe it or not, Mormonism for Dummies by Jena Reis and Christopher Kimble (my apologies if mispelled names). This book is actually deeper than it sounds, but it is remarkably user friendly, and the writers are pretty well respected.
Although warning: I just joined the church 5 months ago, so what do I know?
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Or, on the other hand, you could just study and live the Mormon doctrines. Lots of internet resources, and dialog with people here. I guess the strict doctrinal belief requires baptism, but we all need to go at our own pace.
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Congratulations on finding the church.
I'm very shy (probably not as severely as your experiences), and so it took me a while to be willing to sit down with missionaries. Would talking on the phone be more comfortable to you? Or e-mail? The church does use internet missionaries (I only discovered this when I called and asked for BOM to be sent to my PO Box, and refused to give my home address).
Still, part of the fun for me of church membership is the experience of community that I get going to church.
I suggest that you explain up front to the internet missionary how you feel. Maybe they can work out some way for a local member to accompany you to church, to answer questions quietly at your pace. If you just walk in and attend (which you are certainly encouraged to do), you will probably be greeted very enthusiastically - but maybe you would be more comfortable with someone who you had met beforehand.
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Timpman:
1. First of all, I want you to know I am very worried about you and hope you go and get professional help ASAP. I don't think you want to die, I think you want to live, as evidenced by your concern about your wife and kids, about doing a good job, about not taking off because you are up for promotion.
2. Drugs, when properly prescribed, can work wonders for some people. Some drugs numb, although isn't depression a form of numbing. You need someone to deal with you and your needs today, even though you may have seen (what?) 10 mental health professionals in past.
3. Talking to people is also good, and I'll keep reading this thread as long as you wish to keep talking. But I'm going to be _____ (you fill in word) if you disappear and I wonder whether you offed yourself.
4. I've been depressed in the past, but it passes. I grant you that chronic, debillitating depression may take longer to abate, but still don't use suicide to solve a temporary problem.
5. And Vort's statement of suicide affecting other people is absolutely right. Suicide is a form of abandonment: abandonment of yourself, abandonment of your wife and kids, and abandonment of your agency.
OK, rant for the night ended. Please take care of yourself.
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Are you active in your church? Is there anyone there you feel comfortable talking to?
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So do you have a plan now?
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He's non-committal about choosing a Protestant religion... I think he would prefer no church at all. But I'm getting mixed messages from him.
I don't think he would ever go to any church alone, but I also don't think he wants us going without him.
After Christmas I was taking the kids to mutual night, while he was still at work- Im always driving them to some evening activity, and he often works until 8 or 9. When we would come home, the kids happy and enthusiastic, he would ask where we were and then get sulky about it as if I were sneaking around behind his back. He feels that this is a threat to him somehow. So I backed off of that for a while, but now the kids are confused.
He also said he wouldn't like it of the kids were baptized lds and he wasn't. But is not willing to compromise his integrity and be baptized into a religion that would deny him coffee... Which he adamantly defends his right to enjoy.
Then week & 1/2 ago, he announced that the 13 year old needed a "Mormon intervention", and we then watched 2 days of general conference. He actually seemed to enjoy it! But then I got excited and asked him how we should go about the intervention, he said he was kidding.
And as a follow up, I delayed my baptism for at least 2 months because I didn't like the prohibition on coffee, because it made no sense to me. I actually said it didn't make sense at a meeting with the missionaries where the bishop attended (and my timing was indeed deliberate - I wanted to see exactly how much commotion I would create). Well the missionaries and several others are pawing dramatically through their quads, and someone else is looking for a study that documented health benefits, and the bishop stopped all discussion and said that doesn't matter...that is such a small part of the church. (Not sure if he'd want me quoting him around the ward).
It was several months after baptism that the coffee issue suddenly made sense, and I mostly don't miss it.
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Here's my thought:
why do you need to be baptized in the church right away?
What if you and your kids start attending on a regular basis, and try to live the Mormon lifestyle (in other words continue reading scripture, living word of wisdom, and perhaps even approaching the bishop and asking for more involvement in ward than the typical investigator).
Avoids potential disagreement on baptism with husband, gets you involved in the church, and lets him observe gradually and maybe grow more accepting.
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Hi:
I just read your post. I'm sorry you are feeling badly. Please don't take the general conference statement personally.
My questions to you: are you a perfectionist? I know some psychologists consider depression a feeling of self-hate. I wonder if you are expecting too much of yourself and don't see the good part of you.
I hear you that you are basically ok, just blue. But I'm wondering if you are seeing yourself as others see you. A good friend of mine committed suicide last fall. He was brilliant, kind, extremely well respected, had a magnificent testimony (actually was reason I converted), and tons of friends and family. I'm helping to settle the estate, and have now reviewed some of his private writings. He saw himself differently...(all bad).
So, please try something for me. Take care of yourself the way you would recommend that some else treat themself. The dialetic therapy...I'm not too familiar with it...I think it involves reframing thought patterns in a way that could be helpful.
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I have something of a different take on anti-mormon literature. I spent the last 8 months investigating the church before converting last November. During this period, I deliberately sought out and read a lot of anti-mormon literature, and, on balance, it helped me make the decision to convert. At times, I was hoping the anti-mormon stuff would be convincing, but oh well.
I was shocked, one month into my membership, to hear in Relief Society a young twenty something woman say with real fear in her voice that her brother was reading anti-mormon literature and voice fear that his faith might be weakened. I chose not to say anything, but my reaction is, how can anyone say their faith is strong without reading the counter arguments?
To address the OP's question, there are different types of anti-mormon literature, including
a. Well meaning: such as warning folks the church doesn't define scripture as just the 2 books of the bible or the church is non-trinidarian (I think that's a word - but it's certainly mispelled). Yep - that's right.
b. to recruit folks away from the Mormon church - well, again, ok, as long as language isn't deceptive
c. to recruit folks away from the church using horrible lies or well designed deception - actually, this is the only stuff I truly consider anti-mormon, and this can be truly vicious. There is one site called something like what mormons truly believe, and it lists approximately 25 things that mormon believes, starting with accurate truths, becoming slightly incorrect, and morphing into hugh mischaracterizations.
d. sites dealing with historical accuracy = such as long diatribes on why horses should not be in the BOM. I'm glad I am aware of that point of view = but does it change my belief? No.
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My VT has only come by once since I was baptized. Maybe every other month or so she'll call on the phone. Actually, that's fine by me. I have enough on my plate. My HT are as regular as clockwork, so that's enough visiting for me.
I've been reading this thread with interest. I do my VT regularly; my VTs visit me regularly. The HT, however, does not visit regularly. His first and only visit was with the person finishing the new members lessons, and he is memorable because he didn't even give me contact information such as phone/e-mail.
Is this experience typical?
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So, I am a new visiting teacher. I visit 3 active sisters, and one house that is inactive. They don't (supposedly mom and 2 adult daughters) come to church; but moreover, they don't agee to home visits, don't take phone calls, but supposedly have said that they enjoy letters. So, I write letters every month, but really don't know what to say. Anyone have any suggestions/insight?
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I really enjoyed your summary.
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I'm not going to debate the wisdom of this rule. However, I am a 50 something single woman who joined the church last November. This rule substantially interfered with scheduling meetings with missionaries, as our ward had no sister missionaries. And no one explained it to me. I couldn't figure out why there were all these last minute cancellations of appointments, and frankly thought the missionaries were either very disorganized or didn't really care.
Well, and then I found out what the deal was, and for the first time in my life wondered if I was really a cougar...if maybe I was inadvertently sending out these sexual signals. And then I told my non-member friends, and we all laughed.
So, my point is that if the rule is out there, it might be good to let the investigators know about it.
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I apologize - I feel really stupid asking this question, and I suspect its less doctrine and more culture.
I joined the Church late last year, and I think I have a pretty good idea of doctrine, but then someone goes and says something and I don't get the point. So the discussion involved the holy ghost, and how even doing minor transgressions made it more difficult to receive messages from the holy ghost. Ok. Got it.
So the fellow leading the class said "So, it would be like, if you can imagine, my stopping off at 7-Eleven on my way to church and having a diet coke."
What? Is he worried about being late to church? Diet coke isn't a violation of the word of wisdom, is it? Is it worse to drink diet coke on Sunday? Is the problem buying the diet coke? What if he needed gas?
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Certainly all of the recommendations for prayer and referral to scripture are appropriate....
but wow, consider that maybe you are expecting too much of yourself and now is the time to treat yourself kindly. I had two major surgeries about 2 years ago, and it's only been within the past six months that I've felt back to myself again.
I stopped cooking after the surgery because it was too tiring to stand at the stove and lift the heavy pots/pans. I stopped going to the grocery store because walking the length of the store, then standing in line for 10 minutes, was too tiring.
I think this experience is normal, and we tend to discount because we think we should automatically bounce back.
PS - are you asking for help (I didn't, and I should have).
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UH OH. I'm a new convert of six weeks, and your description sounds like me, ....and I just got a calling. Maybe my bishop read your post! :)
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I've been reading all of the discussion on this thread, and wanted to throw my perspective out there. I just joined the church, after investigating for 6 months or so.
First, you should not be baptized until you are ready. The missionary's goal is to baptize as many people as soon as they are ready. That is not your goal. Your goal is to make sure you are ready. I worked with two or three sets of companions as they changed out over 6 months; some were better than others (for me). It probably was a combination of personality fit, my readiness, and how the missionaries read the signals I was throwing out.
(And by the way, I definitely was throwing out mixed messages), as I vacillated between "gee, this sounds cool, and really really familiar" and "this is crazy".
A couple of thoughts: did the missionaries invite other members of the ward to your lessons? I really felt having a third party there helped, because I didn't feel as pushed to make commitments. Every time the missionaries asked me for a commitment I took a step backward. The elders who somehow figured this out and backed off were the ones that eventually heard me say, ok, schedule the baptism.
Do you know that once you are baptized,they repeat the same lessons again, with a little more depth? I found my learning continued more after baptism...not sure whether church members were more willing to commit to teaching me (probably) or whether I was more receptive (again probably).
And somebody alluded to the fact that once someone gets close to baptism, the "adversary" - I think that was the wording - gets busy and creates barriers. OK, now frankly, I don't believe the devil does this. I refuse to believe this. Except:
It was 2 weeks between the time I agreed to be baptised and the scheduled date. Those were the worst two weeks of my life. The self doubt....buyer's remorse, if you will, really set in. I had major problems sleeping, everything went wrong, at work, at home, weird things happened with friends. That continued throughout the night of the baptism: I literally sat in my car outside the church and debated whether to go in. The doubt - poof - went away immediately at baptism and I felt a tremendous peace.
So, you need to be sure you want to be baptised when you say it, because I suspect you will have some self doubt, and maybe that's what you are feeling right now. But I wanted to share my experience. Take the time you need.
Is There a Lawyer in the House?
in Advice Board
Posted
I will ditto what JustAGuy said: This isn't legal advice, just food for thought. I'm not licensed anywhere but Utah; and even if you're in Utah I don't practice landlord/tenant law.
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Well, except I'm not in Utah, but rather in one of the other 49 states.
Everything depends: on the landlord tenant statutes, on exactly what the lease says, and even the custom in your area. And it doesn't take much to run up a legal bill that exceeds the cost of your dispute.
You might consider asking the legal clinic what happens if you pay the bill by check and write on the back of the check "Paid under dispute." Ask the legal clinic if that preserves your rights... it might or might not.
You might also consider complaining to your local government, particularly if you have an elected representative. They get calls like this all the time, and I bet this problem is bugging more people than just you. You might also want to check your local consumer affairs office or Attorney General's Office for alternative dispute resolution services. (I wouldn't bother with the Better Business Bureau, though. Their effectiveness is generally limited to the businesses who belong).
Finally, this should have been first, I assume you have already tried to work this out with the business? I mean, by formal letter directed to the company president, and not just a phone call to the office help? If you do that, make sure you stress your timely rental payments and that you are good tenants (if true).