predator

Well he was. You probably aren't even LDS. No - you used it to explain how the Mormon God, or rather LDS revelations from God change and are not consistent. I posted your exact quotes in context. If you didn't do it deliberately, you didn't through a purposeful disregard for accuaracy - that the truth is secondary to you making a point. If you are going to go on the attack, better be prepared to back up your claims. And your point is what? That being a leader makes you perfect? If you are dishonest and inaccurate, why on earth do you whine when someone observes that you are dishonest and inaccurate. Be honest, be accurate, ask a question, and I try and answer. No one, except maybe Diana Krall or Astrud Gilberto is special.I have a superior knowledge of LDS history compared to you. That's relevant because we are discussing LDS history. Egads - no you are a victim too. Grow a spine. either the prophets got different revelations or one or both of them made it up. I personally think god CANNOT change his mind. Why am i even bothering.Im done trying to explain things to you because you will just respond with more attacks and act like a bully. you still have failed to address anything, keep resorting to personal attacks. No need to respond because i wont respond to you no more. From now on your on my ignore list. actually i think i will take my questions to the fair messageboard. Good job snow you win.

Do you just make this stuff up out of thin air? (answer: yes) Now you are claiming that Bruce R. McConkie received a revelation that that blacks couldn't hold the priesthood in this life. Do you imagine that at least some of us readers don't know that you aren't being honest when you claim such? where did i state mcconkie recieved a revelation? I can see how you misinterpret it and perhaps its my fault (english isnt my first language) Here ill give you more quotes from bringham young a prophet of the church. “Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291) “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110) now this was his stance back then. The prophet now does not feel the same way no more and the churches stance is different. The thing that bothers me is that the prophet of today can change any doctrine through new revelations. Who knows what he will change next. If people on this board dont believe me thats fine. However if i put a quote i always put where i got it from. People here can look it up for themselves (in fact thats what i encourage people to do) btw: you still havent answered anything. Just resorted to attack and question my honesty. speaking of which....you have not looked up what I said either......but thats ok.... i did look it up (website) but not enough to where i could make a response here. I have now. the articles were a very good read. I was happy to see some questions that ive been pondering answered in this article. I am checking out the FAIR website now and its very interesting. http://blacklds.org/mormon/mauss.html#en1 here is a little quote from that article "Q: But don't Mormons believe that their Church is led by prophets of God? How could prophets have permitted racist ideas and practices to become part of their religion? A: Prophets are not perfect and don't claim to be; nor do they always act as prophets in what they say and do.15 People in all ages, including those who become prophets, grow up without questioning much that is assumed by everyone else in their respective cultures, unless some experience motivates them to seek revelation on a given matter."

First you said: "Now to make things worst the mormon god changes his mind." Then you clarified: "I said god changes his mind because of the new revelations given by the new prophets. I personally dont think God CAN change his mind. Bruce R mckonkie isnt the only person to talk like that. I can find more racist quotes. Please explain to me why god gives different revelations to prophets?" Now you are pretending like you didn't say it. as far as i know MCconkie wasnt a prophet. I used his quote as an example of a racist remark from a church leader. I wasnt trying to imply that he was a prophet and that he recieved a revelation from god. Reading my quote again it appears that way. It was not my intent. However it is still a racist "opinion" from a leader. im glad he apologized for it later. again you are just resorting to personal attacks. You still have not attacked my questions. just because you were one of the first members here doesnt make you any more special than me. You might respond? dont act like you are superior to me because you are not. I got judged enough at church growing up i dont need to take it from you as well.

Do you just make this stuff up out of thin air? (answer: yes) Now you are claiming that Bruce R. McConkie received a revelation that that blacks couldn't hold the priesthood in this life. Do you imagine that at least some of us readers don't know that you aren't being honest when you claim such? where did i state mcconkie recieved a revelation? I can see how you misinterpret it and perhaps its my fault (english isnt my first language) Here ill give you more quotes from bringham young a prophet of the church. “Cain slew his brother....and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the FLAT NOSE AND BLACK SKIN...” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pages 290-291) “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110) now this was his stance back then. The prophet now does not feel the same way no more and the churches stance is different. The thing that bothers me is that the prophet of today can change any doctrine through new revelations. Who knows what he will change next. If people on this board dont believe me thats fine. However if i put a quote i always put where i got it from. People here can look it up for themselves (in fact thats what i encourage people to do) btw: you still havent answered anything. Just resorted to attack and question my honesty.

Oh - so now you're singing a different tune. Before you said that it was GOD that was changing his mind. Now you are saying that Bruce R. McConkie had an opinion that turned out to be wrong (that he later apologized for and said that he was mistaken). Like I said, you don't appear to know much about LDS doctrine and history. No wonder your confused. Got angry? Now that sounds interesting. How was this anger manifest? Did they yell at you? Did they toliet paper your house? Did they kill your pet goat? I said god changes his mind because of the new revelations given by the new prophets. I personally dont think God CAN change his mind. Bruce R mckonkie isnt the only person to talk like that. I can find more racist quotes. Please explain to me why god gives different revelations to prophets? You still havent done this. you just beat around the bush. (apostleknight at least gave a good explanation, although i dont agree with it). Just continue making jokes and question my knowledge on the LDS doctrine and history. Whatever makes you feel better.

dont mind the questions at all. Im 21.

my mom believes in god and my dad doesnt (he is those science guys who wants proof). They stated to me about a year ago that the only reason they converted to LDS was because they thought the church would be a good influence on me and my 3 older brothers (one of which who was always getting in fights at school at the time) she was right it was a great influence on us and i to this day think there is a lot of good in the LDS church. after we all grew up my parents left it up to us whether we wanted to attend church or not (my brothers had just turned 17-18 and i was around 13). My dad studied the church, the books, the teachings and always had problems with it. when i started going back to the church on my own and asked him questions regarding the church (polygamy, racism, etc) he would tell me to do my own research and come up with my own conclusion. I did that.

Were you raised in the church? How long have you been a member? Why would you join a church whose "founder" you consider to be a false prophet? Aspects of your post make me wonder if you're just posing as an LDS to gain street cred here. Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means. i was raised a catholic until i was 6 years old. We never attended church regularly and i dont remember much about the church. we converted when i was 7, i got baptised when i turned 8. we were active until i was 13 or so. I then returned to the church on my own (parents never returned) when i was 15. I got really involved, made some great friends and was happy. I however was one of those kids who questions everything. After a while i was looked upon as a troublemaker and people questioned my faith. I would respond by saying that im trying to get faith. I tried really hard. Thnigs like men holding the priesthood and women not being able really bothered me. When i starting working they asked for tithing money, i refused. I was working to help my family (at the time we were in bad shape financially) and they got angry with me. They said it was gods money and its a small price to pay for the blessings and good health god has given me. They would bring it up a lot and i felt wrong not paying. I never did pay a penny. sorry for the rant i could go on but i dont think this is the thread for that. to get to the point i learned a lot of things about the church from church doctrine (book of mormon, doctrine and conenants, journal of discourses, etc) and listened to former members giving me reasons on why they left. I wanted to learn more about the church, the history, and i felt the best way to learn was to question everything. Technically im an LDS, however im not active and dont believe in a lot of LDS beliefs. I shouldnt call myself LDS. From now on i wont.

snow- Oh - the drama! snow- As opposed to what you would do? .... disobeying what you think God wants. That's an odd position to take. me- I dont know what god wants. People all over the world claim to know what god wants and many times it leads to wars. snow- Oh - more drama. That's good. How about this. God potentially could say that we should make french fries out of sugar beets and put pencils in our noses. The horror! How could a diety be some bizarre? Certainly God does not exist. me- I personally believe in god. I however dont think he is involved in our lives. I try and live a moral life. I dont think we need god to tell us what is wrong and what is right. snow- Dumb point. Mormons don't believe that God changes his mind. me- so prophets change their mind then? Joseph smith said polygamy was good. fact. hinkley has said polygamy is wrong. fact. Who is right then? could god have told both prophets what they claim? its a contradiction snow- No wonder you are searching in vain for a reason to return to the Church. You don't understand LDS doctrine or history. me- apparently you dont. Really? Proof please. cant find exact quote for that, but here is another racist quotes. btw church not allowing blacks priesthood until 1978. fact Church leader Bruce R. McConkie, on the denial of equality for Africans: “NEGROES IN THIS LIFE ARE DENIED THE PRIESTHOOD; under NO circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation IS NOT CARRIED AFFIRMATIVELY TO THEM... “NEGROES ARE NOT EQUAL WITH OTHER RACES WHERE THE RECEIPT OF CERTAIN SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS ARE CONCERNED...” (Mormon Doctrine, 1958, p. 477)

Well we know that smith had a revelation where god told him to practice polygamy. Its in sections 132 of doctrine and covenants. line 60, 61 get straight to the point and you can look it up in the churches website. Actually heres the link http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132. I have been a lurker here for some time because to tell you the truth im looking for a reason to go back to the lds church. I just cannot go back after finding out information like d & c sec 132. I am posting today because your mentality scares me. You will obey whatever you think god wants you to do. You would have been a polygamist if you lived i those times because you think whatever smith said was true because god told him so. Even if smith had those revelations with god and god told him to get more wwives does it make it right just because god says so? most christians will say whatever god says is true, i cant live my life with that logic. GOd could potentially say raping a 10 year old girl is right, would it make it so?(extreme example) There are things in life that we can recognize as being right or wrong. Most would agree raping is wrong, killing etc. Do we really need a god to tell us what is right? Now to make things worst the mormon god changes his mind. He said to smith polygamy was needed to get into the celestial kingdom, now he says polygamy is wrong (or maybe it was influence from the govt, and needed for utah to become a state?). He said before 1978 that blacks couldnt hold the priesthood until ever single other race could and that blacks were to be last and then he changed his mind (or perhaps it was because of social pressure?). People describe god as a pure, perfect supreme being, not capable of changing. So this raises my question did god change his mind throughout the years or were the previous church prophets fake?