GeorgiaMike

How often should we change scout leaders? Certainly less often than we do. I went through 7 years of scouting with my son in a troop affiliated with another church having 50 to 80 scouts and around 30 adult leaders. Scouting with them has been the best thing I have ever done and I am still camping with them a few years after my son aged out. Scoutmaster is not a calling, it is a career. It only requires about one hour a week; one hour for each one of those 80 boys. The path to scoutmaster in our troop: -high level leadership experience at the cub scout level -first year getting your feet wet working on a committee while your boy is 11 years old -a year or more as the head of one of the challenging committees like outdoors -nomination by the 9 member troop commitee when a new scoutmaster is needed -a year of apprenticeship as the designated next scoutmaster learning the ropes from the retiring scoutmaster -completion simultaneously of several months of training offered in organized BSA courses (the scoutmaster for my son was wood badge trained) The term of service is expected to be 5 years or more, although unanticipated circumstances and employment changes can shorten that. Other leaders are expected to serve as long as possible but we change them after a few years. I have been asst. outdoors committee chair for 9 years under 3 heads of that committee and have camped out over 200 nights counting high adventure. Greater commitment to preparation results in stronger and better leaders. Extreme examples: 1. At one extreme is Mr. Bob who helped start the troop in the 1970’s and was the second scoutmaster after the first one quit. He is still there every week on the front row in full uniform always willing to set the rest of us straight. Believe me there is added value in having a grizzled scoutmaster’s scoutmaster in the middle of things with 40 years of experience. Mr. Bob is like having a general authority in ward council every week. 2. At the other extreme, I was called out of the blue to be the ward scoutmaster when my son was in diapers. I had no training, no assistants, and horribly undisciplined boys. Those few months were the single worst church experience of my life. I have written a nearly 4000 word rant about it titled “Misadventures of a Mormon Scoutmaster” if anyone wants to read it and don’t blame me if you throw up during or after. I suggest it is not the length of time but the quality of the training and experience that makes a good leader. Excellent training takes time, many years. Why give our boys anything less than the best in scouting?

You came here with a legitimate question. I don’t think you got very many good answers and some of the responses were frankly horrible. Without getting into a mudfest with everyone else, might I make a simple suggestion: Seek professional help. Find a good counselor and gently cajole your husband in for the first visit. You might have to make it “your” problem if he isn’t ready to accept responsibility and bring him along for “support.” If you as his wife do anything that makes him feel bad or guilty it probably won’t fix this problem. I predict that even if he were to really screw up, get arrested, go to jail, lose his job , etc. he might still continue this hobby. He needs a significant adjustment in his thinking in this one area, this is not a minor issue. If you had a problem this potentially serious with your car, you could ask friends online or maybe your Bishop. You might accidently figure out how to fix it. But when I experience car trouble I have this really great friend named Papi Xxxx and he fixes my car. He does this for lots of people, all day long, every day, out of a garage that he owns. And, well, he generally charges me hundreds of dollars for his services which I gladly pay because they are worth it. I have 3 cars between 13 and 25 years old with 150 to 250 thousand miles all working great thanks to him. So far it has been far cheaper to keep them going than to buy new ones. Papi is a professional. By the same logic if you have a problem with water leaks in your house and want them fixed you call a plumber, not the Bishop or get random ideas from strangers on line who happen to share your religion. Your husband has a problem that a good counselor can help him overcome. It will be cost effective to address this problem before he gets caught. In my experience, about 1/3 of counselors are crappy, 1/3 probably capable but don’t fit my style and about 1/3 are excellent for me. Better odds than car mechanics. So try one and don’t hesitate to switch. The best counselors will not necessarily make you feel real good at first. They might even make you and your husband work or change. But you will see results more quickly than you think. Of note, professional counselors will keep it confidential unless your husband is seriously threatening violence to other people, only then are they obligated to get the police involved and rightfully so.

Throw in the towel? Would you rather prefer to hear how to gird up your loins? I have been married to the same amazing but imperfect woman for 27 years. ( In the SL temple, she is related to GA’s). She ”went off the Mormon reservation” about 8 years ago although her first major Jesus-saved-me epiphany including the LDS church is far less than advertised was about 25 years ago. Although we live in Georgia, we go out west to visit family twice yearly and she has befriended most of the ministers and pastors in Utah. She spends quite a bit of time talking to women in their congregations on the internet who have left the LDS church and their husbands have not. Or who have other similar conflicts. We have also been there up close during divorces of close friends more times than I wish to think about. I think I can help you a bit. First, it is important for you to realize that you have two distinct but interrelated problems with different solutions. The best strategy will be to divide and conquer. They are: 1. Relationship with husband 2. Husband’s apostasy. #1. You need to seek the assistance of a good marriage counselor as soon as possible. They are very skillful at helping improve marriages and also in sorting out when it is best to move on. I must warn you, at least half of them are incompetent idiots (including some at LDSSA) and another third will have irreconcilable differences of personality or philosophy. You might get lucky and the first one will be a peach. But be prepared to shop around. A good counselor will make you work and change and take you out of your comfort zone. But you will know they are helpful by the results. If a counselor is really nice and listens compassionately but does little else, then you might as well get a golden retriever; it will cost less. Bishops have little training in marriage therapy. If your toilet flooded would you call the bishop? If your child had an aneurysm that needed brain surgery? Some bishops are also plumbers and doctors but most are not. How is this any different? Bishops can help with spiritual problems and give support. But this marriage is in trouble and you need professional help. With five kids, the stakes are exceeding high. #2. Your husband is going to do what he is going to do. He has his free agency and he is going to exercise it. He is not a pawn or a vassal. You might think the bishop is the solution to this one. But realize if your husband has already left to the point you describe, he has effectively released your bishop from being his spiritual leader. Direct efforts to reclaim him will probably back fire and might be in the category of unrighteous dominion. Even insincere indirect efforts (love bombs) will be annoying. What he needs is an authentic friend who will listen about 10 times as much as he talks. Not a young fireball Nibley prototype with a ruck sack full of books defending the faith. Not a theological violinist playing cords dripping with guilt, oh how could you do this to your family? Not helpful. *** You probably could use a good close friend yourself. One person you can trust to open up to and who will share your burdens. I can’t tell you how many times my wife has stayed up most of the night listening to her friends struggling with severe marital or personal problems. Often they bring their children for me to entertain. We would have pizza and games and a cray paper campfire in the rumpus room. Usually this would turn into a slumber party including a place for their mother to take a nap nearby when the approaching dawn interrupts the all-night session in another part of the house. These were hard times, when my ability to find the words to pray was exceeded. I would have all of the children from both families pray in turns going around the circle before they went to bed. I think you will both be happier the more open and honest and tolerant and forgiving and grateful you can be with each other. You are probably going to have to make some compromises with your beliefs in order to strengthen your marriage to where it will flourish and be satisfying to both of you. But you will not have to give up very much essential to being Mormon. I can’t tell you which sacrifices of belief will be necessary for you. For example, in my case I still believe that I will be with my wife in the next Iife even though she has tossed the garments and sneaks ice tea and a few other things. She does not believe in celestial marriage any more. How that will work out I don’t know. I have also given up this idea that the LDS faith is the only way for everyone. I have come to believe the Lord is guiding her along this path but where it will go and why I do not know. One silver lining is that I have been the one to take several ministers in Utah on tours of temple square where they were intensely interested in what we believe, but not for the purpose of conversion. Although a democrat my wife is probably the single most effective grass roots campaigner for Romney in this state because she has been invited to speak at several seminars for local influential ministers who want the inside story of whether a Mormon president will be a problem for them. It is thin comfort, these silver linings. Some things your husband does will impact you in drastic ways. But you have to adapt and learn to live with it and even laugh at some of it. My wife will not pay tithing and I frankly don’t want thousands of dollars flowing into the coffers of her church either. The compromise after years of bitter conflict is that we put our tithing into a fund for a purpose yet to be determined. It has grown to over $100,000 at this point. Rather amusing, I think. However, this results in no temple recommend for me and no substantial callings. I happen to know that in families with the husband as the bread winner, if he doesn’t allow his wife to pay tithing she can still be given a temple recommend if the bishop determines her heart is in the right place. This is unfair but the way that it is. You must also be prepared for unkindness from insensitive or misguided ward members, some in high places. My bishop told me 7 years ago to divorce my wife and find another woman to take me to the celestial kingdom. I told him to go to hell. Ward members called to teach were mean to my children when they acted up and they could be pretty bad, especially my oldest daughter who was such a little hell cat that she got permanently kicked out of primary and booted many times from YW and slapped in the face. The next one was worse, less noisy perhaps. Maybe I was used to it by then. The bishop later apologized and asked me for “a blanket forgiveness” for all the things he had done wrong that hurt us. I did and sometimes I have to forgive him again, as often as every day. Not every bishop is man enough to do this and only one other other ward member was. Forgiveness goes both ways. Lucky for the LDS church, my oldest daughter was 13 when her mother left and as an act of teenage rebellion she became fanatically yet somehow insincerely devoted to the church as a way to fight with her mother. This kept our kids in the church. A wonderful woman and early morning seminary teacher patched up some of the cracks. But usually the mother has about 10 times as much influence on the religion of children as the father, except older teenage boys. In truth, you have no way to predict what any one of your children will do, only ill-defined statistical trends. Your husband does not have to make a complete break with the LDS faith. You can find ways to involve him at a level where he is comfortable. I knew a former bishop gone sour who only came to the annual July 24th ward activity. Better than nothing. Others might see the church as a good venue to perform community service in spite of their complete disbelief. We do quite a bit of service but most of it is directed internally to other members or to the church. You might be inspired to define new callings that your husband (and you) would actually want do in the community. Organize ward service at a food bank or organize blood drives or even lead the ward in building a house for habitat for humanity. Your imagination is the only limit. If you have 5 children at least one of them is probably a boy and scouting becomes an excellent opportunity for any father and son to weave a glorious family tapestry of adventure, service and achievement together. Even if your husband is not given a calling, fathers are always welcome to come camping and attend meetings. Since most LDS scout leaders are short timers and poorly trained, after a few years a father devoted to scouting will by default acquire the most expertise in the ward and will be deeply appreciated. And de facto in charge. I know a nasty little secret; in most protestant churches the majority of the men are extremely skeptical and go mostly to please their wives and help their children “learn values,” whatever that means. And you might be surprised to find that we Mormons are not immune from this tendency. If you sniff around the back rows at priesthood meeting you will find others like your husband; you are not alone. Different faiths have their strengths and weakness. Mormonism is strong and good in so many ways. But it is a tough church for mixed faith families and not many remain. You may become a pioneer for not a few others who will face similar challenges. When God closes a door he usually at least opens a window.