JosephP
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Posts posted by JosephP
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I think the words to the song "Sweet Hour of Prayer" covers my explanation.
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My parents disapprove of most religious organizations in general, and seem to abhor especially the LDS Church and JW's. They made it a point to install a gated front entrance so we would never be solicited by anyone, on any matter.
They work most of the time and I have trouble reaching them (literally and emotionally). We don't really talk much about feelings or emotions in my family. Everything can get tense right away and the best way I've managed to deal with it all is just to be obedient and never give them trouble.
It seems that the addition of the gate for the specific purpose to prevent solicitation by religious groups says quite a lot. It doesn't seem likely that they are going to be open-minded enough to hear your perspective.
To me, the only issue remaining is your willingness and timing in declaring your independence. Your acceptance of the Gospel seems to be included in that independence.
I do not agree with those that said allowing them to finish paying for your education would be wrong. You are willing to talk to them now, they are unwilling to listen. Continuing the status quo until you are in a position where you can insist they listen is certainly not unethical.
Of course you have the final decisions to make, such as whether to be baptized, the timing of your baptism, and when you declare your independence from your parents. All we can offer you here is our own opinions. You ultimately must make the decision yourself.
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From what I recall this whole concept that apologizing shows weakness became popular because of a line in the old John Ford movie "She Wore A Yellow Rinbon" when an old wise Colonel played by John Wayne says to a young Captain; "Never apologize, Mister, its a sign of weakness"
Since then this idea has become popular, especially among those who have slight education and parental upbringing. Like many macho concepts of manhood, its deeply engrained into some people and the absurdity of it matters not in the least.
It is possible for an abused or weak person to use the term "I'm sorry" compulsively, and perhaps that is the origin of this idea. But anyone who has ever given or received a sincere eye to eye apology knows the courage it takes.
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I can't help but wonder what's your parents concern are. There are lots of people who dislike the church, but they do so for a wide variety of reasons. Perhaps understanding what it is they object so strongly about would allow someone to help you better.
If we can trust in miracles to the point that we understand that God has restored His church in these days, is it so hard to believe your parent's concern can be addressed if we know what they are?
Would you be willing to share a bit about what your parents objections and opinions are?
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IThere are nationally accredited colleges that have graduate courses in anti-mormon research for cryin' out loud.
Is this really true?! Sorry Buddha, not meaning to doubt you, but it just sounds remarkable that an accredited college could offer such a course. I don't think it would ever happen in this country, not because we limit academic freedom, but because nobody would ever be remotely interested in taking such a course.
I took an anti-Mormon class at a Protestant church in 1977, I assure you they were fired up and wanted more. It was mostly illogical emotional arguments about unusual doctrines and personal attacks on Joseph Smith and others I hadn't heard of at the time. Back then I didn't know a Mormon from a Methodist.
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Very nice! Hope you have a fantastic time with the Macdonald name. I'm sure things will go well for you and your wife.
I just thought of something. My login name here is Joseph P. Are they going to let me change it to Joseph M. if I can show them the temple marriage certificate? ;-)
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Hey Joesph. I can give you some background on someone who took his wife's last name. :)
I'm much younger than you so the implications and reactions are obviously different but there were some general reactions in people that I think would be the same nonetheless.
My last name was Hispanic and my wife's is Chinese. I decided to take her short Chinese last name and boot my hispanic last name to my middle name. My family wasn't incredibly excited by what I had done but they did appreciate me keeping the name in the family.
I had thought about doing a hyphenated last name but our personal thoughts were choose one or the other.
So far it's been such a great experience with a new last name! I'm very proud of my wife's Chinese heritage and she actively engages in the Chinese-American community. Just feel out the situation and see whether you'd be comfortable with that new last name. If you really want to personally change it, go for it! You won't regret the change. But maybe keep that hispanic last name in the family, somehow.
Yes, that was helpful. I have a brother who has a son so the name continues. I'm beyond having more children and have only an adult daughter.
I think we're going to go for it.
Joseph Macdonald, it doesn't exactly sing, but its not too awkward either.
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Be yourselves, teens spot and are turned off by pretense. Explain what you expect from her as a guest in your home, and ask what she expects from you so she can be comfortable.
If true, explain that your religion is important in your home and she's invited to join you in prayer, FHE, etc. if she wants, but that she isn't required to.
Mostly make it a loving family experience. Unless she does something that is in conflict with your standards there shouldn't be much to worry about other than the language barrier, for sure!
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To me, deep doctrine are the things we aren't certain of, those that are suggested but not defined in scripture. Things like the role of our spirit children, the idea of a Heavenly Mother, the famous "as God is man may..." concept, etc.
I don't concern myself with knowing all the various ideas about each deep doctrine. I'm content with an overview to form a personal opinion about it, but understanding its only my opinion.
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JosephP this is an interesting subject, and like many gospel subjects there are little clues spread all over the place and no complete definition is had in one place.
My take on it goes like this, but others can find more things that I miss:
Alma 40:6
6 Now there must needs be a space betwixt the time of death and the time of the resurrection.
The space betwixt death and resurrection has different names, but overall we sometimes refer to it as the spirit world where the spirits of all men dwell after death and before the resurrection. Sometimes the place is called spirit prison because disembodied spirits cannot gain a fullness of joy while separated from the physical bodies until the resurrection (D&C 93:33-34). So the feeling is that the whole spirit world is a spirit prison because:
Doctrine and Covenants 138:50
50 For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage.
The spirit world is divided into two places; a place for the righteous and a place for the wicked. The place of the wicked we refer to as Hell. See John 23: 19 – on. The rich man was separated from Abraham and Lazarus. While Christ was in the tomb he visited the spirit world; see 1Peter 3 – 4 th chapters and He bridged the gulf between the two places. But we have the understanding that only the righteous can cross back and forth. Sorry, I can’t immediately find a reference to that concept. But we know that:
Doctrine and Covenants 138:30
30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.
We can see here that Hell is referred to as darkness. Multiple names for the same place will lead to confusion, but that is how it is.
The entire spirit world is a temporary place and will be emptied by the end of the resurrection:
Revelation 20:13
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
2 Nephi 9:12
12 And this death of which I have spoken, which is the spiritual death, shall deliver up its dead; which spiritual death is hell; wherefore, death and hell must deliver up their dead, and hell must deliver up its captive spirits, and the grave must deliver up its captive bodies, and the bodies and the spirits of men will be restored one to the other; and it is by the power of the resurrection of the Holy One of Israel.
After the resurrection comes the final judgment;
2 Nephi 28:23
22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.
Sometimes people refer to this endless torment as hell or outer darkness so it is possible to be confused as to which place some people are talking about.
Revelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
I hope this helps
Yes this was a big help. When all is said and done I think I'll file this all under 'deep doctrine' and stick to the explanation in Gospel Principles for my day to day thought process. In the end, it changes nothing about my responsibilities to my covenants or my testimony. Great stuff to ponder about from time to time though.
Thanks so much everyone. I was able to give a very clear and well documented discription to the person who asked me.
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To the OP, I love my last name, I love its history. I am not sure I would say the same if it was awkward, but I feel it defines me a little, to know where I came from through my name. But hey, you can embrace your wifes also. I so go for it.
My name is Hispanic (Cuban), but my biological father died when I was four, and my mother remarried a Russian, like herself. My entire background is Russian, I was even an altar boy in a Russian Othodox Church, yet everyone always thinks I'm Mexican just based on my last name, and often expect me to speak and act in a way that is totally foreign to me. I've even been scolded for not embracing my Mexican heritage, so strong are people's misimpression.
My fiancé's name is Scott's/Irish, but at least I'm familiar with the culture.
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How do they sound hyphenated?
Together they sound like a restaurant no one would dare eat at! ;-)
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If you and your fiance are okay with both using HER name instead of yours, then by all means do it. What does it matter what others think? It's YOUR name.
There is the feelings in my family about laying it aside. I'm also curious what it will be like at work having a new identity.
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Neither my fiancé or I like my last name. I had wanted to change it when I was 17 before I enlisted, but couldn't afford the court fees. I've felt stuck with it all my life.
In the state where we plan to marry the wife can use her maiden name and the husband can use the wife's name when getting married.
I have had some pretty extreme responses to this, and I'm just testing the waters in this forum. Opinions please. It's a big irreversible decision and I want to be happy with the choice.
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I'm not sure I can say one way is better than another. My own path toward gaining a testimony was,
1- Is the Book of Mormon true? Once I had an answer that it was scripture my next question was,
2- Is the LDS Church the true church? Again when I felt conformation from the spirit the next step for me
3- Is my joining the church your will for my life.
Now of course it wasn't that systematically cut and dry, but that was the general process I went through. I think you need to establish the path that answers the questions you have. I don't think you're likely to get an answer in one big blast, most people get small assurances as they progress in their testimony.
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Welcome, you've found a good place to safely ask questions and gain the LDS perspective.
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Not yet, but the complete text is available online at
Full text of "Three degrees of glory; discourse, Ogden Tabernacle, Sept.22, 1922"
Thanks for the suggestion. There does seem to be serious debate about the racial component to his writings.
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My husband and I just purchased a new home and would like to have a blessing on the home prior to moving in. I have searched lds.org and the other sites looking for how to do this. Our Bishop told us that this is not done that often anymore, but it still happens at times. Does anyone know the protocol? I'm not sure what ordinance this falls under - Special Blessing of Comfort perhaps?
Not done often any more? It was part of the quarterly challenge from our Stake President that everyone bless their home. It is not a priesthood ordinance however, anyone may do it.
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Where did this rumor of a "big announcement" come from? I know I live in the desert, but no one I know is talking about it.
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I don't think I was clear, there was people that came into the DI and instead of paying $4 for a pair of pants, wanted to pay ONLY $2, just because he, or she, is an active, temple recommend holding, member.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that the DI can directly accept cash donations.
I did understand that some people think they deserve a discount. When I shop at DI I'm glad to be able to contribute to the good work, couldn't imagine expecting a discount. I don't know about the cash donation thing either, but I do try to bring something to donate when I go.
I was surprised that DI is no longer asking for volunteers as a ward assignment. Anyone know if that's church wide or just in the Phoenix, Arizona area. Sorry for moving off topic.
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BTW, Spirit Prison IS hell. It is the first hell. It is described in Alma 36, where he suffers until he believes and repents. After which, he is rescued from that hell by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ into paradise.
I'm not sure I'm getting that from Alma 36. Would you be willing to elaborate, please.
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Some discussion where? It seems both unlikely and undesirable from my very limited perspective.
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Actually there is a reference to spirits in prison in the New Testament.
1 Peter 3:18-19
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Thank you. That helps
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D&C 76 is talking about final disposition. It's similar to how I could talk about what sort of offenses get one landed in a Maximum, Medium, or Minimum Security prison without talking about the jail or bail arrangements that happen prior to going to prison.
So then is section 138 where we first learn about the captives? Does anyone know where the term spirit prison came from?
New Study: 1 in 10 Marriages are Interracial
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by JosephP
This whole concept of different race marriage is rather confusing to me. It's so subjective as to be insane. My mother is Ukrainian, called herself Russian, and my father was a Cuban. Yet when my brother wanted to marry a Polish women she objected because of her nationality. In her mind, Poles were a different and undesirable race.
So what of me, being mixed race? Should I find another Ukrainian/Cuban to marry? Is an English/Hawaian close enough or is that interracial? These classifications are archaic and there continued use is equally archaic. For me, the continued defense of these classifications is offensive.
Why are we asked to declare a race on almost every government form? Why is there no mixed race option on federal forms? Am I Caucasian or Hispanic? Do I deny my mother or my father when addressing my government? It's simply repulsive to think that some government clerk somewhere will decide what catagory my Germanic fiancé and I fit into when we marry.
Lastly, I simply can not understand why we as a free people can be compelled to provide this information, and more so, what possible use this information is to the government other then the continuation of archaic racial distinctions.