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Loudmouth, I had a long discussion on the concept of bearing arms and the use of deadly force in self defense with the Elders who guided my path into Mormonism. I happen to teach classes on concealed carry and the laws within my state as well as defensive pistol techniques. Apoliges if I don't get some of the terms right but I was baptised only a couple of weeks ago. I was under the impression Mormons in general were not pacifists and there are several like minded folks within the branch I attend. Perhaps this is a regional difference. As for the "No duty to protect" issue, I cite the following cases: Warren v. District of Columbia DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department Several articles have been written about each case. Rather than influence you with my own sources I suggest you look into them yourself. Personal opinions of individual LEO's do not trump a court's findings. There may be a handfull of old school cops out there but I believe these findings have contribuited to the mission creep of "Protect and serve" becoming "Go home safe". Don't misunderstand me, I'm NOT cop bashing here just stating reported precidents. I happen to know a few LEO's as I compete in IDPA with a bunch of them.

Perhaps in the furure, I value my privacy.

At the risk of drawing the ire of some I'd like to comment: I have been a lawful gun owner for 36 years and pretty much grew up with a .22 henry in my hands. I carry a loaded concealed handgun every day. Why ? Because evil walks this earth and Evil can manifest itself in the most unlikely places and the most inopportune times. I'm neither a cop or a vigilantie, if I think "Will I need a gun to go_____< fill in the blank. Then I dont go there. I don't wave it around or point it at people who zoom into a parking space after I've circled the block four times trying to find. That's not what it's for. It dosen't "go off" all by itself. When you read about a gun "going off" it is because some idiot had his finger on the dang trigger ! If you don't "Like" guns, then don't buy one. I "like" mine and take it with me everywhere I go. Think the police are there to protect you ? Guess again. There have been two Federal Supreme Court decisions finding that the police have "no duty to protect". They are there to draw the chalk outline around your dead body. If you're lucky they might get there while the assault or rape is still in progresss. Now, going after one who asaults and kills someone after the crime has been committed is murder no matter how you look at it but when you are being assaulted or raped it is quite another matter. I cannot fathom the mindset of those who refuse to defend thenselves, do you really have that much contempt for the gift of life God has granted you that you would throw your life away ? Does not Ether14:2 state "Every man kept the hilt of his sword in his right hand in the defense of his property and his own life and of his wifves and children.". ? The sword was the preferred weapon when those words were written but why should we not use the mordern equlivent, a handgun or other suitable firearm? Please, continue to discuss.

"FRS" walkie talkies do not require any licensing and are good for short range (1-3 miles, tops) line of sight communications. "GMRS" units have more frequencies and many offer a "privacy" feature which can scramble your transmission so only those who know what channel and which scramble setting you are using can communicate with you. IIRC the license is 80 bucks for five years. CB isn't woth much as previously stated. The issue I have with ham (in particular 2-meter) is the nerds who run the net. If you have a slip of the tongue and transpose the letters of you call sign a previously quiet frequency will explode with cries of "UNLICENSED OPERATOR !" and "GET OFF THE AIR!" Remember, some of these guys literally nothing better to do than sit around waiting for a mistake like this, their computer is sitting right next to their base station and they'll be looking up your call sign to see if you're legal or not. For those who don't know: your amature radio license is published in an on-line and in-print directory listing your name and address. The above incident really did happen to me on my first try and it took me a couple of tries to get it right as I was pretty well flustered at that point. I also found one guy in my yard as I got home from work one day who told me he was there just to check out my antennas and would I mind showing him my "shack". Let some stranger into my home to check out some expensive radio equipment, uh, no thanks. Told him he wasn't welcome and to leave now. Followed him to his truck got the plate and gave the cops a detailed description. There is a way to "jailbteak" some older PTT cell phones and that'll give you short range digital, secure comms. I'll do somoe research and see if I can remember where I saw that and post it here.

Ok so I'm the new guy here and I'm unsure of the offical policy on linking but below is a website with some good information on crimes committed in a church setting. so; I'll just leave this here.

Hi folks. I'm the new guy. See you on the boards.