jinc1019
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Posts posted by jinc1019
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A matter of interpretation. Early commentators read the Catholic Church into these passages. Modern commentators, not so much--and of course, any Mormon worth his salt knows that we have the Catholics to thank for preserving the Bible as we know it.
Mormonism talks about something called "priesthood keys". You can have lots and lots of men ordained to the priesthood, but they can only use that priesthood (one function of which, is to ordain new priests) to the extent that they are authorized by those who hold the keys. We believe that ultimately, the "keys" lie with the twelve apostles collectively. If one apostle dies, he is replaced and the group--and the keys--carry on.
But if the entire group of apostles dies without picking more apostles as their successors, the keys are gone. The remaining priesthood holders might theoretically be able to carry on at a local level for a while, but since no one has the "keys" these priesthood holders lack the authority to govern the church as a whole, re-constitute the group of apostles, or even to ordain new people to the priesthood. Eradicate the priesthood keys, and the priesthood's fate is sealed--until the keys are restored.
That's what we think happened with Catholicism: the early Church, in the absence of the Apostles, had to choose between waiting for a restoration and risk losing everything they'd gained in the first century CE if that restoration didn't come; or deciding that the local leaders in a given area (say, Rome) would thenceforth be given control of the entire operation. They faced a hard choice, and ultimately did the latter. It may have been a well-intentioned decision; but it was--we believe--the wrong one.
Very good explanation. Thank you!
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I will read the sermon...I have not yet read it. To me, it doesn't really matter how expansive the universe is...basic logic says there has to be a creator at the beginning of time
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Here's a start.
But honestly, Justin, none of that is going to be as persuasive as God working a miracle in your own life. Might I respectfully suggest that that's more of a possibility than you think it is? :)
I have prayed for a LONG time about finding a church home...to no avail. I realize many have prayed longer...so I continue to pray...but I am not sure I will be blessed with an answer.
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This is one of those non-canonical ideas within Mormonism. That said: I agree with it.
If you'll pardon the irreverence: It's Godfathers, all the way down.
I have a sneaking suspicion you'd love this thread. :)
It was very interesting yes!
However, I still don't quite understand the position. On the one hand, it sounds like Mormons definitively state God is the sole creator of the universe, but on the other hand, it seems Mormons think God was also once a man? I can't understand the position. Why do Mormons believe it?
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Fair enough...Question answered.
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Lol, very clever....If anyone has sources for the *other* miracles, I would appreciate it.
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Other than the Book of Mormon? Healings, etc.?
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Because we believe it went astray and lost the Priesthood authority that God had given the apostles
But based on what? Was this revealed to Smith? That the priesthood was lost?
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The title says it all.
If this is true, could someone elaborate? Also, could the question be answered: If God was once a man, who made God?
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Did Joseph Smith perform any miracles? If so, are there any good sources online about this?
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As someone who grew up Catholic, one of the things that has really stood out to me was that the Book of Mormon is pretty anti-Catholic in the sense that it prophesizes about its going astray very early on and talks about how awful it will become (all in the first 14 chapters of Nephi).
What I find very interesting is how much in common the Catholic Church and the LDS Church have. Both believe to be the one true Church established by Christ himself, both have leaders who claim that, in certain situations, the Holy Spirit watches over them and guides them to truth, and both have a priesthood.
Obviously there are many differences...but the similarities are really striking because both ultimately claim to be Christ's true church.
Although I am not Catholic any longer (I don't have a denominational home despite being a professing Christian), I do wonder...Why do Mormons believe that Catholic holy orders are invalid? If Christ established that priesthood, shouldn't they also have valid priests?
From what I read, Mormons seem to think it's no longer valid but I can't figure out why. Any help on this would be great!
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What makes Genesis 2 believable to you? and what exactly puts it in the middle east?
As I said before, the Tigris, Euphrates, and Assyria all clearly point to the Middle East, OR AT LEAST that part of the world! How does it point to Missouri? That is really the question.
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I appreciate the responses. I honestly can't understand how anyone could believe it's true that Eden was in Missouri, but I certainly can respect the opinion.
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There is nothing that clearly connects modern geography with anyplace mentioned before the time of Noah in the Bible. Adam who lived for hundreds of years could have easily traveled the world several times over. Just because Noah and his descendants settled near the middle east doesn't mean that everyone prior to that lived there.
That is not correct. The Bible clearly says the Garden is located near the Tigris and the Euphrates (rivers), even saying the Tigris flows east of Assyria.
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We understand it based on faith...
Does the evidence seem to be against it... Yeap...
But when faced with the idea of Trusting God or trusting the evidence that man has pieced together I am going to go with God every time
I can certainly understand that position, but your faith is based on the idea that Joseph Smith was a prophet and a true prophet doesn't teach false things. So shouldn't this at least be an issue of importance? I am not saying there is no conceivable way it's true...only that it seems incredibly, incredibly unlikely.
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Thanks for this Pam. I did read this already and while it was helpful in that it explained what Mormons officially believe, I was curious what everyday Mormons think of this. Obviously it seems essentially impossible, doesn't it?
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I was saying it was speculation that you will be creating planets, etc. All your scriptures say is that you will be joint heirs with Christ, gods, etc. It doesn't say what you will be doing or why. You have opinions about that but it isn't doctrine. I know it isn't because I read it wasn't on the LDS website.
Justin
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Of all the claims anti-Mormons make about Joseph Smith, this one seems to me to be one of the most valid criticisms. I realize that no one really knows where the Garden of Eden is, thus any place could hypothetically be the Garden of Eden, it still seems very unlikely (to say the least) that it would be in Missouri of all places. I am not at all trying to trash Mormonism. I want to be as fair as I possibly can...As I said before, I am quite impressed by much of the evidence I have seen about the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith, but this one...this is hard to understand.
How do Mormons generally understand this teaching? Do Mormons really accept that the Garden of Eden is in/near Missouri? If so, how do you explain all the other early events of the Bible occurring in locations much further away (Israel and Middle East)?
I am very interested to hear what Mormons think about this.
Justin
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Personally, my interpretation of exaltation is different than most Latter-Day Saints, so no one report me to President Monson! Also, fully disclosure, I've been a member only 2 and a half months.
Anyways, my view of exaltation and becoming gods is that we will reach a mystical and mysterious union/communion with God. It's a less conventional LDS view of it.
As far as God having a wife, that I'm still not sure I believe, I'm working on it.
Thanks for sharing that. I can certainly understand and relate to those views!
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The purpose of life is to perpetuate life forever. God's plan is all about an eternal increase. In naturalistic terms, the continuation of the species forever.
If God's work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man and if we are to be one with the Father and the Son and heirs and joint-heirs with Christ, then there is no other answer except that we will continue the work of the Father of bringing to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Whatever work He does, we will do. If the Father creates universes, then we will be doing the same. If He creates worlds, then we will be doing the same.
If we are to be Gods, then we will be doing the work of Gods.
-Finrock
This is speculation though, correct? I don't see any official passages of your scripture that say this (ALTHOUGH, I obviously don't know them very well).
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If you want to find out about Fords would you ask a Chevy salesman?
Asking questions here is a good start, but yes, study the Book of Mormon, etc for yourself and pray about what you are reading. Start the discussions with the Missionaries - they are not high pressure people, their job is to teach and let you decide.
I have spoken with missionaries before and yes they are quite helpful.
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Matthew Roper has co-authored a few since then.
his reviews against the Jocker's et. al. study in 2011
Just as a note though, the first study by Roper is about determining the editor of Times and Seasons, not the Book of Mormon or any other alleged scripture.
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Matthew Roper has co-authored a few since then.
his reviews against the Jocker's et. al. study in 2011
Thank you for these studies. I was aware of those that reject the Jocker's study but not the others.
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I agree with applepansy. The bottom line is that "word print" is an interesting and fallible technique that might provide a few insights into the Book of Mormon, but in the end won't tell you anything of any real importance. That comes only through the Spirit.
Unlike many of you, I have yet to be blessed with the certainty of the Spirit. As such, I try to rely on whatever hard evidence I can find, even if it is, like all human things, fallible.
The Catholic Church and the LDS Church
in LDS Gospel Discussion
Posted
Very interesting to see this. Honestly, I was expecting a completely different answer. Having grown up Catholic, the passages just SOUNDED like something Evangelicals would point to and say "this is the Catholic Church." Shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion obviously.