jinc1019

Sorry, it was a typo.

These are all fair points and I will try not to take anything out of context, seeking the advice of those who know better than I do prior to making any judgments. I am a pretty fair individual, and when it comes to religion, I am more interested in getting to the truth than I am anything else. The truth is my only agenda so I don't ever intentionally try to reach a conclusion I want. I started really reading the Book of Mormon from beginning to end a few days ago. So far, several things stand out to me, some support the Mormon claim and some do not. Since this thread is really not about those specific issues, I won't address them here but will instead open another thread when the time is right. Thanks to everyone again for your help. Justin

All excellent posts. I appreciate everyone's efforts in these discussions. Thanks so much again.

After doing a little more digging about the Book of Mormon, I came across a 2002 study that seemed to claim, based on a wordprint study (which analyzes the likelihood that various authors actually wrote particular material), that Joseph Smith, Oliver C., and Sidney Ringdon absolutely did not write the Book of Mormon. However, a Stanford test by three professors, the lead author's name was Jokers, seemed to suggest that Ringdon was definitely the author based on a statistical model in 2008. A BYU study then later debunked this quite successfully in my opinion, but all of these studies leads me to my question: Why the heck aren't there a lot more wordprint studies? It seems to me this would definitely help resolve any questions about the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, etc. Here is a FAIR Mormon article on wordprint studies and the 2002 study that favors the Mormon position nicely: Book of Mormon/Wordprint studies - FairMormon

I don't deny anything you say here except that...What do you say to those who never receive a witness of the truth you believe? When you rely so heavily on that witness and it never comes, it seems impossible to believe it.

I agree, but it can't be "out of context" if I am reading it from your scriptures in its entirety.

Good to see.

That's a very fair answer. I will continue to study your scriptures and ask God to bring forth the truth. I am perfectly willing to put the matter in God's hands, but admittedly, I don't expect to get an answer that's clear (which often seems to be the case with my studies).

Too much yes...I don't enjoy it!

Apparently I need to learn more about what Mormons actually believe from the BOC, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price. It seems to me that much of what I have heard about Mormonism is largely false or exaggerated or taken to be official doctrine when it is not. Speaking as someone who has never even really known a Mormon personally, you all have really been given the shaft by the general Christian community in America.

Very nice overview. Thank you so much for providing it. Justin

You are right. But the problem with this is...if the Spirit doesn't confirm this belief in an individual, which is the case with myself, then there isn't any hope of ever believing it based on that reliance.

The only way to truly KNOW something is objectively true is for God to tell you it is. Otherwise, one must make judgments based on the weight of the evidence. For the most part, that's what I do. If I believe the evidence supports one conclusion over another, I generally accept that conclusion...Unless God tells me otherwise.

I appreciate the kind welcome Finrock! I respect your opinion but respectfully disagree. Without any reason to believe in a Heavenly Mother, I don't really see the reason for doing so.

I did know this yes. Mormons believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings that together make the Godhead, a unified group (for the lack of a better word) in spirit, desire, action and will. So essentially, they believe in one Godhead but separate Godly entities. I don't necessarily have a problem with this because it's impossible to disprove from the Bible or from any other source. If Joseph Smith saw what he claimed to see, it is likely true. I don't know what a Panentheist is, could you explain that to me?

I can understand why you would think I am talking about labels, but I am not. I am talking about objective truth. All Mormons' beliefs cannot be right if all the beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church are right. All Mormon beliefs cannot be right if all Muslim beliefs are right. Some church has to be wrong, which is to say have the wrong teachings about who God is, what God wants from us, etc. Even your assessment that we are all God's children is something many would reject in other faiths. My goal is to discover the truth...I don't care at all about labels, which is why I am not a member of any denomination (although I would like to be if the truth was taught there).

Yes, but they were definitively monotheistic. From what I can tell, there is no mention of more than one deity from the Early Christian Fathers.

Thank you for all of your help. I will read over all of it. Justin

All good points. I can't dispute any of them logically.

I will be sure to read this over carefully. Thank you.

Thanks for all of the insights. If you believe that there is a Mother in Heaven, why is there no mention of Her anywhere in scripture?

Fair enough. Perhaps a leap of faith is required. But again, how do you distinguish your leap and the result from it and the leap made by Muslims or Presbyterians or anyone else? It just seems like, at the end of the day, unless you have a religious experience, it's all just up in the air.

Thank you for all of this wonderful information. Just to be clear though (because I want to be sure I get it absolutely right), the ONLY official doctrine of the LDS Church is held within the Book of Mormon, the D&C, the Pearl of Great Price, and Proclamations, correct? I know where to find the first three, but what about the "Proclamations"? Is there a place where all of the Proclamations not contained within the D&C are listed?

Ok, so it sounds like you are saying that the actual teaching is quite broad and others have extrapolated, rightly or wrongly, to come to more specific conclusions which could be right or could be wrong. Is that right? What about the issue about God, the Heavenly Father, having some kind of relationship with a goddess? Is that doctrinal or just a rumor?

Perfectly fair suggestion. And for those directives that actually produce fruit, it makes sense. But what about the LDS Church's teachings on the sacraments (such as baptism and the Lord's Supper)? If I practice those sacraments within the LDS Church, how can I "test the fruits" of those teachings? I can't. The LDS Church may be right and it may be wrong on those teachings, but I can't practice those things and then find out after the fact that they were right the same you can with many other teachings that clearly can produce positive outcomes. The same is true about the LDS' teachings on the afterlife. If the LDS Church is wrong, I won't know until I get there (God willing)! I agree that faith is more than an academic exercise, and perhaps that's something I need to learn in a practical sense, but believing something before knowing it's true is not something I think I could ever do.