Truth12

It is not a falsehood; to claim it as false shows a lack of knowledge in world culture, social environments, and the workings of the human brain. Even within the church in parts of the world you will find women with their nude breasts in plain view during sacrament mtgs., nothing sexual about it except in the mind of those raised in a different culture. Church activities held on the beach often included nude swimming, nothing sexual except in the minds of those raised in a different culture. Yes there are places throughout the world where "nudity" is an issue and sex is implied. However, the point was that it is a cultural belief that differs in other countries/cultures. The belief that nudity implies sex is a learned belief instilled in the mind based on one's social environment.

Communication is day to day needs and kid needs. She gets defensive over everything, cannot talk with her unless everything said (or not said) is exactly how it is in her mind. Walking on eggshells. I'm finding evidence that she has a history of questionable behavior that she kept hidden from the start. Looking more of a long term cover up of her history. Being older now I suppose she is either getting bolder in her behaviors/activities or I am just waking up and noticing (remember it was my son that found her craigslist ad and emails). Family will have a most difficult time believing she could cheat or lie, thus evidence is needed. Since I've found evidence that she never loved me in the beginning, I'm not sure impressing her is worth the effort. Do I want a woman that doesn't love me? [i found letters and notes written a few weeks before we got married that said "I don't love him but he is good husband material".] Further evidence suggest that from the start she was cheating on some level. Her "friend" is constantly telling her what to look for. She no longer uses any computer at home, might have a keylogger. She changed her cell phone company to one that doesn't have detailed calls and text records. She doesn't allow her current phone out of her sight and charges it at work now. Certain times her phone is turned off (kids call me in an emergency, she won't answer). She is not techno savy in any way so I know someone else is telling her. Thanks for your responses...

This tells me that the photography is really not the issue, there are other issues that need to be addressed with a competent professional. I suspect his lying was to avoid conflict with you and that he may lie at other times to avoid your responses/reactions to what he has to say. I highly suspect that both of you are hurt from your past and it is making the present difficult. tI used to be a professional photographer working with fashion models and the like. There is nothing wrong with that type of photography. There is a difference between porn pics and boudoir pics, those that can't tell the difference don't understand art. For liability reasons most professionals have a third person observer at every shoot involving possible nudity (most women bring a friend when doing boudoir with a male photographer). Believing that nudity equals sex and arousal is purely a cultural belief. Sex and arousal occurs in the brain, a professional will not get aroused because their thoughts are on the technical aspects of the shoot and the art. Outside of sexualized US, nudity and the like is seldom an issue, it is the culturalization that makes it a "bad" thing. If your husband is good at it he should get paid, if he gets aroused he should stop, at the least you should be at every shoot he does and he should share everything with you. Get clarity on why his actions hurt you, its not about the photography, it is something deeper. Try to identify your feelings and your reactions. His actions in the photography may have been pure desire for art, it could also be a sign that he is hurt and craves intimacy. He may not know how to express intimacy (this does not mean sex) with you. He may feel abandoned by you which may also relate to his childhood. My point is it sounds like both of you are hurt and will continue to get hurt until you can resolve the past and then live in the present. I highly suggest a marriage therapist (MFT or LCSW) that has actual experience being married. You can pray and read the scriptures forever but that won't help "fix" the relationship. Be honest about your past (all of it, not just the present) with the therapist so they can get a clear picture. Be honest with yourself and your husband. I also suggest the book called "What you can feel, you can heal" by Dr. John Gray. It is a practical book that may help you and your husband. I highly suggest using the feeling letter exercises. If you can't afford a therapist, talk to your bishop. The church will help out (usually a sliding fee scale) so you get the help you need. Better to get help now before it affects your children, divorce later on can be far more costly. Make it happen...

All family are over 2000 miles away, so no support system. I'm well liked by everyone (except wife). Family (both hers and mine) will have a hard time believing that she would (or could) lie or have an affair. Her image is that of a "Molly Mormon", always doing the right thing, always living the gospel. One reason having hard evidence is important. It's difficult for me to believe it, loyalty and honesty was her most descriptive/traits. She is the last person anyone would suspect of being dishonest and having an affair.

You can believe what you want, that's your choice. I am being truthful in my statements and not deceiving anyone; no reason to deceive. Your disrespect and assumptions indicates a lack of integrity and church experience.

Volt.. You have your experiences and I respect that. I also have my experiences of which I am referring. Assuming that my experiences are wrong or inaccurate is disrespectful and shows a narrowness of thinking. (Unfortunately many members are narrow minded that way and it discredits the church in the real world). My experiences are wide and varied within the church on many levels. I have not lived in the typical "LDS bubble", I have worked within many different cultures around the world and within the church and have had diverse experiences many have not. There is a culture within the church levels that "average" members have no knowledge. Never assume that because you have no experience with something that your experience is the absolute truth.

Having lived and worked in all 50 states, Canada, Micronesia, Japan, etc. I have heard it many times, even in sacrament meetings where reference was used to "Joe Smith". Like I said, some LDS cultures will always use the full name and think it is a sin to shorten the name. Others have no problem with the shortened name. It depends largely on your upbringing and experience. Heavily LDS populated communities are more likely to stick with the full name version for fear of "sinning". Smaller LDS populated areas not a big deal.

Outside of Utah it happens all the time. I asked once why the relief society or a family couldn't provide a meal for them. The rational was that they didn't want members to do any extra work on Sunday. I followed up with "we could set an extra plate and have plenty, no extra work". I was then told that they wanted KFC. Every few months someone was sent to KFC or Subway to pick up their chosen meals (on Sunday). I didn't believe it either until I was the one handed the money and ordered to go get the food. It is also used in casual references within the church. Depends on LDS culture of where you live. In the Intermountain West you don't use the shortened version for fear you'll be labeled as "anti". Other areas in the states and worldwide there is nothing wrong with using "Joe Smith". Some LDS cultures only refer to JS when using the title "prophet" before the name. LDS culture differs somewhat around the world. Don't make any assumptions.

Well it is true especially when outside of Utah. I asked once why the relief society or a family couldn't feed them instead of going out. The rational I was told is "we don't want to have church members do any extra Sunday work". I followed up with "it's no big deal to set a few extra plates, we have plenty". I was then told "We prefer to eat KFC". Every couple of months someone was sent to KFC or Subway on Sunday to feed the visiting authorities. .It is also used often in causal references within the church. I admit it depends on where you live and the LDS culture of your area. In places like the Intermountain West you wouldn't use "Joe Smith" because you might look like an "anti", other areas of the world there is nothing wrong with the shortened version of his name. Some LDS communities only use the title "Prophet" in front of his name. LDS cultures differ somewhat around the states and the world. Don't make any assumptions.

.Wine, Beer, and Whisky was produced in Utah heavily until prohibition. Beer was produced at more than 500 gallons a day. You can see some of the remains of the industry in Salt Lake City; the area of I-80 and 215 right before Parley's canyon produced some of the church's best alcohol. "Valley Tan" was the premier Whisky made in Utah. It was considered one of the better brands in the West and earned praise from many, including British adventurer Captain Richard F. Burton and Mark Twain. The Lion House served alcohol regularly, beer could be found at most church activities. By 1870 3/4 of the state's revenue came from alcohol sales. B. Young and many church leaders were known to be heavily involved in producing and drinking alcohol. For more info you can read "Beer in the Beehive: A History of Brewing in Utah". The info is easily available for anyone who looks into Utah history. With prohibition, these alcohol producers stopped. Utah was the deciding vote on ending prohibition. Mormons have a rich history in alcohol production & consumption. WOW was not a commandment, if it were I'd think JS wouldn't have put a bar in his house nor be known as a heavy drinker outside of the church. I've heard many church historians and lawyers debate this question, the common consensus is the WOW is not a commandment. Perhaps not the "only reason" but a very compelling coincidence.

Thanks for your responses, I appreciate it... For the record: Let me be clear; I am NOT engaging my son in spying or finding evidence etc. I have been very aware and careful of not putting the kids in the middle (no matter how hard they try to be). My son while playing with the computer found evidence and shared it with me (I still don't know how he changed all the settings to take pics of emails & websites). He is the one noticing his mother's behavior and then reacting. He saw his mother at the library several times using the computer and then her lying about it later. At first I tried to downplay and make excuses for his mother's actions, now I am more passive. The kids come to me and tell me things (ok, everything), I do not encourage it nor do I make a big deal about it to indicate her infidelity. My son makes comments about "mom's boyfriends" whenever he gets mad at her and catches her lying (usually about coming home late or not being at work when he called her). I bite my tongue and remain neutral. His mother never has denied it to him, she changes the subject which tells him his assumptions are right. I haven't told them about all the evidence I have or the times she lied about going to work and went on dates instead. I have in no way encouraged my kids to be allies in collecting evidence or making assumptions. They trust me and share with me all their thoughts and activities, they are very careful in what they share with their mom (because of her reactions). At some point, especially if we get divorced, the kids will find out about everything. They have already given me their assumptions (accurately) many times (without any prompts or confirmations from me); they are very observant and smart and have seen behavior changes in their mom. I don't think they have all the dots connected yet but as they get older they will be able to figure it out if they haven't already with me not saying anything. It is difficult for me simply because I can't share this info with the kids, nor do I have any support (family/friends) close by to confer with. I'm alone in this and understand I need to remain neutral where the kids are concerned even though they have a pretty good idea of what's going on.

There appears to be a difference in the WOW and present day church standards. Recommend questions do not stick to just the WOW, it includes asking about illegal drug use. The actual WOW allows beer and wine, strong drink was considered to be whisky and the like. The church was the largest producer and consumer of alcohol in the West in the 1800's, early 1900's, ZCMI sold alcohol well into the early 1980's there in Salt Lake. The only reason alcohol and drugs became a bigger part of the WOW is because the nephew of a prophet was killed because of alcohol. That is when things changed from a WOW to a commandment. The flip side for the WOW is eating meat "only in times of famine", I have yet to go to one church sponsored dinner that doesn't serve meat. (selective use of the revelation). Most do not know the truth behind the WOW "revelation" and the history involved at that time as well as where the WOW was copied from (not from God), almost word for word. (church hides this info). With that said I do agree with the basic principles of the WOW. Church policy will be that smoking marijuana will be considered against the WOW. Taking medical marijuana via pills will be allowed.

Going to the gym would be a personal choice. Joe Smith held wrestling competitions after church on Sundays so why not? What's good for the prophet should be good for everyone else. As far as the "making others work on sunday" reasoning is flawed. Today most businesses are open on sunday unless you live in a small Utah town where everyone is mormon. For some Saturday is their sabbath and therefore work on Sunday so using their business on a day they don't declare as the sabbath is fine. Even without that argument church leaders are always patronizing businesses on Sunday. Many food establishments are used by church leaders on Sunday. Until Pres. Kimball made the all famous statement of "no sunday buying" it was typical mormon sunday to go out to eat at a nice place and get ice cream on Sunday. I can't tell you how many times I've been sent to pick up fast food for general authorities and stake leaders on Sunday as well as go to the hardware store once in a while. Personal choice....

In regards to the underwear... She only wears it when going away from the house (without us). If it were for "female" problems I would assume they would be worn at home as well. There are also times when she is having her period and does not wear the underwear and years prior she never owned underwear outside of garments. She changes to garments as soon as she gets home. She does not go to a gym but runs in the morning in sweats and garments. Is it then fair to say she is wearing underwear for other reasons? Like plans to take off clothes for someone else? Additional note: I did find that she was going to some apartments before and after work. These apartments are where students typically live (and I would never go to). She has now disabled her phone GPS so I can't track her movements. Again, it appears she is doing something along the lines of an affair but all I have is her car being there assuming the GPS service was accurate.

I didn't plan on telling the story but perhaps you will have more insight. My kids are my priority which is why I'm being careful and trying to cover all basis with evidence rather than assumptions. My son is now 10 and my daughter is 12. My son has developed some anger issues directly tied to the situation and my wife's behaviors. My daughter tries to ignore and remove herself from the issue. She defends her mom on everything even though she knows something is going on. The affair and lying is only one part of the problem. She also displays anger, yells a lot, is sarcastic, negative, and can be verbally abusive to both me and the kids. She can also be very nice and loving. The kids say "just when we get used to her being mean she goes and does something nice". She is never happy and chooses to complain about everything. It isn't that she sees the glass half empty, she doesn't even see the glass. I'm a very patient and forgiving person which I believe is the only reason the marriage has worked. She has all the signs of a co-dependent, 80% of a borderline personality disorder, and 90% of an obsessive compulsive personality disorder. Think "Walking on eggshells" when around her 70+% of the time. And she denies that she is any part of the problem in our marriage. I finally got her to go to marriage counseling; she went in, told the counselor "my husband needs fixing". She never returned. A few years later she agreed to go to another therapist, as soon as the topic turned towards her part in the problems, she quit going. All the therapists agree that she has some major issues. To clarify "all", I worked in mental health and had supervision with several of them. I have learned that I am not the problem in the relationship except that I should have stopped her behavior years ago. She basically has never learned to love her self and therefore can not love anyone else, and I have been sympathetic to her "illness" trying to help her get better. She has said that she wants a divorce in the past but she never takes action, I assume she wants everyone to think I am the problem and that I filed not her. The reason or motive for now moving towards divorce is the "alleged affair" and I have discovered that she never loved me. I found some notes and letters of hers she wrote to friends weeks before we got married where she states "I don't love him but he is good husband material". I have also found out that friends and family knew she didn't love me, they just didn't feel it was their place to say anything. I do have divorce papers written but my children are my main priority so I need be sure. I know the kids would be best to be with me, so I need to make sure all the evidence is in to assure I am custodial parent if we divorce. The only reason the kids would want to be with their mother is because they are afraid she can't handle being alone (they have already expressed that). The past three years she has refused to go on any vacations with us and most activities. She always finds an excuse not to go. I have been the main caretaker of the children the past 8 years however, as the father that doesn't always count in court. The other reason I need to be clear about the facts is because I've been unemployed and have no money. She actually closed out our accounts a year ago, opened a new one without my name taking all the savings. I can't afford a PI, or another place to live for me and the kids until I get some work again which is difficult in this economy. I want to have all the facts and evidence so when I do find work I will have leverage to force her hand to either come clean and work on the marriage or call it quits. Evidence of an affair may also play a role in child support and alimony. I am getting over the numbness and starting to feel like my love for her is leaving; I deserve to be with someone that loves me and accepts me for me. Overall my priority is for the children's welfare and mental health. I am the stable one and have always been there for them. If she were to get custody, the kids would end up with her negative behaviors which are not healthy. I have no support so I'm doing this all on my own, perhaps being over protective but wanting to assure my kids have a positive outlook on life.