Brad O.
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Posts posted by Brad O.
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Republican because the recipients of the gifts need to work hard all year and be a good boy or girl. The lazy bad kids don't get squat.
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I've been in a "bah-humbug" mood this Christmas also. But it wasn't until I donated a gift to some abused/neglected kid on Toys for Tots that I snapped out of it. Providing service to others is definitely an avenue to acquire great happiness in life. However, I think it is critically important that we do our due diligence to ensure that we are actually helping someone in need rather than enabling them to continue feeding an addiction or encourage laziness. What is the point of performing service if it hurts the person you are serving?
Brad O..
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I'm sure some of you will be glad to hear that!
But I've discovered what I need to know. Let me say first, that I admire many things about the LDS faith. Particularly, I admire your sense of community. And, I admire the way you send your youngsters out into the world to challenge it's ways and beliefs, armed with nothing but their enthusiasm and a nameplate, incongruously titling them as 'elder'.
But I don't think I would make a good Mormon. The reason is this. Let us suppose X is things all Christians believe. Let us suppose Y is things only LDS people believe. Let us suppose Z is things only enlightened people believe. If I had the impression that X+Y=Z, then I would be inclined to lend more weight to your beliefs. But I don't get that impression.
What I was looking for was a sense of universal compassion, of the requirement for sacrifice to resolve the worlds ills, however 'unfair' that sacrifice might be. I was looking for some notion that all of us, however undeserving, have a stake in this enterprise called life, and all of us, however unbelieving, are brothers and sisters beloved by God, and beloved by each other. I say to you now, I haven't had that sense.
So, I will continue to seek, elsewhere, though I may drop in from time to time, to see how you all are getting along.
With love, 2RM.
I've seen it time and time again... people expect members of the LDS Church to be perfect. Someone should have informed this person that LDS members are not perfect from the very beginning and saved 2RM a lot of time.
Perfection does not exist anywhere, so if that is what you desire, you have a long search ahead of you. :)
Brad O.
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Folk Prophet, I don't intend to pass judgment on what you have said here. I don't have any objection to you having your opinion (even if I think it is lunacy :) ), but it gives a convenient springboard to describe why liberal mormons can have a hard time remaining in the church.
What you have to understand about liberal mormons leaving the church is that, while there may be doctrinal concerns chipping at the testimony, they usually leave because the social cost of staying is too great. Liberal mormons tend to make their exodus when people start to use opinions like Folk Prophet's as the standard against which worthiness and faithfulness are measured. This is needless and wrong. And it takes an enormous amount of commitment and dedication to remain in a church where you feel the members do not welcome or value you.
To share some examples of times when I have found my desire to be at church lessened:
- When I described on Facebook what I was giving up for Lent and a member of my ward sneered because, "Mormons don't do that."
- When I advocated for a strong fundraiser for the young women to purchase their own Girls Camp supplies (tents, cooking equipment, etc) and was met with resistance because, "why can't they just borrow everything from members?"
- When I openly boycotted the Elders' Quorum Thanksgiving Day football game because the invitation said, "If you don't come, perhaps you should consider attending Relief Society on Sunday."
Liberal mormons feel the eye rolls and the groans. I can tell when people in my ward are thinking "there goes MOE again. Does he ever get off his soapbox?" It makes church an uncomfortable space when everyone wishes you would just fit in with everyone else (or at least keep quiet).
I've been fortunate to have good people in my ward who share some of my views and can support me through the hard times (whether they know they do it or not). I also have a few shining examples of conservative/orthodox mormons who clearly don't agree with me on many things, but don't care either.
It boils down to this: for most humans, if they don't feel safe and accepted when they go to church, they can't feel the Spirit. And if they can't feel the Spirit, there is little incentive or benefit to coming. Which is why we must be better about accepting all of our members, liberal or conservative, and making them feel at home and cared for in our social circles. When we fail to make someone feel accepted, they will leave. That's as much a fault of ours as it is of theirs.
This makes a lot of sense to me. However, in any organization or group on this planet, there are going to be some people in that organization that will offend or push you away. I realize that people in my ward and in the Church are imperfect and not let that get in the way. Maybe it is easy for me since I'm naturally conservative. I guess if the Church was filled with "mostly-liberals", the situation would be much more challenging. :)
Brad O.
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The trouble with the "mean old conservative Mormons" line is liberals Mormons as described by TFP can be as bad. If you aren't looser with your beliefs and faith you are pitied, sneered at, and considered uneducated/stunted in your intellectual and philosophical growth. Many of these people desire to rid the Church of many of its core doctrines and despise anyone with a traditional testimony.
Thank you for your comments.
Jane_doe asked me if there are any specific areas coming up with my "liberal-minded" relatives. I prefer not to get into specifics because I don't want this thread to evolved into discussing these topics as they've all been discussed here before. I can say that I have noticed a combative and hostile attitude towards various Church policies. I don't agree with every Church policy myself... however I do realize that these policies are necessary, just as policies are necessary in any organization. My homeowner's association and place of business have policies that I don't agree with also, but I realize that these policies are necessary for a large number of different-minded people to co-exist as a community.
Backroads brings up a major cause of my frustration.... I see many "liberal-minded" people demanding changes in the Church, which I think is reprehensible. This is something I'm seeing more and more in American society in general too.... 1. A person joins a religion or other group 2. That person doesn't like one or more things about that religion or group 3. That person accuses the religion or group of being unfair, racist, sexist, or similar to manipulate that religion or group to change to accommodate their specific desires. As a "mostly conservative-minded" person, this type of behavior angers me greatly. I think anger is really the only reasonable reaction to behavior such as this.
Brad O.
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Hi,
I'm LDS and I have a "mostly-conservative" mind. This means I consider myself 25% liberal and 75% conservative. Over the past few years, nearly everyone in my immediate family who has a "mostly-liberal" mind has fallen away from the Church (and I'm not exaggerating.)
Before they fell away, some of them put forth great effort to convince me that you can be liberal and a member of the LDS church. Needless to say, now I am almost completely convinced of the opposite.
This whole situation troubles me greatly and I find myself agonizing over it regularly. I wish my family could all just be happy members of the Church so we could continue to have that in common. At this point, I never even talk to my family about the Church except maybe mention that I gave a talk or one of my kids gave a talk. It feels weird because we used to talk about the gospel all the time.
This is going to sound bad, but my experiences with my family has given me an extremely negative and tainted view of being "mostly-liberal." I guess the way I look at it is that if being "mostly-liberal" means you reject and get offended by the great things taught by the Church, being "mostly-liberal" must be a bad thing. I do not understand the hostility towards the Church from my family in recent years at all and I think they are just being manipulated and misled.
Is my conclusion wrong? Is it possible to have a "mostly-liberal" mind and be a happy member of the Church.
Brad O.
Is it possible to be liberal and LDS?
in General Discussion
Posted
I'd be interested to know how many LDS members consider themselves more than 50% liberal. I bet that number is 10% or less.
Each person I know who has left the Church did so as a result of an extremely liberal social issue. That is the whole reason I asked the original question.
Brad O.