Newbert_Zero

How was Christ perfect from the beggining though. Isn't it really weird that it just so happens that just one person was perfect which is exactly what God needed? I don't think it was coincidence.

I wonder how Christ was perfect from the beggining when we were just intellegences. What would God have done if Christ never was. Without a perfect being the plan wouldent have worked either.

Please do that is the other thing I am very interested to learn about. Ive been wondering if there were different plans.

Wow I found an amazing article that I just skimmed through that covers some of the stuff we have been talking about. Sombody on the aliens thread mentioned this article. It is really interesting you guys should read it. http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

I wonder though if there were different plans that were actually good plans though. obviously satans plan was distorted and wouldn't have worked but i wonder if there were other plans that actually worked. Like what if our God went through a different plan and wanted to use a different plan on us but satan didn't think it would work so thats why he tried to stop it. Although if what i'm saying was true it makes me wonder why satan would questions Gods Infinite wisdom when God made a plan. I wonder if when (if we do) become Gods if we will have to develop our own plan too.

In the story of the stripling warriors. Nope not the stripling warriors, nope not the mothers who taught there sons. But the fathers who dyed because they made a covenant of peace. I thought it was so touching that because they refused to fight there enemies were so touched they stopped fighting and some converted. Only a real man could go into a battle but to go into a battle and refuse to fight back takes the definition of a true man to a whole new level.

basically im saying if satan understood 2 nephi 2 you'd think he would just decide to sit around and do nothing. Id recomend reading it again if you havent done so recently. its one of my favorite scriptures.

finally people realize what i'm talking about and this topic is becoming more interesting. Personally if I was satan i would just sit there and do nothing so that Gods plan wouldn't work you'd think satan would get more satisfaction out of that than letting progression continue with some people failing. Lol i wonder if God is sitting in heaven laughing at satans futile attempts to thwart his plan when he is really helping it progress. Because without satan the plan wouldn't have worked. My second point was that perhaps our God became a God through a different plan? do you think that its possible? perhaps God became God through a different plan and satan thought the plan of salvation wouldn't work. Because if there was always a plan of salvation why would satan question that it would work this time? I have a feeling people wont understand my second point either. Do you mean rather than satan? Thats pretty interesting I never thought about how satan knew about our carnal desires but it makes sence now.

but i dont understand why he doesent just sit back and do nothing because wouldent that completly stop the plan and our progression would come to a halt? maybe its because of pride like sixpack said but it just doesent make sence why he would do that. Maybe God needed a tempter for the plan and satan agreed that he would do it just to prove the plan wouldent work? just thinking.

thank you sixpack that makes sense to me two. I don't know if I wrote my origonal post clearly enough because some other people don't seem to understand what i'm trying to say. Basically I am wondering why satan is helping Gods plan work when we know that he wants Gods plan to fail. And it seems like sixpack is the only one who understands what I'm trying to say. Again its sortof a hard thing to explain and I'm not very good at explaining things so I hope you guys can understand what I'm trying to say.

Hello?!!!! thats what ive been trying to say I swear nobody is listening exept for sixpack. I dont understand why satans plan was for us to not experience pain, happiness, joy, sadness, or anything else but then he tries to ruin gods plan be being the provider of pain sadness and temptation. Do you understand what i am trying to say? Its like if person A needed water for a plan to work and person B says you dont need water so he turns around and gives person A water to ruin his plan. It doesent make sence. Im asking why satan provided a part of the plan God needed. Do you still not understand what im trying to say? I think sixpack is the only one who understands what im trying to say.

I know thats exactly my point if you read my post. wich would mean that satan is helping the plan but he is trying to fight against it. hence the contradiction. I meant for this thread to be not though provoking not being told what i already know. sorry if that sounded harsh but it sounds like you didnt read my post.

lol the funny thing is that black people dont like being called african american. think about it would you like being called european american? or would you prefer being called white? people who think black people dont like being called black most likely dont know very many black people and think black people are ashamed of their own skin color and dont want to be called black.

Yes but opposition is an essential part of agency and satan was against agency so why would satan create opposition if it was needed for the plan to work?

well it sure seems like he is if what he is doing is actually helping God.

lol at this thread. I have two dogs a cat and i had a parrot. Btw how many pets do you have (speaking to the topic creator)

(nm sombody deleted there comment)

I've been thinking about this for a while and i realized that either i don't understand this right or satan is contradicting himself. Because satan was against the plan of salvation and he didn't want us to have agency right. It is also said somewhere in second nephi that there must be opposition in all things because if we didn't know bad we wouldn't know good. So if lucifer never became satan gods plan wouldn't have worked because we wouldn't be tempted and we wouldn't have had the experiences and earth that we go through now. So I'm wondering if satan is just dumb and didn't realize that he was helping Gods plan or if he did realize it and he is actually working with God to make his plan work, which sounds really weird. Another thing I was thinking about is this. We are supposed to become like God right? that implies that God was once like us and had to become a God too. If it is a cycle then why did we have a meeting in heaven about the plan of salvation if thats the way its always been? Perhaps our God became a God using a different way such as the plan of somthing and Satan thought that the plan of salvation wouldn't work and that is why he rebelled and tryed to prove that it wouldent work which brings me back to my first thought. Wow after reading what I wrote it sounds very confusing but just try to understand what I'm saying and ask me If you don't know what I'm talking about.

the only problem with carbon dating is they find skeletal remains and claim it 3\4 monkey man from 20,00000 bc and he is a link between us and the ape, when in fact he can't be more than 7000 and just has a promanent brow bone. thank you for all the answers. they have been a help, i appreciate it. I personally believe that carbon dating is real and that the age of the earth is in fact as old as the scientists say. The whole 7k year thing is a silly interpretation of bible lineage taken too literal. I also believe that evolution exists. My personal belief if that Heavenly Father had a plan and he executed it.....however long it took him and however he did it is up to him. I read a quote from one of the past presidents of the church that said something along the lines of: " It is not our goal to decide how old the earth is, it has nothing to do with the plan of salvation. We leave the dating of the earth to the scientist, biologists, etc.". I find that if you look hard enough you will find that creationism can go hand in hand with what scientists have been saying for some time. I agree Hey Yed, One thing to consider, which is lost on most people that blindly follow what scientists, or celebs, or the guy down the street say, is that perhaps, PERHAPS, the Lord commanded Noah to gather a main type of each group which then evolved into various animals of the same species. For example, take a wolf and from there the dogs we have evolved, etc. One other thing: I was watching Nature a couple of weeks ago (I like the show because it is interesting, as long as you ignore the "humans are responsible for the destruction of the planet and mother nature is supreme" tilt.) and they were talking about dogs, and the fact that as little as 110 years ago there were only about 40 types of dogs, and then in Victorian England it became very fashionable to begin cross breeding, etc., to develop "designer dogs" to where we now have something like 400 recognized breeds (I think it is around 400). They mentioned the English Bulldog, which looked completely different 110 years ago then what it does today. So, to me it doesn't take a strain of the imagination to think that Noah could have put one type of a species on the ark and then let God handle the evolution back to the differing strains w/in the species... That what i belive two. I dont understand why people cant belive that evolution is a tool God uses instead of evolution vs. creationism why cant both be true and God just uses evolution to create more species.

Alot of the families in our ward and a couple from another ward went to Nauvoo and it was the most amazing trip in our life! We did went to all the tours and went to carthage and then we saw the movie Joseph Smith prophet of restoration and we felt the spirit so strongly. We then had a testimony meeting and we felt the spirit even stronger. Let me tell you that trip was better than efy (i cant belive i just said that) but its true. seriously though if you havent seen the Joseph smith movie go see it. The trip was worth it just for that alone.

thanks for that. What an amazing man.

at this topic

I just want you to know i hope for the best for you and your son mamacat. Again the church is true the members some times arnet. I dont really have any good advice other than to just hang in there and keep praying and listening to the advice that people already gave in this thread. Just hang in there and things will get better im sure of it. I hope you can at least feel welcome here!

Im so glad I could help.

Heres the link to the video i found of it.