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  1. Yes, Christ was harsh many times, but mainly to the Pharisees who were flat out against him. I am not against Christ, I am trying to learn more, and I learn more through open discussion and hashing out ideas. Christ was kind to those who were trying to be faithful but struggling. When I challenged the oft-repeated notion of garments just being a "reminder" and we wear it because we "promised", people got hostile. That's why I dropped the "lemming" comment. Too often in the church, we cannot challenge the status quo without being attacked. I was trying to see if people had any actual deep ideas or testimony about the garment. Going to the temple is just part of it because it's all in my head there, I find my mind really opens up when I can talk about things with people. Based on the responses in this thread, I still think a lot of you haven't really given much thought to why you wear the garment and what Christ wants you to get out of it. Even after I pointed out how terribly some of you were acting, the result was still just disingenuous, backhanded support. And no apologies. Anatess, you ended with saying you hope I get my testimony, but you couldn't resist pointing out how I "torpedoed" you. Well, I felt the same way about your comments. I agree your initial comments were nice, but later you responded with a lot of "that's never been a problem for me", as if that actually proved something, and added a bunch of rude and petty stuff. Your initial suggestions were useful, but when I challenged some of your viewpoints, the hostility came out. I started the thread, but I didn't start the hostility. Thanks to those who responded kindly.
  2. Also, anatess, maybe you should consider the garments you are wearing right now and ask yourself, "Are you remembering Christ right now?" Are your responses how He would respond to me? You are not being a very good example of how garments help you to behave better right now.
  3. Then don't say anything. Two wrongs don't make a right.
  4. Another example of a rude and disparaging comment. No, I can't gain a testimony from you, but bearing your testimony helps strengthen others. That's why we have fast and testimony meeting. Thank you for sharing your story about your grandmother, though. That is nice. My response is that I have not found garments helpful in that regard. Even during the time when they didn't bother me. I am not being critical here, I am just saying that what they are for you is not what they are for me. In that case, you should just move on because you can't help me. My problem is with comments like these: Who said anything about money? And how dare you assume that I am that petty? And you don't even know if the last statement is true, that is an opinion. If you can't respond with charity, then don't say anything at all.
  5. First of all, I would like to thank the maybe one or two people who have actually responded kindly. A lot of you could take a lesson from SpiritDragon. I started this thread because I was hoping some people would bear a testimony or offer some insight that I haven't already thought of. Comments like this: and this: (for the record, Leah, I said his/her comment was judgmental, not that the commenter was judgmental) and this: don't help. Remember the Lord said, "When you are converted, strengthen thy brethren." He didn't say, "When you are converted, criticize and chastize your brethren for not being as converted as you are." Many of you (like the three I quoted above) have displayed the type of reaction and attitude that drive many away from the church. Rather than encouraging me and showing charity, you have been accusatory, sarcastic, and critical. It makes me wonder if you guys really have a testimony of wearing the garment since you either have nothing uplifting to say about the issue, or when I challenge your ideas, you react poorly. If you have an experience of how the garment has really helped you, or a time when you struggled with it and overcame that trial and how that changed your life, then please share it. It would help me. But none of you have done this. Not even the people who are nice can say anything like this. All I have heard are ways to tolerate wearing it. So I am still left to wonder, "What exactly are the blessings associated with this commandment?", i.e. I want more knowledge about the garment. But there isn't much out there about it, so that's why I started this thread. And before you flare up and go on a tirade, I was taught that every commandment has an associated blessing. And wanting to know what that blessing is is not something worthy of chastisement, it's showing a desire for further knowledge and understanding. If you don't have that knowledge, or anything nice to say, then just shut your mouth and move on.
  6. More evidence of how un-lady-friendly garments are. I feel for you. I wish I knew who designed them. I wish we could just call a meeting and get something done about this. Sure, we can give feedback on the website, but how long until something is actually done? So frustrating.
  7. I am venting, yes, but also I am confused. I don't think that garments are *meant* to be uncomfortable, so I am confused as to why they are and why there are so few options to increase the comfort and practicality. Like I said, I have been ok with garments for many years, but only lately have started to get irritated by them. This, coupled with the fact that I have no testimony to bear of wearing the garment has lead me to question, "Why am I wearing these?", or "what purpose did God have in mind by asking us to wear these?" While some of you have given me good suggestions for dealing with wearing the garment, none of you have given me any real insight as to why we wear them. Rather, I feel like some of you have just jumped all over me for questioning and trying to seek a deeper understanding. It's easy to say "it's a covenant" and tell me get over it, but honestly I don't think this is how God would respond in your place. Pretty much all of the revelations in D+C were in responses to questions. Sometimes God said "be content for now", but sometimes he actually gave more knowledge. You don't know until you ask. I try to compare wearing the garment to other commandments like the word of wisdom. The reason for the WoW is quite obvious, it is to increase our physical and mental strength and health. I am wondering if there is something similar going on with the garment. Does it help our bodies somehow? Is there some scientific reason behind wearing it that I just haven't heard of or thought of? What exactly is meant by the saying it is a "shield and a protection"? I am not satisfied with just saying that it is a "reminder", or that it helps me to behave better. I had that before I was endowed. I feel like there is something more to it than that. I was hoping for some personal experiences to help bolster my testimony, but all I find here is the same "lemming" attitude of just "do what you're told and don't question it." And not a single word of support.
  8. This is a good comment. It's just that I have been told that following a commandment increases your testimony of it, and since it has been the reverse with garments, I'm wondering, "What gives?" Even before I started getting super annoyed with them, at most I only found them tolerable. If the purpose really is just to serve as a reminder and a bad-behavior deterrent, then I have to say the discomfort just isn't worth it to me, because those ends can be achieved by other means.
  9. I can and do deny this. Just compare the 1960s version of For Strength of Youth with today's version. "Modesty" in clothing changes over time. You think wearing capri pants over short shorts in modest? Go back in time 200 years when showing your ankle was scandalous. Why is it ok we show our ankle now? Modesty in clothing has to with culture, tradition, and people's personal perceptions. There is no doctrine on exactly how much skin we should cover up, as far as I know. I do agree that showing too much is distracting though, and there are only certain times and places that really justify revealing clothing, but this has to do with practicality and sensibility. Not modesty. Read the article I referenced above, it says it all.
  10. When I got my garments, I was told to wear them under the bra. But if you wear them over, then the symbols show through the clothing and make it look like your nipples are showing. And unfortunately, I am too "well-endowed" to go without a bra. I don't like the Carinessa material either, like the drisilque, it doesn't breathe. I tried wearing panties under the garment with a pad, but I got way too hot and sweaty. And really, it is ridiculous. Why should we have to wear two pairs of underwear? I think they could design the garments to work with feminine pads. Another problem too though is that garments don't sit as close to your body as panties do, so that's another reason pads feel insecure. It just doesn't work! As for bodies acclimating, I don't buy that at all. My husband has worn them for years and is constantly over-heated. I find I behave better when I am not irritated by uncomfortable clothing. One of those covenants being the law of chastity. I'm overly focused on the fit because it is ridiculous, impractical, and uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with wearing special underwear, but I do have a problem when it hampers the quality of my life. Your comment here is highly judgmental.
  11. There was a time in my life when my husband and I were living in separate states. I remained "under the radar" in the local ward until I had to renew my temple recommend. Not soon after, they extended me a calling to work in the Primary. I remember at the time feeling inclined to say no, because I was becoming friends with a girl my age in RS and felt I needed to be with the sisters since I was toughing it on my own, but you are not "supposed" to do say no, so I said yes. Well, later, I hit rock bottom when I realized how lonely I was by myself and my job became difficult to the point where I pretty much asked them to let me go (I couldn't quit because I would have had to pay back moving expenses). I realized then that I really should have said no to the calling so I could have forged more relationships with the sisters and become more known in the ward. Fast forward to now. My husband and I were asked by the Primary to team teach. We had done this in our last ward, and we hated it, so we turned them down flat. It wasn't about the kids. It just felt like a constant chore and I did all the work while my husband complained. Just didn't want to go back there again. So if you don't want to, you don't feel right about it, just turn it down.
  12. Thanks for the responses so far. I am trying to see what more there is to garments besides being a reminder. We have so many other reminders in the church. But still, I would think the bottoms would be enough. This is kind of off-topic, but modesty is not about the amount of skin you are showing. Check out this article: Also, your comments show how there is this idea in the church that women are somehow responsible for the thoughts of men. I am not saying it isn't a good idea to dress "modestly", as we define it, but I don't think garments have anything to do with it, as I couldn't dress "immodestly" as a teenager anyway. In the temple, we learn that they are to be a "shield and protection", not a means to hide our tempting figures. Sure, you could argue that by hiding our figures we are making ourselves less desirable to leches and rapists, but that is speculation and not doctrine. Your ideas reflect an attitude that women should be ashamed of their bodies. Why don't we all just wear a burka? I live 2 hours away from the closest temple. It is hard to go because we have to find child care as well. So yes, that is a problem. Thanks for suggesting the temple matron, I didn't think of that. I guess I am looking for a practical blessing of wearing garments. Like tithing, Word of wisdom, church attendance, I can see and understand why. And by living those commandments I can see the blessings. But garments? After living this commandment for several years, I am not sure what the blessings are. Most of the time it feels like torture. They say by living a commandment, you gain a testimony of it, but it has been the opposite with garments.
  13. So, tons of people have already replied. I didn't read the responses, so I apologize if I am echoing what other people say. My brother went sour on the church in his teens, probably also around 13 or 14. My parents pushed it on him and it only made things worse. He is still a good kid and all, but very anti-church. My advice: Be accepting and supportive. It sounds like he is struggling to find himself and the truth. He is old enough to decide whether or not to go to church and learn and study about other religions, so let him make those decisions for himself. Join him in his research and learn together. If he decides the church isn't for him right now, just be the same, loving parents as always. Don't try to force it down his throat, don't drop hints, don't make lectures, don't try to persuade, just continue life as normal and teach by example. Everyone is on their own path and timeline to the truth. What will help your son the most is respecting where he is at in his journey and supporting him as he learns things for himself.
  14. I have been endowed for some years now, but lately have really started contemplating the garment. It started when I was in China for several weeks in a very hot and humid place and wearing them was unbearable. Then I had the thought, what if I was in a missionary discussion and the missionaries asked me to share my testimony of wearing the garment with the investigator/new member? I realized then that I would have nothing positive to say, i.e. I have worn garments for all these years and have no idea what blessings it has provided me. As far as I can tell, the purpose of garments are twofold: First, to remind us of our temple covenants, and second, to keep us from breaking the law of chastity. But is it really that necessary? I never had chastity problems before I was endowed, and there are other things we could wear to remind us of our covenants. Garments seem kind of like a drastic way to achieve these ends. Just the bottoms would suffice. Even now back in the U.S., in a much less humid place, I still get overheated and irritated wearing them. They are also not lady-friendly, and I am not talking about fashion. They bunch up under your bra so you have to adjust it often, the legs roll up when you put on pants and you have to push them back down, and you can't use feminine pads with them because they don't stay in place. Also, I have broad shoulders so the sleeves don't cover my shoulders like they're supposed to. I wonder if this means if I can wear sleeveless things? My thighs are large and the leg openings are often too narrow and tight and bite into my flesh. To order larger ones would mean something too big in the waist. This begs the argument there are so many different body types out there, they can't design garments that are comfortable for everyone. The fabrics bother me too. The nylon tops stick to my skin, the cotton tops make me feel too hot, the mesh was like wearing cardboard and incredibly itchy and also hot. The lace chafes my back. And don't get me started on the nursing tops. They are absolutely horrendous. I want to bring these issues up within the church to see if garments can be redesigned to better suit the needs of women and to be more comfortable, but who can I talk to? My bishop? Besides the fact that it is ridiculous to have to talk about my UNDERWEAR with a man old enough to be my father, what can he really do? Just tell me to "have faith" and deal with it? I am wondering if any other people have experienced these problems and how they dealt with them.