ProDeo

Which is? It's not that I don't understand, it's more that I have troubles believing Mr. Smith.

person0, this is truly scaring stuff for a Protestant, can you tell me why there is nothing in the OT and NT of any of this? Nevertheless I want to thank you for the time and energy you put in your post to explain the LDS perspective. Also - I can't find the evidence in the Bible, God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, Can you?

Context was why Jesus as only one (per John 8:58 and 17:5) was aware of His life in heaven.

Wow........... It's the exact question that came up in my mind in 2008 and I started praying for an answer. I also joined a Bible Forum and that was my first post, why did God create us? And I was (and still am) somewhat amazed that during the years of my participation (I still go there) there is little interest in the subject among Protestants. Nevertheless during the years I got bits and pieces and currently have 2 theories (I don't dare to call them beliefs yet), one with pre-mortal life and one without, the Protestants version so to say. Allow me to think first about what you wrote before I will comment.

Perhaps because Jesus was without sin? Or, and I am not sure what your beliefs are on this subject, because Jesus was God incarnated in the flesh?

Oh well, those individual interpretations are often a pain indeed. Not so long ago in another forum John 12:32 came up [ 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself. ] and there were 5 (!!) different interpretations by the people who participated in that thread.

Yes it helps to understand your belief system better. Wish the Jeremiah passage was conclusive then I don't have to doubt any longer. Jeremiah was indeed fore-ordained but that doesn't proof pre-mortal live. The same can be said about John the Baptist (Mal 4:5), even Judas. Part of fore-ordained is God's mysterious ability to look ahead in time, prohecies.

Perhaps the (or part of the) answer is that Jesus was the only one who was aware of His life in heaven. John 8:58, 17:5

Yep. Did that, still do.

I had to look it up, quite some view.

What I meant was that's impossible for me to write more than 1 or 2 (significant) postings as a) there is so many new information to process and b) I am a bit handicapped because English isn't my native language. I am a Dutchie and you know what is said: as a finishing touch God created the Dutch

I think I can answer your question. Coming from a Protestant background changing opinion on such a fundamental, new and mind blowing subject (called heresy in my congregation) is not something one does overnight, it's a process. I can't find convincing evidence in the Christian Bible but when I change opinion I want it to fit into and in harmony with the principles of the Christian Bible, not with external writings that IMO conflict the Christian Bible. So yes, I see a conflict God wanting us into sinful bodies, then punish us for the sins that come with it. 2 quotes from LDS teachings: Both are in direct conflict with the Christian Bible. Here is what I can believe -- if the subject is pre-mortal life-- is not in conflict, although an argument from silence, like your additional writings. We know the first sin in was not committed by A&E but by the devil, the satanic rebellion. And he lured us innocent agencies into his lies, like A&E in the garden. As a result God created Earth as a (sort of) bootcamp to teach us (those who were disobedient) a lesson to face the consequences of disobedience, to experience both good and evil and learn, much alike what is written in your chapter 10, The Purpose of Earth Life. Jesus being the Saviour of the World. ~~~~~~~~~~ PS, it's impossible for me to answer each one you. PS2, I can't find a preview button, only a submit button, do I need new glasses?

Fair enough. It's (indeed) maybe a good idea to tell some of my background and why I took the courage (as a mainstream Christian) to post what I have posted in a LDS forum so here goes... Several years ago I came to the conclusion that there are -- how does one call that respectfully? -- difficulties (there I said it) with some of the mainstream Christian teachings. I also learned about Origen and his theory of pre-existence, or as you used to call it, pre-mortal life. After the logical (and natural) initial denial rejecting it as heresy it kept itching and the longer I thought about it the more sense it started to make, despite there (IMO) is no Biblical evidence for it which doesn't automatically mean it can't be true. And I became aware of Mormonism and that pre-mortal life is a main pillar of your belief system. Interesting... But when I started to read about the contents of the doctrine it didn't feel right, several questions came up and after a long time of thinking I finally took the step and ask. And so I arrived here in the hope I will learn something. One of those questions, why would I -- living in the presence of God -- want to go into a sinful body and displease the Lord? Because no matter what your beliefs are about Original Sin sooner or later we are all start to sin. I just can't believe a loving God would force the creatures He loves into such a position and then blame them for being sinners. I would rather choose to remain in His holy presence. But what I have read, that's not a wise option, or?

Allow me to ask, how does this address the 2 points I made? In more detail then. Unless I am mistaken about the Mormon doctrine - we were all living in the presence, love and glory of the Father and at some point Father God (popularly stated) said - You guys need redemption. And - I am going to sent you to Earth, erase your memory, you live and then you die. Why would a loving God do that? Seems to me the logical answer is that we sinned (notable) in His presence. And we know from Scripture that the penalty of sin is death. It's only then pre-existence is making sense to me. If pre-existence is true is of course another matter :-)

I am aware of most of these passages from the Christian Bible as (alleged) evidence for pre-existence but I don't find them convincing, As for the other quotes you gave from the books you hold sacred (Abraham, Moses) then yes, they teach pre-existence. So I would say, it comes down if you believe Mr. Smith is a trustable source or not, do I get that right?

From the video: This doctrine of premortal life was known to ancient Christians. For nearly five hundred years the doctrine was taught, but it was then rejected as a heresy by a clergy that had slipped into the Dark Ages of apostasy. Can you tell me which period that was? Perhaps Mr. Packer refers to the early church father Origen?

Thank you for all the replies, it's quite overwhelming and I don't know where to start. But allow me to comment of this speech. A quote: As declared in “The Family, a Proclamation to the World,” each of us “is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents” with “a divine nature and destiny.”11 In a premortal council, Heavenly Father explained to us His plan of redemption. Why the need for redemption? Did the agencies (we) something wrong? Perhaps sinned? And a few sentences later: But the plan was not without risk: if we chose in mortality not to live according to God’s eternal laws, we would receive something less than eternal life. I see another contradiction, in Genesis we read God created a world without death. Death only entered God's creation because of the disobedience of A&E.

I an new (first post) and a Protestant, well mainly, just a Christian would fit better. I am interested in the Mormon doctrine of Premortal Life. When I look at Chapter 6: Our Premortal Life I read: Reading the web-page no Scripture is offered, not even Biblical reasoning, not even philosophical reasoning, just a statement that premortal existence is a fact and if you don't get it you are making no sense, you are being preposterous. That's not very convincing. Someone willing to elaborate?