Nissan

Christianity in the US is dying literally and rapidly. Only about 40 percent of millenials are Christian and it is rapidly diving. Inside the church about 40 precent of millenials believe in homosexuality. Demographics is destiny. Either the church in the us massively shrinks as it cuts out the cancer or the cancer takes over the body.

What you are saying is not logical. I understand it is really hard for the older generation to understand what is occurring. All an organization or the body of Christ or the church all it is is a collection of individuals. Think of a ward. You are making the claim that in a ward only individuals can apostasize but not the entire ward. Okay a ward is made up of 150 members. One stays in church but starts apostasizing you still have 149. What if 10 or 50 or 100. Clearly at some point over you reach a critical mass of individuals who apostasize things are going to change. What is true at a ward level is true at a stake, area and general church. Now what can prevent it. Well the Body of Christ is like a living entity. If apostosy is spreading like a cancer What should you do? Cut it off. Better to be without a finger than the entire body die. The Church did that with homosexuality it tried to cut out the cancer. And the membership rejected the cancer being cut out.

I also have a testimony that this is His Church. Christ will not divorce us.... But we can most certainly go whoring after other gods

So as a church body we are guaranteed to not become a wicked people?

Why would Christ need to come again? The pattern is clear, every time He has come it is to set His house in order.

The problem is that apostasy is the end result, not the beginning. General apostasy comes about because of general wickedness. It has nothing to do with follow the leader, but with righteousness. A righteous people will not fall into apostasy a wicked people will automatically fall into it. And that had nothing to do with follow the leader, but with following Christ.

Why not? What will prevent it?

You are correct, thank you.

Oh it will happen. I don't think it will be sanctioned from the top initially. All you need is a few Bishops a few stake presidents and a temple president. Bishops and SPs to sign the recommends and a TP to do the sealing. If members found out, well we should just shut up about it bc it falls outside our lane. But you have one thing incorrect, it not because of homosexuality that churches are plummiting. It's the other way around. Church attendence rates and faith is plummiting and therefore churches are changing to try and get back people they have lost. The product so to speak isn't selling anymore, so churches are changing the product.

I really don't understand the belief that the Church cannot fall into apostasy. It is not the pattern in scriptures. It sets us up as better more righteous more privileged more everything than anyone who had gone before. The only thing in scripture is that the priesthood will not be taken away. But today doesn't mean apostasy churchwide couldn't happen. In the book of Mormon. King Noah's priest had the priesthood. Alma was a wicked priest who had the priesthood. He didn't need it confired upon him by someone else because he already had it.... But the people of Noah were rebellious and in apostasy bc they were wicked. It's pretty easy to see the patterns.

Yes a good portion of Orthodox members would flip on a dime. It means we have no principles except one.

More people are concerned about not making waves vs standing in principles. We have some serious misunderstanding in this church with regards to members responsibility. For many members, the entirety of the gospel is boiled down to follow the leader. It doesn't matter what he says or does it doesn't matter that the current leader could reverse course 180 degrees from yesterday just follow him. That's not healthy. It boils down to a cult like mentality. It's not the way they church is set up and it's not the pattern of the scriptures. The leader could say we should all cut off our pinkies and members would do it. It reduces being a member in this church to an un thinking robot. The leaders are the very incarnation of Christ... Except they have never said that. Not a single member of the Q15 today proclaims they have seen Him. Not a single one claims they have had visions of Him.

I once lived there. The DC temple is a major temple. It is the flagship temple out east. So it is one step below this happening at say Temple Square. It affects more than just the temple district.

Not yet, but when the wind is blowing and the sky is dark with clouds and there is thunder and lightening in the distance, it might be a good idea to grab a raincoat and make sure your lightening rod is securly attached to the house and the storm shelter ready to go. Pray to God the storm doesn't hit but be ready if it does.

The question is though what happens when it is your temple district, when it is your Bishop, when it is your stake president? Then what do you do? It would be advisable to start planning now what actions or non actions you will take so when it comes you are prepared.

I have nothing further to say to you. You called me prideful and made assumptions about my character. Good day.

It's fascinating to me. One cannot stand for truth in the Church these days without being called prideful arrogant self righteous or any other number of names.

Now you go twisting my words again. I'm not going to carry on a conversation with someone who does that. You are being disengenious. You have called me prideful and making assumptions. You should look in the mirror. Good day.

Maybe you aren't looking hard enough maybe you are blind to it... But when I'm told the number one issues in my stake in the youth is LGBTQ issues...not porn but sexual identity issues. It's only a matter of time until it knocks on your front door. And no kid needs to be confronted with this crap at 12-13-14. They should worry more about their grades or playing baseball not this crap. That's why I homeschool. Yet or doesn't do me any good to homeschool just to have my kids be confronted with this utter filth in church, which should be a refuge. Except it's becoming hostile.

And it's very dangerous of you to assume that I think you weren't in this situation. Which doesn't answer my question. How should one do what you suggest?

You shouldn't be making these type of rookie errors if you are at that level. A blind man could see making this call would have many people at the very least scratching the head and at the most ticked off. Yes everyone makes mistakes but at some level it's called incompetent.

Then the poor slub doesn't need or should be in a position of authority. I expect my leadership to be competent if whoever made this decision doesn't have the foresight or ability to understand the problems they cause by making this type of a decision, then they shouldn't be in that position to begin with!

It's all fun and games about being a "right" way until as a parent you think my God, my children......

Which is how precisely? You say this but you don't see the real world problems. I have children about to be teenagers. Should I just shut up and say follow the leader when a homosexuals are prancing around there temple visitors center? At what point does follow the leader, lead my children's soul down to hell because the bought into their false ideology? This isn't theoretical it's happening now.

This is a war, it's an ideological war inside the church being fought. Those who are for homosexuality currently have the advantage because they are willing to be forceful in the positions and relentless in their pursuit. Those who oppose them, simply say, we should follow the leadership. Which means they don't fight back against the ideology. They don't present arguments not theology nor anything which pushes back. It's an asymmetrical war. Maybe they don't push back, because in the back of their minds they wonder if things really could change and no one wants to look stupid when the tide changes. So those who advocate for homosexual use tactics the opposing side refuses to use. So in the battle of wills, those who advocate for homosexual are winning. They gain a larger and larger percentage of converts to their ideology. And the only thing those who oppose do is say follow the leader. It's a losing strategy for the hearts and minds and souls of men.