RodAZ

Hi Gwen. You said, "you being said for reason to say something, i know you said this was about your friend. " I don't quite understand that. This is very real and not just to say something. I guess he's between a rock and a hard place and is thinking about withdrawing his name because the disiplinary council is taking so long to happen. It is REAL. Thanks for your comments and thoughts.

Thanks Skalen, You are right, but we were wondering about the " possibility of returning to the light." if you request your name is withdrawn. Maybe the better question would be which is BETTER! I appreciate your words

I was wondering what you thought was worse, Excommunication OR requesting to have your name taken off the records of the church? When someone is facing a disciplinary council they might have a decision of excommunication or requesting they be removed? Thanks for your advice and feedback. My friend is facing a big decision. RodAZ

I could recommend a Church History book that I (blush) think covers LDS Church History in a very human and entertaining way. That book has received many comments and reviews from readers that it helped them get to know the characters in our history. It is 112 human drama stories about individuals and events in Church History. It is touching, entertaining, and will brighten your outlook on the subject. Every time. Little known stories in Church History, early history as well as fairly recent. Some stories are thought provoking, or controversial, but all will move you to further interest in Mormon History. For Example: Did you know that there was a Mormon lady on the Titanic, and her family in Provo didn't know if she'd survived or not. Touching! There was an LDS family with the Donnor-Reed party that crossed through the Salt Lake Valley (preparing a trail for Brigham and his party that greatly assisted them) and kept going on across the Salt Flats into the Sierra Nevadas, where they were badly snowed in. The mother of that Mormon family, interesting woman that she was, suffered and her fate is very interesting. Parley, Warren Phelps and King Follet escaped from Jail on the 4th of July. What a fun adventure that was. Anyway, I could go on and on about this book. I wrote it (blush again). I love the stories, I love the individuals in Church History. You will KNOW the PEOPLE in Church History after reading these stories. They are short and easy to read. You can read as many or as few as you'd like or as time allows. It is Bless Yer Souls, It's the Truth! Our company is Eye Witness History. Contact me or go to Eye Witness History or you can even find it on Ebay. Through my years of experiences I have read hundreds of books about the History of our Church, even the official History of the Church (both the Documentary and Comprehensive) and many others. I feel I have given you a slice of history that everyone will love. I'm not boasting, people just like the book and you know - I LOVE Church History.

In the Mission Field, Loren C. Dunn (deceased member of the Presidency of the Quorum of Seventy) was attending a zone conference and one of the Elders made a blunder and called him a GA to his face. He replied, "What did you call me?" Then he made a joke about it, but he said that is not showing proper respect to the office. The press and the outside world will do that, sometimes. But, even newspapers would always start off their article with the title and position, i.e. President Thomas S. Monson, and then afterward refer to him as "Monson." I do think it's okay to leave off middle initials of the Brethren, like Elder Russell Nelson, in place of Russell M. Nelson. I don't know how you feel about that? I agree, that is a good point to make. It is all about RESPECTfor those that are called to lead us. The British have it right this time!

CJCampbell, you have it just right. It will be interesting to see whom President Thomas S. Monson will select as his councilors. Will he retain Henry Eyring? If not, President Eyring served in the First Presidency for a short time. It will also be interesting to hear the comments and speculation from Church members as to whom will be the next Prophet and President of the Church. There always is speculation. But those that aren't informed should know that it will always be the next in line. No question. In this case President Thomas S. Monson. It will interesting to see what focus, as CJCampbell pointed out, President Monson will take in his leadership. He is very, very different from President Hinckley. I have posted a brief explanation of the Succession of the Presidency on the site History of the Mormons and Current Mormon News.

Oh, another quick thing. I would say most members of the LDS church haven't read very many books on Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, or on Plural Marriage. I think that a big percentage haven't even read the Doctrine and Covenants. Therefore, when asked in Sunday School class about whether Joseph lived plural marriage or not, of course they're going to gloss over it. Don't let that shake your testimony. People don't KNOW, or don't want to know those kind of details. Did those people give you your testimony? No? Then they can't take it away from you. The Church isn't based on Joseph Smith. It's not his Church!

This is a very interesting Thread. Shell72, I am an old history teacher (high school and college). I have studied and read every biography of Joseph Smith I could find, out-of-print books, even the No Man Knows My History and other books. I was born into the church, but left it for a number of years - NOT because of Joseph's additional wives, or his statements. We could discuss Joseph Smith, Jr. for a very LONG time. One recommendation, as with all history, there are no OBJECTIVE books or statements, only subjective. Everyone has to speak from where they stand. Consider your sources, and then consider THEIR sources. I have read The 27th Wife (Brigham and Ann Eliza) and that is a perfect example, as other books I could site. Yes, Joseph wasn't facing enemies when speaking about his wife, BUT, he was facing those wanting to kill him!! Others suspected him of marrying other women and were angry (see Orson Pratt and leaving the church and then coming back). Joseph ordered, as Mayor, the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor newspaper, which was publishing gossip and lies about Joseph. The destruction of the Press was Joseph's "Treason." Get into the 19th century mindset to experience this history. As far as Plural Marriage...Brigham said he never desired the grave until he was commanded to live it. Joseph was commanded in the early days of the Church, but waited until his final days. YES, he did things that were wrong, but academically, in his life he demonstrated honor. Hey, I left the church, as I said before, but I came back, regardless of the history that I had studied so intensively for years. (BTW, the statement was made that "our courts" proved he had relations with other women. What is the reference for that?) Questioning history and religion is GREAT, it is only way we learn to dig beneath the surface. But, please remember those website's info and other books seeking to tear down and destory feed off each other. Consider the source and the motivation of each writer and article. Was Joseph Smith perfect? No, not by a long shot, and no mistake. I'm sure I could tell you things that happened that you didn't know, that still make me shake my head, but how do I feel about him, about Joseph Smith? I love him! I'm NO homeboy either. I have a short, hopefully interesting page on Joseph on my site that I think you'll enjoy. The importance of Joseph Smith THANKS for such interesting questions. I think we all benefit. RodAZ

Hi, Yes, I have posted on some of the other sites, but mainly like to read what has been written. Always makes my day better. I want to thank everyone who has helped with this site. All the Best to you! Keep up the GREAT WORK! RodAZ

Dear JRF, We welcome you here anytime. I know I posted to your last message and I hope it has helped - a little. For a person to be an athiest, or even an agnostic is very difficult to do. It take "faith" to see and deny others' faith and deny God in all world. I admire you to come from that type of settting and have such a great attitude. After being on this forum for only a short time, comparitively, I find comfort from these friends. Use us. It is fun and helpful to come here often. All the Best of Life to you. The Lord will bless you with amazing blessings...you'll see!

Wow! JRF, What a story! Welcome here and I have to say that I admire you for: * Forgiving your LDS boyfriend and your committment and dedication to him, Amazing! * Encouraging him to go to his bishop, even though it might mean losing him, * For writing about your very personal experience and asking for advice. You must be an incredible person!! I think the Bishop will concentrate on helping your friend to overcome his problem, regain his spirituality and fully repent of his problems. I do not think you are PART of his problem (I assume you must be irresistible and that is HIS problem, not yours). I believe you are part of the SOLUTION to this dilemma. You are strong and are helping him do what is right. Keep up the strength, and let the Lord be in your heart also, to assure you that whatever happens is the path you and he should trod. I would also encourage you to learn more about the Church, its doctrines and history, that will also help him and comfort you and bring you peace in a difficult situation. Our hearts go out to you. God will truly Bless you for your efforts and desires.

We usually have not been inconvenienced by missionaries or hometeachers just dropping by. My wife doesn't like the visiting teachers to just drop by unannounced. BUT, we had some really cool neighbors that we discussed the gospel topics with. We moved and have stayed in touch. We referred them to the missionaries and the Elders kept just dropping by. These ARE NOT the kind of people you just drop by on. They asked the missionaries to CALL FIRST, please. Would they ever do that ... NO! Now they have really cooled off to the idea of having the missionaries over. They should call and set up apppointments when asked to do so. Come on! I think it is only the Last-of-the-Month hometeachers that just drop by anyway.

HEY, Blackcat, I am registered with this one and like it. I have been contacted by some of my old missionary friends from this site. In fact, one of my investigators that we baptized contacted me through this site. It is very well done. There is a link to it on this site - Click here Mormon Links to get there. It is a great place to register then look for missionaries you have known. Missionaries from missions all over world register to contact other missionaries, or be contacted by missionaries or contacts from their Missions. Or go to LDSmissions.com I hope that helps.

Dear Brother, That was a fantastic reply. You have captured the entire issue, in my opinion, just using the text of the Book of Mormon. Outstanding. Too many of us get side-tracked by others' statements, judgments, and prejudices and we don't go to the source. Thanks for the time you took to address the issue of DNA and blood lines. :) I have gone back and reread your treatise and am more enlightened and impressed. Thanks, KCKern, I will recommend your site, and this excellent answer, to others. RodAZ

Drew, Whew! What an excellent JOB! That is one big, impressive, study that will lead to great discussions, especially among those whose research is meant to draw members and potential members away from the church. They want to show that Mormons are a unique people and nowhere in history has a group believed as Mormons believe. All of our Temples... The Nicaean Council is often quoted and relied upon within the dogma of Protestants. It is a shame too. Constantine (A.D. 325) and his ilk ("representing all of Christendom"?) took away much of the Sacred from the church, it was too embarrassing for them! Besides they were supposed to unite the world by Compromise. I am not familiar with Gnostic Paul, but I will look into it. Thanks for the reference. You did very, very good here, Drew! I appreciate it.

Oh, KC, I have another question for you. After all your studies of the exodus of the Jaredites and of Lehi and his extended family, what is your take on the hubbub about the native tribes of the American Continent not having any DNA from Israel or the Middle East? I have heard and read that quite a bit. I figured you would have put some thought into it. Thanks again.

Wow, KCKern, that is really a nice site. I'm glad you're getting the word out. You have really put a lot of thought and time into it. Thanks for sharing your story behind it. Many of us have had similar experiences with reading the Book of Mormon for the first time also. I didn't get through it until my third area in the mission field (Montana). You must have served the people of Korea well. That will be a good study for me and others. I will let my friends and family know about the site. How long did all the outlines and details take you to get on there? It is very detailed. I also have a website, but very different than yours. I wanted non-members and members alike to have a chance to take a few minutes to review the Life of Joseph Smith, for example and other various subjects in a few minutes and then do more research on their own. Now, you have covered the bases when it comes to the Book of Mormon. Thanks again for such a wonderful website and a great story behind it. Please let us know what you have put into it as far as time and efforts.

Hello, Home of Mew. You are more than welcome to be here. We, Mormons, are unique, we love to read posts and material concerning many different opinions. We are not stodgy or closed minded by any means. Actually, my daughter thought she would leave the LDS Church and now she and her family attend a Nondenominational church like you do. She says she loves it, but I know that SHE knows that there is more. Nothing wrong with that or the other churches you mentioned, but members of the Mormon Church look for so much MORE. Read some of the topics and posts here. Also, other GOOD sites with help you too, like www.mormons.org and www.lds.org. on Mormons.org there is a video too. Also, another site is www.historymormon.com, it will give you a quick and enjoyable overview of the doctrines and history. Again, welcome and we look forward to reading some more of your "Mews" Rod

Now we're at the end of the year and we dutifully go to Tithing Settlement. We know we also pay Fast Offerings. The figure we paid for the entire year is right there on the Statement. How much did you Pay in 2007? Is the "cost of two meals" the same for everyone? Is that still the standard? I know in the past people would pay $1.00 - $5.00 a month. Who can eat two meals on that? My wife and I were at some friend's home last Fast Sunday this month (December). They were not going to fast and so they said they didn't need to pay fast offerings. If we eat, then do we EAT UP OUR FAST OFFERINGS? Do we still need to pay? I have known people in the 1980s who paid $100 a month or more. They weren't wealthy and had a large family. We were discussing it and he told me, not to brag, but as a matter of duty. I was amazed. At the Beginning of 2008, I wonder if we should reconsider our Fast Offering donations. I believe it has gotten to be a part of the Church that there is a lot of indifference. Is $10 enough? How about $20? $50? How about if we went out to eat both of those imaginary meals? How much then? If we eat do we still pay? I would LOVE to hear what YOU have to say about this. Our friends were totally serious about not paying if they didn't fast a few weeks ago. Does anyone else feel that way? Rod PS It was in 1915 that the Church designated a Committee to make sure that Bishops presided PERSONALLY over their Priest's quorums (most weren't at that time). They also wanted to give Aaronic Priesthood men (some young at that time, some were adults) something important to do. It was then that the official announcement that Deacons collect Fast Offerings and the Priests were to "Supervise" the collection. But in the early church fast offerings were a part of the law of Consecration (you knew that, I'm sure!) but it became churchwide to "Assist the Poor." Okay, enough of history. I just love it.

The Colorado River

Hi Everyone, I have been reading your excellent posts for a while now...Truthfully, I was a little nervous to post among all your great thoughts. I have studied church history for a long time, as my bio on my site states. I have written and had published a church history book, and have put up a History of the Mormon Religion website. Even though I was born IN the Church, I have NOT always been in the Church. I was out for about 10 years (maybe more time than some have been IN the Church) and came back. I have studied Church History so much that I have read anti-books as well as solid Church History. I understand about Apologists. Some Church History books and materials are; Some aren't! Question: Can we, as Church Members ever really be objective about our intriguing and controversial history??? I have taught college and high school history courses, and have presented sections on the Mormons. I tried very hard not to be subjective, but I would explain to my classes that my background would mold my opinions. I hope my website and book are not Mormon Kool-Aid. I hope the readers of the Forum read and study Church History and love it as much as I. Thanks very much for all your thoughts and time to post to help others, like myself!! Rod

Thanks for your SERVICE, Proud2Serve. What an admirable and wonderful thing you're doing. I have never been in the service, but I have wondered if it is hard to keep your LDS standards while serving our country? I hope you're safe and doing well, and thanks again.