imported_Zeke

You are kidding – right?Do the math. Several thousand new ‘spirits’ join the world population every hour. Not a lot of time for foreplay do you think? You people are nuts.

I’m trying to understand the church position on the Garden Of Eden. I started by reviewing the official church web site that tells me was an actual, physical; place and that it did not include death. When I questioned this most posters on this board tell me that it’s a metaphor. How can it be both?Since the answer to this question involves my personal salivation FOR ETERNITY (which is indeed a long time) I think it deserves a hard look don’t you?

HiJolly – Could it be that we are discussing two different meanings of the word spiritual? Many people say they have a spiritual experience when they see a sunset or hear Beethoven’s ninth (I am one of those people). Others say they are aware of a spiritual world – a place where spirits dwell – not of this earth.When I said that the garden was an actual place I intended to say it was not in the spiritual world. It was of this earth. That is what the church is saying.

Good - I agree with you. What are your reason(s) then?

I understand what you are saying but the official church web site makes it plain that the garden was an actual place. Not a spiritual place but a real, in-this-world place.http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1 The church web site talks about real world things such as 'created a beautiful place on the earth', 'body of flesh and bones', 'able to walk and talk'. These are not spiritual things being described, they are physical. I can understand how it must be difficult to except the literal meaning of these words but it seems you must.

Then you are saying that the garden is not a literal truth? That there was never a physical garden?

But then you have to square the fact that human genes are directly related to other species that were outside the garden. As one of the church leaders said: "If death has always prevailed in the world, there was no fall of Adam which brought death to all forms of life. If Adam did not fall, there is no need for an atonement. If there was no atonement, there is no salvation, no resurrection, no eternal life, nothing in all of the glorious promises that the Lord has given us. If there is no salvation, there is no God. The fall affects man, all forms of life, and the earth itself”. - Bruce R. McConkie Really makes it hard to follow the logic of the garden.

Do you think that lust is adultery? If so then *every* human that has ever lived is an adulterer. Its part of what it is to be human.

How do you mean that (…technically have “spirits”). Is there any reason to think that either souls or spirits are real things?

Do you consider yourself perfect?

Yes but eating a peach does kill the individual cells of the peach…

Are you saying that life and death proceeded outside of the garden but did not occur inside? If so that would allow for natural evolution to take place everywhere but in the garden.BTW – Did you take your moniker from that famous Quartzsite camel driver?

This is very confusing to me. If the plants and animals did not die in the garden then there could have been no eating going on. Eating a plant surly kills it. There also could have been no such thing as microbes or germs since they live at the expense of a host. And if this were so Adam and Eve could not be considered human because a human’s life depends on a host of microbes and germs to survive. It seems to me that the ‘fall’ was really a blessing and that a second coming and a return to these conditions would be a disaster. Or is this is simply a tale told to children to comfort them?

Was there no death at all before the fall or only no death for Adam and Eve? I guess I'm asking if the plants and animals in the garden died?

What is the churches teaching on the Garden of Eden? What was its purpose?