SilkRose

Baptism of Jesus Christ was done as an example to show us how to Follow HIM>

6) And finally...what does "Saved" mean? I hear Christians say that all the time...even mass murderers on death row...does that me their sins are forgiven and they get to go to heaven with say an honest hardworking man who gave all he could to his fellow man?...do they reap the same reword?....cause if that's the case then I will go out and sin as much as I can (cause less face it, it's fun) and near the end of my life somewhere I'll get "Saved"! ANSWER 6: Faith without works is dead. James 2:14-26. However "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9). The two seem to contradict each other. ergon is the original Greek for the English word "works." It does not appear to be a very difficult, ambiguous, or confusing term. But what do the many people and churches who claim that works are not required perceive "works" to be? Opinions vary. One group perceives works to mean the whole law in general. A second group perceives works as specific portions of God's law, which they look upon as being "Jewish" or "Old Covenant," or that they are just not willing to keep and teach. A third group, amazingly enough in their rejection of it, perceives this term as meaning works of charity in general! Individuals or groups who choose to substitute the word "law" for the word "works" in Ephesians 2:8-9, and who thus say that New Testament Christians do not have to keep God's law, do not appear to mean it totally and literally. Instead, most of them reserve the right to choose which parts of the law they wish to keep ("You shall not kill," "You shall not steal," etc.) and those that they do not wish to keep ("Remember the Sabbath," holy days, tithing, clean and unclean meats, etc.). God has nowhere given authority to His people to be selective in these matters, thus this stance toward the law is inconsistent and even hypocritical. Conditions for Salvation The church of God has always agreed one hundred percent with those who say that salvation is a gift, and that a Christian cannot earn salvation by charitable works or by obedience to God's law. However, obedience is a condition we must meet before God will give us His free gift of salvation. New Testament evidence is overwhelming on the matter. Here are just a few verses: • And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit, which God has given to those who obey him. (Acts 5:32) • He who says, "I know him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (I John 2:4) • So He said to [the rich young ruler], "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17) • If you love Me, keep My commandments. (John 14:15) The apostle Paul, in Ephesians 2:8-9, does not say that works are not required at all. The purpose of his statement is to show that works do not save us, but that grace and faith do! In fact, the very next verse, verse 10, shows that God calls members of His church for the very purpose of performing good works: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10). The apostle's language is very clear. God desires us to walk in good works, and He has prepared our spiritual educational process so that we will learn to do them. Doing good works in the name of Jesus Christ is a major part of the purpose for the life of each true Christian. We cannot truly be Christians without them! No Contradiction Finally, is there any contradiction between the opinions of Paul and James on this matter? Simply, no! Paul, in Ephesians 2:8 says that faith is required and, as we have seen, in verse 10, says that good works are also required. James, in the second chapter of his epistle, says that faith and works are inseparable: • Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (verse 17) • But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? (verse 20) • For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (verse 26) The Romans Road to salvation is a way of explaining the good news of salvation using verses from the Book of Romans. It is a simple yet powerful method of explaining why we need salvation, how God provided salvation, how we can receive salvation, and what are the results of salvation. The first verse on the Romans Road to salvation is Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." We have all sinned. We have all done things that are displeasing to God. There is no one who is innocent. Romans 3:10-18 gives a detailed picture of what sin looks like in our lives. The second Scripture on the Romans Road to salvation, Romans 6:23, teaches us about the consequences of sin - "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." The punishment that we have earned for our sins is death. Not just physical death, but eternal death! The third verse on the Romans road to salvation picks up where Romans 6:23 left off, "but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:8 declares, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Jesus Christ died for us! Jesus' death paid for the price of our sins. Jesus' resurrection proves that God accepted Jesus' death as the payment for our sins. The fourth stop on the Romans road to salvation is Romans 10:9, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, all we have to do is believe in Him, trusting His death as the payment for our sins - and we will be saved! Romans 10:13 says it again, "for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Jesus died to pay the penalty for our sins and rescue us from eternal death. Salvation, the forgiveness of sins, is available to anyone who will trust in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The final aspect of the Romans road to salvation is the results of salvation. Romans 5:1 has this wonderful message, "Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Through Jesus Christ we can have a relationship of peace with God. Romans 8:1 teaches us, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Because of Jesus' death on our behalf, we will never be condemned for our sins. Finally, we have this precious promise of God from Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Sorry this is so long. I hope this helps to answer your questions. I have these same discussions with my husband all the time. He is LDS. You can email me at [email protected] if you have any further questions. I LOVE to debate.

5) If a person never hears the word of God...(I'm taking those who have been sheltered away from the Bible or denied the Bible such as in China), or never knows of or is taught of Christ....what happens to that person when he dies? Does he go to hell? Don't the Christian believe you have to be Baptised or you go to hell? ANSWER 5: If a person never hears of Jesus Christ or the word of God, or little children under the age of understanding, then they will go to Heaven not hell. Hell is for those that knew God and chose to turn away from him. Luke 12:47-48 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. I beleive that this is indicitive that God does not punish those that have not hear of Him. His punishments are a gradation of our works. John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. This reflects that those who hear HIS word and Beleive on Him will have everlasting life. The emphasis on those that hear, tells me that God is leaving out those that do not hear from punishment.

3) Which one of the Christian churches should I go to to learn about Christ and His Gospel...there are so many? I have looked into some and they all teach something that I think is right but then they all have alot of differences...which one is the right Christian church...the one Jesus himself set up? ANSWER 3: Jesus built only one church, and at that time all saved people were in that one church (Matt. 16:18; Acts 2:47).But today there are actually hundreds of different denominations, differing from one another in name, authority, worship, organization, plan of salvation and forgiveness of sins, etc. Yet all claim to be Christian, to follow Jesus, and to be pleasing to God. MATTHEW 7:15-21 will identify how a church belongs to Jesus.The true church can be identified because it teaches and practices the will of God. By learning Jesus' will for His church, we can know the identifying marks of His church. [Cf. 1 John 2:3-6]You cannot be voted into the Lord's church, you cannot purchase membership in it, and you cannot "join" it. You simply obey the gospel and let God add you (Acts 2:47).) What's the difference between a Christian and a Baptist? Or a Lutheran? Or Pentacostal? Presbyterian? Methodist? Calvinist? Evangelical? ANSWER 4: The best way to find this out, is to obtain a statement of Faith from each church. It will make the post too long if I list each one. Contact the local churches. They each keep one handy.

ANSWER 2: 1. Apostles and prophets are the two foundational ministries in the body of Christ. I have great respect for dedicated evangelists, pastors and teachers. I am personally ordained as a pastor and teacher. But the bible singles out apostles and prophets as the two ministries which, anchored to Jesus the Chief Cornerstone, undergird the Lord’s Church. All Christians are entitled to be built on this apostolic and prophetic foundation. And we will see later in this study that these are not just restricted to the early church’s apostles and the Old Testament prophets. They include contemporary, modern day prophets and apostles as well. 1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Ephesians 4:7-8, 11 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men” ... [11] It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers. 2. Who gives these ministries to the Church? These verses above declare that it is God the Father and Jesus the Son of God who give these ministries to the church. Jesus Himself is the premier expression of each of these offices. • “Jesus, the apostle...whom we confess” (Hebrews 3:1) • “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth” (Matthew 21:11). • Jesus was certainly the Great Soulwinner, the consummate evangelist. • Jesus is “the Shepherd [Greek word for “pastor”] and Overseer of your souls” (1 Peter 2:25). • “Rabbi, we know you [Jesus] are a teacher who has come from God” (John 3:2). It seems that Jesus — the chief apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher — is giving an expression of Himself to the Church in the form of these ministry gifts. For example, in Paul, Peter, and the other apostles we see a partial reflection of the perfect apostleship of Christ. In Agabus (Acts 11:27f; 21:10f) and other Christian prophets we see a partial expression of the perfect prophetic ministry of Jesus. The same could be said for God-given evangelists, pastors and teachers. 3. Apostles and Christian prophets are in the Church for the entire church age. A number of Scriptures (see below) make it very clear that apostles and prophets were intended for the full church age, and not just for the first century church. Ephesians 3:4-5 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. Paul declares that the mystery has “now been revealed...to God’s holy apostles and prophets.” These were “now” — that is, contemporary — apostles and prophets in the Church several decades after Christ’s resurrection and ascension to heaven. Some have erroneously identified the “prophets” in this verse as Old Testament prophets. But this very Scripture says quite the opposite. It states that the prophets receiving this “now” revelation were “NOT...men in other generations.” No, these were Christian prophets, contemporary to the time in which Paul was writing. These were apostles and prophets existing in the New Testament church. Ephesians 4:8, 11-13 This is why it says: “When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men” ... [11] It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Here the apostle Paul gives us additional proofs that apostles and prophets were to continue during the Church Age. • “When He ascended on high...He gave...some to be apostles, some to be prophets...” These were not the original Twelve apostles. This refers to apostles and prophets that Jesus continued to give after His ascension to heaven! For that reason some have called the “fivefold” ministries of Ephesians 4:11 the “ascension gift ministries.” Having ascended to heaven, Jesus continues to give all five, not just evangelists, pastors and teachers. • And this giving of five ministries by Christ was not just to get the early church started. Rather, the giving of all five is needed “until we all...become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.” That is an ongoing process occupying the entire time between Jesus’ First Coming and His Second Coming. Revelation 11:10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. These “two prophets” are the Lord’s “two witnesses” (Rev. 11:3) at the very end of the Church Age during the time of the Antichrist. Again we see Christian prophets long after the time of the early church, in fact at the very end of this age. Revelation 18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you. As end-time “Babylon” is judged, there is a call to contemporary, modern day, end time “saints and apostles and prophets” to rejoice over this divine judgment. Once again, contemporary apostles and Christian prophets are seen, not only at the beginning of the church age, but (here) at the end. 4. Is the New Testament Church today properly structured? The answer to that question can be found in a very simple test. May I add that most Christians will fail this test! • Question #1 — Which three of the Ephesians 4:11 ministries are mentioned most in the New Testament? • Question #2 — Which two of those fivefold ministries are mentioned least in the New Testament? The answers may shock you. They indicate how far out of balance the contemporary church has grown compared to the original church that Christ established on the earth. • Answer to question #1: • The word “apostle(s)” occurs 85 times in the New Testament. • The word “prophet(s)” occurs over 150 times in the New Testament, about 20 of those occurrences referring distinctly to prophets in the Church Age. • The word “teacher(s)” occurs 125 times in the New Testament. • Answer to question #2: • The word “evangelist(s)” occurs only 3 times in the New Testament. • The word “pastor(s)” occurs precisely one (1) time in the entire New Testament! One time! Consider those numbers. The Bible speaks of New Testament apostles, prophets, or teachers a combined total of approximately 200 times. Pastors and evangelists are mentioned a combined total of four times! And yet the modern day church calls most ministers by the term “Pastor” and shies away from “apostles” and “prophets” like a horse avoiding a rattlesnake! Man’s prejudices, fears, or misinterpretations have deprived the Lord’s Church of the two foundational ministries that He Himself placed on earth. The Church today, wherever it denies these two ministries, is improperly structured. Pastors, evangelists, and teachers alone cannot bring the church to maturity. They were never intended to. Jesus gave all five ministries for that purpose. Matthew 10:41a, KJV He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. Why beat around the bush? Jesus tells us to receive someone who is a prophet “in the name of a prophet.” There is no biblical support for identifying certain ones as “evangelists, pastors and teachers” and then identifying true apostles and prophets with man-made phrases like: “He has an apostolic [or prophetic] mantle.” As if the Lord has given three nouns (evangelist, pastor, teacher) and two adjectives (apostolic, prophetic)! No! Jesus said to receive a prophet “in the name of a prophet.” It’s time for the Church to shake off the fear of man and return to biblical patterns.

1) How come Christians don't have any Temples? Christ worshipped in a Temple, He went there to teach often and he even refers to the Temple as a house of God....And you can read about Temples all through the Bible....so, why don't Christians have Temples? ANSWER 1: Temples were an important part of Judaism, and the New Testament mentions Christians being in temples, but an examination of the biblical role of the temple reveals some surprising facts when compared with the role of the LDS temple. In Mormonism, temples are not large meeting houses where Sunday services are held. In fact, most Mormons are not even allowed to enter the temple. Only “worthy” Mormons who have satisfactorily passed through a series of interviews have access to these buildings and the ceremonies performed therein. In the Old Testament, God commanded Solomon to build a temple. When He did this, there were very specific details that God gave about what the purpose of the temple was, who could enter the various parts of the temple, what they were to wear, on what days they could enter, what was to take place in the temple, etc. The major activity of the temple was to offer various animal sacrifices to God for sins. Some of these offerings were from the fruit of their land, but great detail is given in Leviticus chapters one through nine about how different animals would be offered for different types of sins. When a Jew knew they had committed the sin of swearing, for instance, they would bring a lamb for the priest to sacrifice on their behalf to have the guilt of that sin covered (Leviticus 5:4-6). The whole reason they went to the temple was to obtain forgiveness of sins, not to prove their worthiness. They went because they knew there was a rift in their relationship with God and they needed to make the required sacrifice. In LDS theology, temples serve an entirely different purpose. When an LDS temple is built, there is always a period of time before the temple is dedicated that it is open to the public for tours. The Mormon Church claims on their tour that their temple is a restoration of how Jews in the Old Testament built temples. They portray their temple as if it has many similarities to temples in the Old Testament. These claims are easily proven false. 1. The major purpose of the Old Testament temple was to offer animal sacrifices, but no LDS temple does this. 2. In Jewish theology, those who were going to the tem ple were going because they had sin that needed to be dealt with before God. In LDS theology, one must be deemed “worthy” to enter the temple. This term means that the LDS member has demonstrated in their life that they have met certain qualifications to be allowed access into the temple. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie defined it this way, “Worthiness is determined solely on the basis of personal righteousness.” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 851) 3. In Jewish theology, there was only one high priest who could actually meet with God and this was only on one day a year. In LDS theology, both men and women are allowed in the temple and the office of “high priest” is bestowed upon thousands of LDS men all over the world. This system of priesthood in no way resembles the priesthood of the Old Testament. 4. One of the major activities in LDS temples is proxy baptisms for the dead. Not only does the Bible strictly forbid any interaction with the dead (Deuteronomy 18:11-12), but there is never any mention of doing any kind of baptism in the temples of the Old Testament. 5. Another major activity in LDS temples are marriages, which again, are glaringly absent in the Biblical record. The new testament specifically “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). In the New Testament, there was a considerable change in the significance of the temple. The Temple is not mentioned as a place where people needed to attend as part of their worship. Paul and the other apostles did go to the temple, but it was to try and win converts from Judaism to Christianity. In fact, one of the most exciting events that happened regarding the temple was as a result of the death of Christ. Mathew 27:50-51: “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom, and the earth shook; and the rocks were split,” This ended the need for the TEMPLE or the veil. Jesus is now our veil in which to pass to see God. 2) If Christians believe the Bible to be the word of God, literally...then where are your Prophets...God always had prophets to lead and guide his people....why don't Christians have a Prophet?

Okay, here is an analogy that I used, and my LDS bishop father in law seemd to agree with it. An Egg has three parts: External Shell, Egg White, and Egg Yolk. God the Father is the Egg Yolk. He is the center. He is the Life of the egg. He is the main part. Jesus the Son is the Egg White. He represents that through Him, we can reach the Father (yolk). The Holy Spirit is the External Shell. The shell is the hardest part of the egg, and it protects the white and the yolk. It is the part of the egg that is exposed to the outside world. It protects the egg. The Holy Spirit can deal with our sin. He protects us by giving us guidance. He can look at sin, where God the Father cannot. Try that on for size. LDS beleive that As Man is God once was, As God is Man might become. In other words. God (Heavenly Father), once walked in a life full of trial and tribulation and tests and followed the path of righteousness (baptized, endowed, sealed) in order to acheive the celestial kingdom and eternal families. If this is acheived, He was then rewarded with a world of His own to start the whole process over again (present world we are in). We are His Sprit Children sent to Earth and earthly bodies in order to walk in a life full of trial and tribulation and tests and if we follow the plan of salvation and righeouseness (baptized, endowed, sealed) and acheive the celestial kingdom, we will inherit the same. Note the emphasis on become like God and the use of the little g in gods.

They protest, which is their right to freedom of speech. But, I live in an area, where I have seen missionaries stand outside of a catholic church that is frequented by tourists, same as temple square, and try to force pamphlets on parishoners. I have also witnessed a missionary spit in the "holy water" inside a catholic church and to which his companion told him it was time to leave and that was disrespectful. His response was: so what, they are the whore of babylon. I realize these are small individual situations, but it goes both ways. Just as you are not responsible for their actions and all LDS are not lumped in with their childish behavior, neither should all protestant/catholic/evangelical people be lumped with these few. LIVE AND LET LIVE

I grew up baptist also. What he is referring to is salvation through Jesus Christ dying on the Cross for our sins. Mike, when you go for your baptism interview, they will ask you if you beleive that Jesus Christ died for your sins, esentially, asking, are you saved. LDS tend not to use this term. It threw me off at first also, but then I realized they beleive the same thing, just don't word it the same. Baptism does not wash away your sins MormonGirl, Jesus dying on the cross washed them away. JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever beleiveth in Him shall not perrish but have eternal life. Baptism is an outward representation of an internal feeling. It represents to others that you have made the commitment to follow Christ.

Aqua, I grew up Southern Baptist and married a Mormon. We discussed exactly how we would raise our children. We discussed finances, roles for each of us, views on discipline, and life in general. It does not sound like you value your fiance's self worth or ability to think and feel for herself. Nor do you respect her decision to choose apart from your church. You don't sound as if you are emotionally or mentally mature enough to marry if you cannot get past the fact of converting her or showing her the "evils' of her way. As for the rock and roll and casual dress, you may want to view the book of Psalms for the use of musical instruments in church. It may give you a different perspective. My husband was unconfortable in my church, and I was uncomfortable in his. So, We go to the LDS church in the morning, and the Baptist at night. I found one that was more similar to the LDS in strict dress and only piano/organ type atmosphere. We value each others individual choices and free agency. I learn about his religion as he does about mine. Converting someone simply for the numbers is ridiculous. You need to teach her about your beleifs, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. That is what he is there for. You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink. You instead, should be focusing on your compatability with your fiance. Make sure you feel the same on basic religious beleifs. COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT BAPTISTS vs. MORMONS 1.) We beleive in the pre-existence just as you do. 2.) We baptize in the name of the father, son and holy spirit with full immersion just as you do. 4.) We beleive in God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. 5.) We beleive that in order for salvation you must first have faith, be baptized, and follow God's law, just as you do. We just don't do the whole Temple thing, because in our beleif system, the veil was rent when Jesus died on the cross for our sins. 6.) Women cannot hold positions of authority in the church. There are too many to list. You need to do more research.