kevieb

joined this board awhile back--and forgot. found it and decided i could use some advice again in my life. things are difficult, and I want to hold on to my testimony--hoping to learn lots of good things from faithful members who want to live the gospel the best they know how!

VORT--thank you also for the suggestion about contacting the area seventy. I was told that there WAS help if I could not get it locally--but it was awfully hard to get the information on who to contact--I asked my Bishop a couple of times--but he said he didn't know. I finally picked one of the many phone numbers on the internet under Church Headquarters and just called and asked what I was supposed to do when I could not get help locally. A lady gave me the name and the address of the person in the Presidency of the Quorum of the seventy that I was to write to. I have written several letters--and torn every one up. We live in a fairly small town in southern Idaho. I grew up when there was only one stake. After I married, there were two stakes---and we lived for 18 years in the "other" stake. Just over 5 years ago, we moved to this stake, which was the "richer side of town" when there was only one stake. The "other" stake was much warmer and seemed more concerned---the stake president in that stake, now, used to be our bishop. He was offering to help me when i couldn't get help from my own leaders--he knew my husband and my husband is very comfortable with him. I kind of feel like this stake has a good old boys club who has always done things a certain way--and see no reason to change. They are good, religious men---but I don't feel the warmth and concern from them that I felt before---I'm even living in the ward I grew up in, believe it or not!!! It just doesn't seem that there should be such a difference between two stakes in such a small town.

I am very aware that our leaders are not trained counselors---and i know that my husband needs to be the one to make the choice to change himself. BUT, I have read article after article written by church authorities that tell me I have the right to ask for help----I can't understand why it took 5 years before i could get anyone to take me seriously that i needed help. This is a quote from the First Presidency: "Members of the Church continue to place telephone calls and write letters to Church headquarters about doctrinal issues and personal matters. By reason of their callings, local leaders are entitled to the spirit of discernment and inspiration to enable them to counsel members within their jurisdiction. Accordingly, correspondence from members will be referred back to their local leaders for handling. Stake presidents who have need for further clarification about doctrinal or procedural issues may write to the First Presidency in behalf of their members. It is our desire that all members will feel they have the support and guidance they need: however, all things should be done in wisdom and order. We believe that both members and local leaders will be blessed as they pray and counsel together in an effort to resolve matters of concern to them." This was signed by the First Presidency. Since I believe that the church is true--I believed that this letter from the first presidency said that My leaders are entitled to the spirit of discernment and inspiration to enable them to know how to counsel my husband and I-----even if that includes counseling my husband that he needs to deal with the issues that he has acknowledged he has--depression, anxiety, and anger issues. We have always been full tithe payers, a former stake president told me that it meant I had the right to ask the church for help---since our insurance does not cover marriage counseling, I feel like we should be entitled to ask for help with regular counseling----with a counselor that has a good reputation for working with people---not just the ones the church sends who more often than not have not been good counselors. our stake president is aware that we have not been provided good counselors-----I'm guessing that could be part of the reason that my husband doesn't want to go. But, I also believe that if the stake president told my husband he wanted him to give counseling a try one more time, and he called the First Presidency for help with procedural issues on finding a good counselor---plus used the inspiration he is entitled to----I honestly think my husband might be willing to try counseling one more time. There is an article in an old Ensign called "The Invisible Heartbreaker" It talks about the various forms of abuse in marriage, it also talks about how some women who are emotionally and verbally abused sometimes will eventually retreat into illness or depression---sometimes they will start to fight back. Either the same article, or another one---wish I could remember for sure, said that sometimes, if verbal abuse is not gotten under control, it will eventually lead to physical abuse. This is what eventually happened to us during the time I could not get anyone to help me---fortunately, the physical part was mild and short lived and he was so scared that he could get arrested, that it has not been an issue again. He has mostly stopped swearing at me and hasn't thrown anything in a long time. I sometimes wonder if part of my health issues and my ongoing depression have somewhat to do with my husbands ongoing verbal abuse----and the fact that I am in a very lonely marriage. I have been diagnosed with several issues that I am working on---part of what my husband seems to resent about me is that I am not well---and we have had so many medical problems in our entire family---he hates to hear me talk about it---and I DO need to try and talk about it less. I just don't have anything else going on in my life---I've suggested to him that maybe if we went out and did some different things, maybe I would have something else to talk about. I think he also forgets that alot of the medical problems have been his. I have seen my husband make efforts to change--he just seems to have trouble maintaining it---that is where I feel the regular visits with a church leader that he trusts could really help us----since he KNOWS how to treat me good, because he HAS treated me good at times, I think that the regular visits would help him to be accountable for himself. I have seen him come back from a visit with the stake pres before and want to talk about a way to improve something in our relationship. VORT---thank you for your comment about being glad that I did not leave my husband as someone had suggested. I still believe in him, and I know what he is capable of---i just don't know why he chooses not to do it. I kind of figure if I want to say he is a jerk, that is my business---but I don't want anyone else to say he is a jerk and that I should leave him. I have just been so disappointed that it took so long to get anyone to pay attention---and my son may have been out of line to tell the stake pres that he wasn't doing his job---but that is what it took to get him to finally follow through and start visiting with us once a month. The stake Pres had visited with us a couple of times last year---but that was only after my mother called him, my daughter and son-in-law called, my high school daughter sent him a text and my oldest, inactive son called him and said 'how soon can you see me?"---My son showed up at his office at 10 pm. After my family bombarded him and told him how much I needed help, he visited with us a few times---and then seemed to forget about us. I had tried to make an appt. with him---but I could never get the executive secretary to return my call---I don't know why I didn't matter enough to get a reply---but I'm greatful that my children were able to get through to him. I have known my stake president since I was 9 years old and we were in the same ward--he went to school with my older sisters---it's not like I was a newly transplanted member that he had never heard of---but it shouldn't matter either way. Sorry this was so long--I need to learn to condense my thoughts.

In looking for help for abuse, i found this website--and discovered I had joined it several years ago!!! I have been looking for help for some time and have been surprised at how difficult it is to get church leaders to take me seriously when I tell them that I need help. I'm not sure if this is the right board for me to be on, I couldn't find any specific forums dealing with abuse in the church. I desperately do not want to lose my testimony---i married foolishly at barely 19--out of the church--and was eventually given the choise to either quit going to church --or leave. I took my little boy and a basket of clothes and left--not knowing I was pregnant. I married again 3 years later to a man who had also been married to a non-member. He had been inactive for over 13 years, but wanted to get active, he also had custody of his children---i knew both these things before I met him. He told me all the things he did wrong in his marriage--and he also told me the things he thought it took to make a good marriage. He told me he would not marry me until he could take me to the temple. Just under 5 months after we met---we were sealed in the Salt Lake Temple. He treated me like a queen the whole time we were dating and for about the first 6 months of our marriage---and then he decided it was just too hard to keep up that much commitment. My children were adopted by him--and both his children and my children were sealed to us about 1 1/2 years after we were married. We have had 7 more children together. This December we celebrated our 25th anniversary with him having surgery!! He has been a yeller from about 6 months into our marriage. He is a little rough around the edges. I don't like being yelled at, but when i am not depressed and feeling well, I can deal with his "roughness around the edges" --but I still don't like being yelled at. When I am at my best, i can let things roll off my back and get over them pretty easy-----but I have been depressed off and on for so many years of our marriage. I know I have less depression when he is treating me better---I think I also deal with my health problems better when he treats me better---the problem is that he is so tired of me being depressed and having health problems---that he treats me lousy because of it----it has become a pretty vicious cycle. I know what he is capable of because I have seen him at his best. I just don't understand why the church speaks out so strongly about spousal abuse of all kinds---and yet my local leaders took forever to isten to me---it took several of my children and my mother calling the stake president to get any help, the stake pres had no idea there were any problems--- the bishop had never even talked to the stake president about our issues---but he was going to pull my husbands temple recommend----seems like he would have reached out for some help from a higher leader before wanting to pull my husband's recommend. Our bishop is a kind man---but I think he does not have the experience or knowledge to deal with the problems my husband has been having. Right now, my husband is semi-active and dealing with depression and anxiety, which he will not get help for. He is very negative about counseling--he said it always felt like I was tattling on him. However, he was willing to go to a counselor with our newest bishop---but we were only allowed 3 visits with the counselor, then sent home with a book and told to read it together---like that was going to happen!!---there was no follow up. The stake president told me that it was handled poorly--he also told me that we have not had good counselors provided to us locally by the church---I was already aware of that from experience. The stake pres visited with hubby and I each twice--then about twice more with my hubby over a number of months time---then just quit. I sent him an email once trying to touch base--but he never replied. I never could get the executive secretary to return my calls to make an appt. with the stake pres. Finally, one of my sons went to the stake pres's place of business and told him he wasn't doing his job---I have a feeling he probably yelled at him---I think he was tired of seeing me cry listening to me be so unhappy--and complain about not being able to get any help. The stake pres called us in again and said he would meet with us every fast sunday--so far he has followed through---but I feel like we are making very little progress. He said an interesting thing to me when I said I wanted help. He asked me what I wanted him to do because he was "just a carpenter"----I replied that "so was Christ." Another time he asked me, "who do you want help from, your farmer bishop or your carpenter stake president?" I had early told him that he was entitled to inspiration to know how to help us---I read that from one of the General Authorities--I also read that I had a right to ask for help---but I kept feeling like maybe I was doing something wrong. Kind of long, I know, but I am feeling so desperate to have peace in my marriage and my life again---I would like to have my husband just talk to me without shutting me off or yelling at me. I want to hang on to my testimony and believe that the things the church leaders have said about the church giving help for abuse are true.---Sometimes I think that I am in a really weird stake that is kind of a good old boys club---I lived in the other stake in this town for 18 years, we have been in this stake for 5 years---I felt like I had changed religions when we changed stakes----and I moved into the house I grew up in as a teenager and I am back in the ward I grew up in. I always thought the church was something you could count on to be the same where ever you went---i kinow the basic gospel is--but sometimes there are things that are so troubling to a person, that they overwhelm you to the point that the gospel gets buried under everything else going on. can anyone help me in any way?

I really could use some loving counsel--and some words of strength to keep me from losing my testimony. i have been a member all my life--was inactive for a few years, married out of the church, but returned to church when my ex said I had to leave or quit going to church. i left with a small child and not knowing that i was already pregnant. i remarrried 3 years later, to a man who had gown up in the church, but had also married out of the church. He had been inactive for much longer than I had--but I was told he wanted to get active before I ever met him--so I didn't feel like he was getting active just for me. We were married in the temple 24 1/2 years ago. After 11 years of marriage he told me he still believed in the church, but he didn't want to read scriptures or say prayers or do a number of things that LDS families "just do". He did not quit attending church---but he has never been a strong priesthood leader. He has been in the Elder's quorum presidency and has been the executive secretary, taught primary, worked in the nursery, worked in scouts. However, we were never very good at FHE lessons, we did various things and would call them FHE. He would get mad if i asked him to have family prayer in the morning unless everyone was right there and ready---=he had a very timed schedule in the morning that he insisted on folowing--he just didn't include family prayer in that schedule. We did not get to the temple often--long drive and alot of nursing babies---we have 11 children between the 2 of us. We have always attended church regularly and we would get to the temple occasionally. We have always been full tithe payers. My husband has yelled at me alot over the years, but never used obscenities. We've tried counseling a few times--but our local LDS social services has lousy counselors---one "marriage counselor" we saw told us he specialized in working with children!! My husband eventually refused to go to any more counselors. My own counselor suggested that maybe the bishop could visit with him about once a month---more or less to check up on how things were going and it would make my husband have to be accountable for his behavior. My husband was agreeable to this idea!!! My hubby was starting to get more angry with me and starting to use obscenities---something he had never done at home. We moved shortly after our bishop had started working with him. We moved to a different stake--and I felt like I had changed religions. I talked to my new bishop about visiting with my husband on a fairly regular basis--he told me he could do that---but he didn't follow through. We eventually got a new bishop, who also told me he could visit with my husband on a fairly regular basis---my husband was really comfortable talking to him---but he was tranferred 9 months later. In the meantime, since I could not get anyone to visit with my husband---his bad behavior towards me was escalating I am shocked at all the obscenities I was called, the times I was flipped off, how often he would throw things across the room---near me, but not directly at me--intimidation tactics, I guess. he finally crossed the line one night and threw something directly in my face as hard as he could, i immediately grabbed the phone--he told me if i called the police he would leave me--then he thought I was blocking his way out---i was standing in a narrow part of the room, so he through a glass of water and ice at me and totally drenched me (he didn't throw the glass) then he left because he was afraid the police would come and he would be arrested. My inactive son called our stake president and showed up at his office at 10pm to talk to him--my 17 year old daughter texted the stake president, and my mother also called the stake president. Apparently, my bishop had never said a word to the stake pres about what was going on. My husband was not exactly willing to talk to our bishop. The stake president told me that he does not usually work with couples--so he only spoke to me twice. he has visited with my husband---but it is too far between visits--and my husband can't maintain the better attitude he comes home with after visiting with the stake president. LDS services here is worthless--even the stake pres says we have had bad counselors. My bishop has been meeting with me regularly--but the stake president has never talked to me again. So, when there is a problem, i have to talk to my bishop, who then relays it to the stake president, who calls on Sunday morning to ask my husband to come see him that day---this could be quite some time after there has been a problem---and since he is not talking to me,he is only hearing my husband's version---and whatever the bishop remembers about what i have told him. My husband is now semi-active---and I don't feel like my stake president even cares about me. There is no way he can help us if he is only willing to talk to my husband. i know my husband is capable of being a wonderful and kind person--because I have seen him be that way. He will always be a little rough around the edges--and I can live with that , too. But i can't live with being yelled at so often and called names. he doesn't have really good or close relationships with any of our children, although he does have his moments when he does OK. he always says he got burned out of babies---but our "baby" is going on 9 years old. I appreciate the effort my bishop is making in trying to visit with me on a regular basis--but it isn't going to help with our marriage because two different people are talking to each of us---and yes, I understand that they are not trained counselors---but my husband has a much better attitude when he visits with the stake president---but the take president will go long stretches of time without talking to him. i don't know how that is going to help us---especially if he is never talking to me. Is there anywhere else I can go for help? I feel like we are totally cut off from the brethren of the church in salt lake---we are supposed to deal with our local leaders---but this is beyond what our local leaders can deal with. I was told that there is more help and that I can go to the next person in the line of authority above the stake president--but I don't know who it is or how to get ahold of them. I feel like my testimony is really being shaken up--and i know I have so much anger and resentment built up that it is probably impossible for the spirit to reach me. i don't want to go in this direction---someone please help me!!!

my parents were divorced (after a temple marriage) and my mother was later sealed to my step-father (after a temple divorce) i was a teenager when she and my step-father went to the temple, and was very upset by the thought that i might have to choose who i would be with. if we live righteously, i believe that all things will work out. some of these things are" infinit" principles that are impossible for us to understand at this time because we have "finite" minds.