kevieb

Marginoferror----I am so impressed with your understanding that I had to say it in words--posting a "thanks" wasn't enough. I especially appreciated your comment about not being able to think rationally when you are a victim of abuse, and how someone might feel if they had lost what they thought was their only source of rescue. This was the same frustration I was feeling when i first came on this board---I know I am not always rational, not just because of my circumstances, but because I also have a chronic illness and I take a lot of medication. When the Prophets and Apostles speak out so much against abuse, and tell us that there is help in the church---and then you can't get that help you were told is there from your local leaaders---it is pretty easy to become a little (a lot) disillusioned with things. And then people just want to say you are talking negative about your leaders........so I try not to discuss that part of my life anymore, but, I've also been fortunate that I finally got a leader to follow through with giving me some help----but it took 5 or 6 years. Badwolf--having watched a couple of divorces over the years, of couples In my ward----and hearing all the gossip and misconceptions of what was actually going on----and then learning different things later----I think you are right when you say that sometimes people do NEED to move into a completely different ward.

for me there wasn't a lot of "birth control" whatever we tried was really more "birth delay". for us it was a matter of not being able to STOP getting pregnant---until my uterus was totally worn out. just thought I'd throw that in there for kicks!!!LOL!!!

whoever said to document everything is absolutely right---i went through a divorce over 27 years ago---and my ex tried to hide all his assets before we split up--he was planning ahead and I didn't realize what he was doing---so I even signed certain things---which his attorney tried to point out in court---to make it look like I had agreed to these things. we were separated for a time, and my attorney thought we should wait a bit and see if my ex screwed up---and he did --he beat my son. When we finally ended up in court, the judge didn't fall for the scams he had tried to pull----one of my favorites---the judge awarded him the equity in the land he had "given" to his father.. He had signed our land and all our vehicles over to other people in order to make it look like he didn't have anything--but the judge saw right through it. I had also signed these things--but he had told me it was for a different reason. The judge knew I was young and had only graduated from high school---he gave my ex all the bills---and he took out bankruptcy, which left my name on a number of bills---and my own attorney, who got one of the judgments to be that my ex had to pay my attorney fees, continued to send me a bill!!!! Don't think I'd ever use him again. My new husband actually ended up paying some of my ex's bills at a lesser amount---he looks back and wishes he had never done it---but the only thing we could have done was take my ex to court---which would have just cost us more money. Divorces are nasty things. sounds like her ex is in contempt of court if he is not following the set down visitation. I have read the articles that talk about what a strong stand the church takes against spousal abuse in any form. she feels like she is not getting the support she needs because this man is living a lie--and they are believing it---you sound like you have seen it. Is there a reason that you can't speak up for her and let her church leaders know that you have known this couple all along and you know without a doubt that she is in desperate need of support from them? I don't know if that would be out of line, but if it's not, it certainly can't help to try. Ideally, we should all look to the Savior and not let what other people say and think bother us, and we should remain faithful regardless--but when you are really struggling and hurting---and it feels like no one cares----it is a lot easier said than done. Been there---still trying to get myself out of there. I have realized, especially after joining this board, that I have more of a testimony than I thought I did---but it is still a struggle sometimes. I hope that we can all pray for your friend, even though we don't know her--and I hope that she does not become so discouraged that she leaves the church. Remind her, that while her testimony is weak---she can lean on yours for awhile. I heard a neat testimony in church recently that said something something similar to that. Eowyn---love your screen name, by the way---your friend is quite a woman to be able to shut out the naysayers--I'm not sure I could do it myself---Has she ever told you what she did early on to keep from getting discouraged while her husband played "Peter Priesthood"? just wondering if she might have some insight that you might be able to pass on. I know, I'm an idealist, but sometimes I like to try and connect people in any way I can that might be able to help another. i know that I have been helped on this board---even while I felt like I was kicking and screaming to defend myself---sometimes, at least for me, I have found that I can start complaining about something in church that is really bothering me--and before the conversation is over---I find myself defending the church----some of us just handle things through a different process, I guess.

Pam--I am amazed---I also wonder if some of those names are the same person trying again and again?? some of the names were so similar. are they reprimanded--or removed? Also, I notice we are each designated by our length of time on the board (or is it number of posts?) under our names--or as moderators----what does it mean when it says 'banned" under someone's name---yet they are still posting---or have I just come on too late and someone with "banned" under their name has already been banned and I'm reading what is left? badwolf---I love children in church---that is part of why I have had a hard time adjusting to my new ward---and I grew up in this ward---but things have been changing for the better regarding children over the last 4 years. I still don't like it when a child is so loud that you cannot hear the speaker, though--and think they ought to be taken out at that point. However, I can remember one meeting where this little girl was chanting something over and over---not loud enough to disturb everyone---we were just sitting close---I thought it was hilarious---just wish I could remember what she was chanting.........I do think there is a happy medium.

What I'm suggesting is that a side effect of hypothyroidism is obesity if left untreated. A person could eat very few calories but if their thyroid becomes inactive and their metabolism slows down because of it, they can still gain weight. The above statement is a quote (Ihaven't had the time to try everyone's advice on how to do quotes) Not only will a person gain weight if their thyroid shuts down---they will die. My husband and I were both on thyroid suppression therapy, me for 10 years, my hubby for 17 years--but he also only had half of a thyroid that was supposed to work if he went off medication. He tried to go off and the first thing that was noticeable was his face was swelling up---his thyroid was no longer functioning very well---if at all. I have secondary adrenal insufficiency------I lost a tremendous amount of weight for no apparent reason--and I can remember eating ice cream one night and thingking that I could eat whatever I wanted because I wasn't going to gain weight. I finally was diagnosed and my cortisol was replaced---then I took an antidepressant--and gained 10 lbs the first month, approx the same the next month---and eventually ended up 20-30 lbs heavier. I have a pituitary problem that is causing me to have an imbalanced endocrine system and i don't produce cortisol or enough thyroid. It is possible that my pituitary problem could have been a different one--and it could have cause me to gain weight, instead. I am still 10 - 15 lbs more than I would like--but I am lucky to carry my weight well, so people think I am thinner than I really am--(glad they can't see me naked!) The WoW says wheat for man----my children have celiac disease and can't eat wheat---sop does that mean God was wrong? Does it mean that my children break the WoW if they don't take the sacrament bread if their isn't any gluten free bread? (someone actually said that to a celiac friend of ours!!) I am developing a guten intolerance---I will probably have to eventually give up wheat. I have heard for years that the word of wisdom says "moderation in all things" I don't think that exact quote is ever used anywhere. I think that the words "wisdom and prudence" got translated into moderation in all things by some of our parents generation--and it just stuck. There is some really colorful history to the early days of the WoW---but what it basically came down to during the early days of confusion, is that people were living the word of wisdom to the best of their ability according to their knowledge of the time and according to the medical knowledge of the time. We are fortunate to live in a time where the revelation has been made very clear to us---and how many calories it take to sustain a certain size---and it definitely does not tell us what size is the "ideal" size is---is not part of that revelation---but not drinking coffee and tea has been made very clear to us.

Has there been a lot of that in the past????? I thought that is what dating boards are for---that never even crossed my mind!!LOL!!! I almost feel a little dumb, now. I thought skippy was "nicely" referring to people sending unkind messages!!

slamjet--If I'm understanding what you are saying (I really don't read between the lines well), but it sounds like you are in the process of working on regaining your blessings after being "ex'd"--as you put it---i admire you for that. I have a sister who went through that process and made it back and had her blessings restored. I think that would also mean the blessings of your Patriarchal blessing---especially where you can still see things that are relavent in your life, even now. I am hoping that my slipping away, repenting, and becoming active again means the same thing for me, as far as my blessing goes----I am also able to see things that are relevant in my life, in my blessing, even though I didn't heed the warning it gave about not straying from my standards. I was so young when I strayed---I'm sure the Lord takes that in to consideration--at least I hope he does!

"love spam"? Is this a nice way of saying people have sent nasty messages?

When my husband had his PB I remember hearing something very specific when that really stuck in his mind. When he got the printed copy of his blessing---I read it---and could not find the very specific thing i had heard. I called and talked to the patriarchs wife and told her that I did not see something in his blessing that i was sure i had heard. She went back over the recording of his blessing, and then called me back and told me that i was right---for some reason, when it had ben typed up, that part of his blessing had been left out. He was sent a new, corrected version of his patriarchal blessing. The patriarch wife commented to me that maybe this had happened before when people have said they were sure they had heard something---but then it was not in their blessing when they got the printed copy----I think they must have assumed it was never really said. so i guess if you are listening carefully and hear something, but it doesn't show up in print--it is worth it to ask if their might be a mistake. My husband also was called back by the patriarch after his blessing to come back over because he had forgotten to tell him his lineage. It was very brief, and just enough of a blessing to declare his lineage---and then added to his blessing in the appropriate spot---not added like a separate blessing. I have often wondered about whether or not my blessing still applied to my life. i got it when I was 16--and it did talk about me being in my youth--it also said some very wonderful things--but I was told that there should be no lowering of standards and no compromise as to principles---well---I made a few mistakes over the years, but managed to get myself back on track by teh time I was 22. I have often wondered if because I made mistakes, whether or not my blessing was now null and void. I had one person, a number of years ago tell me I could get another one, but more recently i have been told that my mistakes did not make my blessing null and void. My blessing went well beyond my youth and talked about my future. It has been neat to see some of the things my blessing said come to pass in small ways--sometimes it has taken someone else saying something about me to even realize that I was seeing things happen in my life that were in my blessing----but i still can't help but wonder if my mistakes might not have changed a few things......I hope not.

I remember a conference talk given that parents should not always feel the need to get up and leave the chapel if their children start crying etc... I could not find it however. This is a quote from someone else's post---i just haven't figured out how to post a quote right, yet. I found this comment really interesting because of a very unusual experience we had in our sacrament meeting years ago---when David B. Haite was still alive. David B. Haite grew up in a small town about 30 miles from where I live. I think they had been restoring the old family home, or something, so he was in the area. For whatever reason, he chose our ward to attend for Sacrament meeting, so of course, he was asked to speak. I mentioned before the woman who would never take her children out when they were noisy---well, Elder Haite showed up at our meeting during the time this woman's child was a terror. During his talk, and speaking from the pulpit, he said, "sounds like that little one needs to be taken out." The woman got up and took her child out---fortunately, her husband was a member of the bishopric and she handled it gracefully. I just remember thinking about how she never took her child out and someone finally told her to. My husband was the bishop's executive secretary at the time and we all went on a Bishopric party shortly after that. The Sacrament meeting with Elder Haite came up during conversation--and I was surprised at how the bishop's wife felt about how the situation had been handled. She had thought it was horrible---I can remember her using a play on his name and saying, "talk about Hate." Obviously the story went around, and over the years I have heard several people talk about it---none of these people were in attendance at the meeting, they had just heard the story through who knows how many channels, so it was interesting to me to see what had happened to the original version over time, since I had actually been there when it happened. The overall feeling was negative--similar to the bishop's wife's reaction. The first time I heard the story from someone, I told the woman that Elder Haite had spoken in a friendly voice when this event happened. I don't believe Elder Haite was speaking at our ward on assignment from the church, and I think our ward was just picked at random for him to attend. I think the woman should have taken her child out on her own accord, realizing that people want to be able to hear the speaker---even if it wasn't a general authority. fortunately, no permanent harm was done to this woman's feelings towards the church--it's too bad that people who were not there talk about it and give their version of what happened. i just thought I would relate this story because i find it interesting to have heard an apostle tell someone her child needed to be taken out---and then to hear that there was a conference talk that said crying children don't always need to be taken out. Obviously, even our leaders differ in their feelings about how things should be done. I thought it was really cool that Elder Haite just showed up unannounced at our meeting--and at the time, i thought it was about time the lady was told to take her child out. I had no idea the story would take on a life of it's own and that so many years later I would still hear versions of it.

not saying this happened--but remember that sometimes people get sent private messages that no one else knows about.

I meant I think God doesn't really care if we rub our husband's sore back---sheeesh wish I could type

speaking of the temple altar cloth-------i was in the temple once and we were waiting--could have been when one of my twins got married last year---I kept trying to adjust the crocheted altar covering so that it would hang just right, and evenly. One of the older men told us something to the effect that the women would not let them touch the altar cloths. I thought this was so funny---men don't always seem to notice whether or not something is hanging straight---and I guess the women didn't want them to mess it up! I have really enjoyed the times when I have been in the temple when things have been a little more relaxed and the workers had time to answer questions and make comments. obviously, this would not be during a regular endowment session. The last time I went to do sealings, one the temple workers doing the sealings had been my bishop and my stake president, my neighbor, my doctor--had delivered my first two children, adn I had grown up at his house---my oldest daughter is named after his daughter. I had a question about something, so while people were switching places, I asked, and he took the time to answer me, and he stopped for a minute and said how nice it was to see several young couples taking the time to come and do this work (I had come without my husband, carpooling with one of the young couples) I pointed out to him that I wasn't so young--and he just smiled and said he had known me since i was young. I believe there is a time when we need to be very reverent, but i also believe that God has a sense of humor, and that he likes it when we can respectfully take a few minutes to ask questions and feel companionship in the temple, in the appropriate places. I also so think God really cares if we rub our husband's sore backs while they sit un a bench that might be less than comfortable for some---I'm sure he'd rather they were there getting their back rubbed instead of staying home because the bench made them too uncomfortable.

D & C 88:99 And after this another angel shall sound, which is the second trump: and then cometh the redemption of those who are Christ's at his coming: who have received their part in that prison which is prepared for them, that they might receive the gospel, and be judged according to men in the flesh. D & C 138 also has some very good information on this.

vort--i was actually hoping this post would die with my apology. Skippy's post helped me with the answer i was looking for--but for some reason wasn't able to word correctly. I'm surprised you think you sounded harsh--but I don't feel like I am in a difficult position---I figure the SP must have some reason for why he made the decision he did. I don't feel like I caught them with their pants down--and i don't think the SP was embarrassed, either, at me having point out something i thought was not right--and him researching it and discovering i WAS right. If you remember, whatever they were doing came about quite a few years before our present SP was in his position. missionary---thank you for acknowledging that there are some posts where people come across as cruel or insensitive---I have noticed it on other people's threads--not just my own. I do not feel like there was truth in a lot of the attacks that i got----for some reason, many people thought I was trying to speak badly of my stake President, which was not my intention at all. a few people seemed to have a better understanding of what it was I was trying to ask and answered more appropriately without accusing me of anything. Their answers were gentle and quiet--and not nearly as exciting for others to read as the ones who seemed to attack me, they were loud and accusing and seemed to create a feeding frenzy----and I think just about anyone who found them self in the middle of a shark or wolf attack (just an example) wouldn't just sit back and be eaten alive without putting up a fight---but I apologized for striking back--and that is all i can do. The Lord requires us to forgive others and ask for forgiveness if we have done something wrong---if others choose not to forgive when you ask for forgiveness---then it is on their shoulders. I don't suppose I will know whether or not those that struck out at me, and i struck back at, will accept my apology or not---but I'm not going to worry about it, either. As far as my testimony--it's not gone, but when I mentioned it was shaken up a bit--it has to do with much more than what this post was written about--and part of it is just plain old depression, which even the church acknowledges can make it hard to feel the spirit. However, I will tell you, that when a struggling person is seeking answers and trying to keep their testimony from crumbling---having people jump all over them is NOT helpful in the least. I think I was looking for a support group when i joined this board. i have been on other support group boards and people are very different. I realize, now, that this is not a support group for struggling members--this is a group for LDS people to get together to discuss things, and that is a legitimate type of group forum to have. i just misunderstood what i was joining----my mistake. I'll try to keep the reason for this board in mind if i choose to remain and start any new threads. And, I apologize in advance if I said anything wrong---I'm just not the type of person that would purposely say something to make someone angry or hurt their feelings.

I sometimes play notes with my right hand--like the others have said--but, if your not playing for a choir that needs to have all the notes hit so that everyone can sing their part, sometimes you can just leave a note unplayed and no one will ever know the difference. i can remember once, as a teenager, showing my younger sister how to fake your way through a hymn when it was more difficult to play. Really, since so many wards have so few piano players, they are just greatfull to have anyone that is willing to play---even if their hands aren't big enough to reach more than an octave!!! On the subject of piano playing----is anyone else surprised at the number of people who say they took piano lessons when they were younger---but do not play now, as an adult? Having been in more than one ward where I was one of only a few that could either play or was willing to play, I think I sometimes feel a little dismayed when I see so much effort being put into dance lessons instead of piano lessons. That being said, I'm the only piano player out of 11 girls---and i can't teach my own children how to play---it makes me crazy!!!! Fortunately my oldest daughter had more patience than me and was able to teach my twins quite a bit before i got them in to lessons---which they had to share.

You all have gotten into things that are totally beyond me!!!! One day in RS the lesson was on the trumps that would be blown at the second coming of Christ and out of 3 verses in a row, they only talked about the first and the third one. As I looked at my scriptures, I took the time to read the verse in the middle---and was amazed at what I read. i showed it to the two sisters that were sitting on either side of me---both of which have either family members that have strayed or are non-members. Both of them became very excited about what i showed them. They both felt like this verse gave them hope for their family members, and one of them thanked me for showing it to her. It spoke about the spirits that were in prison that had been preached to and repented---it said that they would be raised and that they were Christ's at his coming. If they will be Christ's at his coming, than they would have to have learned and repented while they were in spirit prison if when they were resurrected they were considered Christ's at his coming. Sounds to me like there is a chance for even those who were sent to spirit prison to progress and be accepted by the Lord. as soon as i found where my scriptures got put--I'l post the reference.

my hubby is a tire man--and has some lower back trouble sometimes----so he appreciates a back rub or a good scratch when he itches-----when his back itches. In the first few years we had been married, we were both speaking in church, and had to trade places at the pulpit---without thinking, because it was common for us at the time, we gave a quick peck on the lips as we passed----I just didn't stop to think about the fact that we were at the front of the chapel right close to the pulpit!! nobody complained

maureen---my original intention for my question was meant to be more general---and NO I am no longer questioning my stake president. I obviously just have an extremely hard time putting on paper (typing) what I am trying to say. skippy---i realize that people said similar things---but you said it in a way that made more sense---and you didn't accuse me of talking badly about my stake president, like some people did---which I was NOT meaning to do. All I wanted to know was if this was something that needed to be corrected so that everyone was aware of the changes that had come about and what was considered acceptable in our stake. Magen---I appreciate your thoughts----I am trying to avoid a crisis of testimony and trying to learn to adjust to a very different style of church leadership than I have been used to. I ask for everyone's forgiveness for my poor choice of words in asking my question and for being offended by some replies and for striking out when I felt offended---I will try and improve-----and i sure wish i could condense my thoughts into shorter sentences.........

thank you skippy!!! That is the kind of answer i really needed. Whatever was going on with the children in this stake started sometime before we ever moved in--and long before our present stake president. It bothered me very much because I have worked with the children for so much of my adult life and I remembered the scriptures that talk about how much Christ cared about the children, how he told his apostles not to keep the children from him---the story in the BoM where angels came and surrounded the children and such wonderful things were spoken that they could not even be repeated----and the prophesies of how in the last days that wonderful things would come out of the mouths of babes (hope I got most of those relatively right) It just seems to me that Heavenly Father and Christ feel that children are pretty important---especially when we are told to become like children. This stake made an issue of banning the children because of what they interpreted from the handbook---somewhere, I think the old handbook must have said that no one under 12 could participate in sacrament meeting----I've never seen it, I was only told this---but I had actually seen the part of the handbook that said that children's choirs and family choirs could sing. It seemed they were following the handbook so strictly about one thing and completely ignoring another. I didn't even go to the stake president to talk about this matter---i was visiting with him about something else, when it came up--and he said he would look it up. It was the same thing the next time I visited with him---I was about to leave, when I remembered to ask him what he had learned. Our stake seems to try and go by the handbook pretty closely, and the SP seemed to have felt the need to apologize to the stake leaders about having taught them wrong---I was just wondering if it was something that should be passed on to the rest of the members. Your answer that it was now his job to determine what to do with this information and act on it and my job is to sustain his judgement probably was the best answer to what I was actually asking. I feel like I have been developing a good enough relationship with my stake president and am becoming much more comfortable when I visit with him that if this is still really bothering me next month, I feel like I can ask him why he did not feel like it was information that needed to be told to the general congregations. With a little better help in understanding things, I feel like I can ask just out of curiosity and not with an attitude of feeling like they should be doing something different. You have helped me realize that there may be a very good reason that he wanted to make sure the teaching (of our stake leaders) was corrected-----but he did not feel like it needed to be "advertised" as he put it. Thank you again!!!!

Jenamarie----I really don't know if there are wards that have a lot of musical numbers or not---I just know that we seem to hear from the same people over and over again. The handbook actually recommends that the ward choir perform once a month!!! That's got to be pretty hard for wards that struggle to get a choir together. Anatess and Pam-----not all of us have a thicker skin at times---I spend a lot of my days in tears because of the struggles i am trying to work out---and restoring my testimony is one of them. I was being ridiculed and made fun of because of my question---and it was something that has really bothered me for some time. I had hoped that coming to an LDS support group I would get good LDS advice. There is a big difference between saying things like they are that may be hard for some people to hear-----and just plain ridiculing and making fun of people. I guess I expected more from people who believe the Gospel of Christ----I know he would never have made fun of my question or ridiculed me. I've read through other peoples threads and seen some of the same kinds of responses to people---it made me feel really bad for them. I realize that when you ask a question on the internet that you will get a wide variety of responses---but I didn't expect that people on an LDS board could be so unkind--------just doesn't seem like the Christian way to be. Being a Christian means that we are followers of Christ----and a good practice of being a follower of Christ would be to think, "what would Christ do or say?"

Jenamarie--thank you for giving me your honest opinion without sarcasm and without making fun of me because I am struggling to get my bearings back and get my feet back under me. It wasn't just a matter of not allowing the children to sing on mothers and fathers days---which is just a tradition, like you said. In our stake children were not allowed to bear their testimonies if they were under 12 years old, nor were they allowed to participate in a musical number with their family if they were under 12. I know that the lady in charge of musical numbers has such a hard time getting people to do anything, consequently, we end up hearing from the same few people over and over---or we hear from people outside of our ward. They have such a wonderful resource in the primary to have a few children sing, or just a class sing----I can certainly see that having the whole primary sing on a regular basis could be difficult---but my sister-in-law has told me that in her ward they are constantly asking the primary to sing. I don't think there needs to be a big deal made out of it---but I just kind of thought that people might like to know that it is alright to let their children bear their testimony, if their child can do it alone. I don't think that a lot of people realize it. They were never told from the pulpit, as far as I know, that the children were not allowed to bear their testimonies---I think it was just told to the adults in their meetings-----I would think that they could handle correcting the misconception in the same way---by just letting the adults know that the new handbook states very specifically that children may bear their testimonies if they can do it by themselves--however--they are still encouraged to practice in primary and at home until they can do it correctly and without help. Loudmouth---you ask what you are missing here---compassion, consideration, kindness--are a few things that come to mind. I've seen that a number of people on this board have a tendency to attack people when they come on with a sincere question about something that is bothering them or something that they are wondering about. If it weren't for some of the people on this board who answer questions sincerely, realizing that everyone is at a different level of growth--and some of us slip at times---I would have left this board after the first question I asked. Are you trying to help people, or are you trying to humiliate them? And, you said you ASSUMED that I wanted a statement from the podium or something------I was always taught that when you ASSUME all you do is make an A** out of U and ME. Does it make you feel good to have humiliated me on a public forum? do you feel that you have accomplished your job as a Latter-Day-Saint in helping me to understand things better? Do you feel like you have helped to bring me closer to the Lord and helped me to strengthen my testimony by answering me with sarcasm and making fun of me because I didn't mention everything that I am struggling with? Do you feel like your reply is the reply of a good and kind Latter-Day-Saint? If your answer to all those questions is yes---then either you or I do not belong to the same church. I realize that I have struggled with changes and with some of the things that have been said or done by my leaders--not ALL of my leaders---but then, I haven't told you everything that has been said or done since we have lived in a new stake and a new ward----but, I can tell you that I would never ridicule someone who was struggling and had questions. So.......where's the greater sin---questioning things you don't understand and that don't seem right, because you really are trying to get back on the right path---or ridiculing and making fun of the person that asks?

Bini--I'm afraid I came across wrong. I didn't take offense to this thread at all--and my suggestion of offering to help came from my past experience, before my husband and I were married. I was a divorced mother with two very young children. Since I lived with my parents, I usually had their help. When my parents were out of town, there was a particular woman---she was the mother of one of my good friends, and she would always step in and help me if I was having trouble handling my two little ones alone. I was just throwing the suggestion of helping out there for people to consider. We tried to take our children out as quickly as possible if they were being disruptive---and I definitely agree with you that it is the parents responsibility to teach their children reverence. There was a lady in our ward who's two youngest children were the same age as my 3rd and (4th & 5th, twins) She would never take her children out when they were disruptive---and she had one that was so naughty. I remember her leaving church once--and he was running away from her--and she tried to get him to come back and said, "you don't want to do that." Obviously he did!!!! No one could control this child in primary----I think they were somewhat afraid of him. A new woman moved into the ward who only had one older daughter--and was in the process of adopting a 2 year old. this woman was kind---but she wouldn't tolerate any nonsense, either----for the first time, someone was able to control this boy. She was his primary teacher first, and then she lead the music---and she just did not tolerate his misbehavior. I used to think the kid was a serial-killer in the making---but I am happy to say that he eventually grew up to be a pretty decent kid. (as far as I know) We only have 4 children still at home, the youngest is 9, so we don't have a whole lot of behavior issues at church--but we still have to get after our kids occasionally to behave. It bothers me when someone lets their child go on for too long, making a fuss, before they take them out. Even though we had a lot of young children at one time, we didn't want to spoil the meeting for others if our children were fussy---unfortunately, at our new building, they don't have the speakers on in the foyer very often----so anyone who takes their child out doesn't get to hear the meeting very well. We used to attend a ward where the speaker control was out in the foyer---sure made it nice to be able to hear the meeting---and adjust the sound when the other ward got out and was noisy as they were leaving. I'm so sorry that I came across wrong!!

I am seeking to know the truth and am battling with within myself to keep the negative at bay. I feel like I am a bit behind in the fight, but I hope to come out ahead in the end. I have had some good discussions with my stake president, and he was the one who saw my question as a challenge for him. He wanted to look it up---especially since he was going to be teaching on the very thing I was wondering about. This was not a matter of whether or not I thought something was wrong in MY eyes---the stake president himself told me they had been teaching it wrong----I appreciate the fact that he could be so honest with me and tell me that I had been right and that he had apologized to the stake people he was teaching. What I see is that there is the potential for an entire stake to have an incorrect belief because we are taught to follow what our leaders teachings. I can't understand why they would not want to correct something they know has been taught wrong. The title of my thread was, "should incorrect teachings be corrected?" And the answer to that question is what I am seeking---not a judgement of what someone "thinks" I may or may not be spending my time thinking about. Please don't assume something about me because I am trying to figure out what is right and what is wrong. I only asked my stake president what he had learned when he had studied up on what we had talked about previously---he was the one who said they had been wrong.

I have never heard the term "mormon corridor" either---and I Have lived in southern idaho for 40 years. My hubby and i have 11 children between the two of us. We moved into our last ward with 2 teenagers, a 6yr old, a 4 yr old, and a 6 week old baby---and proceeded to have 6 more children, including a set of twins, over the next 14 years. We usually sat on the front row, because that was the only seat we could guarantee to get----I always wanted to sit in the back with all my little ones, but it seems like the older people in the ward usually got there first. My husband always told me to give it up, when I complained about wanting to be able to sit in the back. We always tried to take our kids out when they were too noisy. I spent alot of time parading from the front of the chapel to the back doors to get out with a noisy child, or a baby that needed nursing or changing. I had one child that would wander---but she was VERY quiet---so I let her wander---she was a very independent and stubborn child, and I knew if i tried to contain her, all heck would break loose. I figured a quiet wandering child was better than a screaming child---I've always figured there were probably people who didn't approve---but if I ever said anything, people would always tell me that my children were so well behaved---HA! My second to last child has been hell-on-wheels since she was a toddler. She took off running in the chapel once---and all I could do was watch. I knew if I went after her, she would think it was a game----I watcher her run to the back--then across the back to the other side--up to the front--then back to the back again---halfway across the back, an older woman stuck out her arm and grabbed her around the waist. Once she had her caught---I got up and went back to get her. I was greatful that someone caught her for me. It was one of those times when you are just frozen in place, knowing that any action on your part at the moment will only make things worse. I managed to get the back row once---and someone from the bishopric mentioned something about our family not being there that day---because he couldn't see us in our usual place on the front row. He later told me he was glad I had sat on the back row because he said "we have people fighting with light sabers over that back row." It was surprising how rude people could actually be over that back row. i sat down once, and left space for my family. Everyone knew how big our family was. A group of several older people came back, and all sat down together in the place I had waiting for my family---I could have spoken up--but I didn't. The first time i sat on the back row, I got several comments---"are you sitting here?" I think they were shocked that I took "their place". Either that, or they were shocked that I wasn't on the front row. I didn't keep up my fight for the back row up for very long--it just wasn't worth it. i used to tell my husband that we did a service at church---we kept everyone awake behind us. I feel like we managed to keep our children relatively quiet during church--and we took them out if they were too disruptive. But, I can tell you, that with a lot of small children, sometimes it is better to offer to help young parents with their children than it is to sit back and watch them struggle.