johnnybelcaro

I always find points where I disagree with these people. But these street missionaries make me feel uncomfortable because I feel I should be doing much more to testify to others of my love for the Savior and my church. I have to respect them, and wish them well, for doing what's in their hearts.

Hi Ironhold. I am so sorry you are having to live with this. It must be very hard to never know when your muscles will misbehave. Do you have some friends who are patient and understanding? You must have so much to say that you cannot get said. Are you seeing a doctor who has some hope for treatments or medication? I am totally drug free but I have heard some doctors have had some success with cannabis to help relax muscles? If you need another friend to chat with I plan to visit this website more. You are one of God's best. John

It sounds to me like you may have temporarily received the Gift of Knowledge, i.e. supernatural knowledge you had no way of knowing but by the spirit within you. Thanks for sharing this experience.

Hello CV75--Thank you for presenting your opinions. I would like to discuss them. I understand all of these topics you mentioned refer to the Gift of the Holy Spirit, which was permanently given to all believers by God on the Day of Pentecost. I would be interested to understand how you feel they might be different from each other. Some additional names for this incredible Gift are: "Power from on high." Luke 24:49 "Promise of my Father." Luke 24:49 "...mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations" Coloss 1:26, "mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" Rom 16:25-26, Eph 3:5&9, I Cor 2:1-10 I understand that there were 9 sub-gifts within in this grand Gift of the Holy Spirit, arriving on Pentecost, that were all supernatural and were considered "Manifestation Gifts", because the assistance of the spirit within us is required to manifest or operate them. These are found in 1 Corinthians 12. There is another group of 5 gifts found in Ephesians 4:8-12 that are considered "Ministering Gifts" that were given to the church. These gifts are apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. Nothing supernatural here. A third group of gifts are "Serving Gifts", found in Romans 12:6-8 and include prophesy, teaching, leadership, exhortation, ministration, mercy and giving. These are not supernatural but are more like personality traits or talents, found in both believers and non-believers. Nothing supernatural. Some gifts have the same name so it is important to know from which group the gift, under discussion, belongs. I understand that, prior to Pentecost, with the exception of speaking in Tongues, all of these "Manifestation Gifts" did exist, and were manifested by various people at various times in the Old and New Testament times on a temporary basis. I don't find any place in the scriptures where Jesus performed miracles before He received the Holy Spirit, but after He did, it appears He was was unlimited in His ability to perform all miracles. I would be very interested to know where to find, prior to Pentecost, that the apostles already had the full Gift of the Holy Ghost that was given by God on Pentecost on a permanent basis. I am aware of the apostles having temporary experiences with some of the powerful gifts of the Holy Ghost, that was given to them by Jesus but this was only for some of the gifts, and not on a permanent basis. There is no doubt in my mind that on the Day of Pentecost, the 9 Manifestation Gifts of the Holy Spirit were given to all believers in Christ, on a permanent basis for the first time in the history of mankind. Whether or not these gifts were then and are now manifested, was/is dependent on the recipient's belief/faith that he/she has been given the power, that he/she elects to manifest the power, and the spirit's desire for the manifestation to take place. I would love to know why and when this beautiful, precious Gift that our heavenly Father gave to all of us believers on Pentecost has been changed in the least degree. Where do we find that God said this gift may be altered, redefined or ignored, depending on changes in worship and testifying practices over time and cultures? A lot of people used this thinking to cause the Great Apostasy. I would love to hear the details about when, how and why our church leaders abandoned practicing, encouraging and teaching the self nurturing benefit of communicating with our spirit within and to God. using the spirit language. I appreciate exchanging ideas and words with you, and only want to come to know what is True.

I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I would like to kindly share some of my findings: JS was correct on this regarding the gift of interpretation of tongues, however, manifesting the gift of tongues was to be done alone, in private for the purpose of communing with the spirit within and with God. Speaking in this spirit language was for the education, edification, and comfort for the believer. I sadly agree with this statement. After the apostles died, the early church began drifting away from what God had given them for similar reasons, resulting in the great apostasy. I am grateful we haven't "gotten suspicious of", and "become groomed to find unseemly" many of the other original Church of Jesus Christ's doctrines. What is so sad to me is, I believe that abandoning or redefining some of these Gifts of the Holy Spirit, have retarded our ability to get closer to the Holy Spirit and the Father. These are the blessings and benefits I have found so far by speaking in the spirit language: 1. Paul recommends it and it leads to prophesizing. 1 Cor 14:5, 13, 37. 2. To edify us. 1 Cor 14:4; Jude 20 3. To speak to God divine secrets we may not even know. 1 Cor 14:2 4. To speak the wonderful works of God. Acts 2:11 5. To magnify God. Acts 10:46 6. To pray perfectly. Romans 8:26,27 7. To give thanks well. 1 Cor 14:17 8. To have the Spirit bearing witness along with our spirit. Romans 8:16 9. To know that you are a joint heir with Christ. Romans 8:17 10.To strengthen you with might in your inner man. Eph 3:16; 2 Cor 4:16 11.Rest to the soul. Isaiah 28:11,12; 1 Cor 14:21 I am sure Satan loves that we discontinued receiving all these benefits because we are afraid that speaking in tongues is from him. I asked ChatGPT what Hugh Nibley had to say about speaking in tongues and it said, that he said it should be treated as an authentic, sacred experience rather than a phenomena to be tested or scrutinized under human judgment. For him, these gifts were a sign of divine interaction and should manifest in ways that build up the church and faith, rather than for show or pride. He saw them as tools for edification and the spread of the gospel. You are so very right. Thanks for the idea exchange.

thank you

I am a curious convert who joined the church 15 years ago because of all the answers the church has given to me. I finally took the great advice of all the talks I've heard, and have begun to pray and study the scriptures in order to receive revelation. I guess it has worked as I have opened the door to many more questions. I decided to narrow the field of my studies to the Holy Spirit. Starting with the New Testament I quickly found, on the Day of Pentecost, God gave all those who believe in Jesus Christ, the Gift of the Holy Spirit on a permanent basis, to help teach, guide, council, protect and love each believer. As a powerful part of this Gift, the apostles, as well as other believers in the area, began to speak in unknown languages, called speaking in tongues, which they had never learned. This was evidence that the Gift had been received. In the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians there are several fascinating benefits of speaking in this spirit language. I am aware our church explains this gift was given to help missionaries learn a new language of an investigator they want to teach, but I believe there is much more to be understood here. As I continue to read the scriptures, I am thinking that speaking in tongues may also be an important key for the holy spirit within each of us, to communicate with the Father on our behalf, and to instruct us on the mysteries of the other 8 gifts included in the Gift of the Holy Spirit God gave us all on the Day of Pentecost. I know speaking in tongues appears bizarre and illogical, but so was telling the Israelites to just look at a bronze serpent on a pole to keep from dying from a snake bite. Are there any of you reading this post who have had thoughts along these lines? I would really like to find someone in our faith who would like to explore this Gift from God with me.