From Genesis... can anyone translate?

[rameumptom]

This is what my late uncle Hugh Nibly said about this. The "sons of god" refers to the rightious linage of Seth, son of Adam. The "daughters of men" referes to the line of the unrightious Cain. No angles popping human cherries and no half angel men (Nephilem) running around. That concept was invented by the roman church and the darkness of lack of understanding since there was a period of no priesthood upon the earth.

Hope it clears it up for ya!

If he were your uncle, would you be mispelling his name like this?

I've read Nibley's writings concerning the Watchers (some of it included in his book, Enoch the Prophet), and he does state what you do that we are discussing mortals that held special gifts of God, who then used them for illicit purposes.

Nibley decided it was Adam's sons who slept with Cain's daughters, because the idea of other peoples being around at the time was no accepted in LDS thought whatsoever. There is the possibility of others being here, and that the sons of Adam (including Cain) fell away and mixed with the seed of other non-Adamic groups.

[rameumptom]

Mr Nirom, thanks for your points. Still, Goliath does not figure in here. Enoch's day figures in about 3000 BC and Goliath/David's day about 1000BC. In between, we have the Flood of Noah, so it is highly unlikely that anything involving Goliath's genetics would have to do with the Watchers.

[VisionOfLehi]

Goliath was of the same "people" as "The Watchers"

He was after the flood, but the same "race."

Which indicates to me that it's more than just genetics, but some sort of outside influence.

However, I believe that someone descended from a giant could have easily been aboard the ark. We know that someone was a descendant of Cain.

And knowing about recessive genetic traits...it could have been carried on even after that.

[MrNirom]

Mr Nirom, thanks for your points. Still, Goliath does not figure in here. Enoch's day figures in about 3000 BC and Goliath/David's day about 1000BC. In between, we have the Flood of Noah, so it is highly unlikely that anything involving Goliath's genetics would have to do with the Watchers.

So there were only how many people that survived after the flood?

And how did Giants then continue after the flood?

Unless you are saying that a new genetic race was created after the flood that made these big people.

I was really just trying to explain that there are big people and have been big people.. and it has nothing to do with Angels being with women creating giants. IMHO.

[rameumptom]

The ancient writings suggest that the giants in Enoch and Noah's day were as tall as trees. Definitely higher than Goliath's nine feet. There was no DNA passed beyond the great flood, if we believe in a global flood. Why not? Because only Noah and his family were saved, and the giants were not among them, as they opposed and tried to kill Noah.

We do NOT know that any descendant of Cain was on the ark. Archaeology shows that the Canaanites were Semites, a white race. Are there Protestant traditions about Cain's race coming down? Yes. Did Brigham Young embrace this concept from the Protestants? Yes. Did later leaders try to philosophically justify the priesthood ban by claiming the Cain curse continued? Yes. But those are only traditions, and have no archaeological nor doctrinal point in fact. Elder Bruce R. McConkie stated after the 1978 revelation that all those previous teachings were wrong and needed to be left behind as we embrace the new revelation and new understanding. Well, the new understanding is here and is available at FAIR's www.blacklds.org website.

I think we are placing too much consideration on ancient genetics that probably did not pass down to this day. The same DNA concepts that we use to defend the book of Mormon show that it is highly unlikely statistically for any of Cain's DNA to remain today on earth.

[Adeipho]

If he were your uncle, would you be mispelling his name like this?

Brother NiblEY is infact my great uncle. Brother to my paternal grandmother. Sealed to her and their parents, and to my parents and ultimatley to myself. The fact that I "misspelled his name" is due to the fact that I type 700,003WPM with only 600,843 mistakes. And your inquary into my honesty is a mere attempt at contention, which is of the devil 3rd Nephi Ch. 11: 29 so I will not give more than an aknowledgement to it.

[Adeipho]

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I have to question whether that's entirely true. While I don't doubt the Nibley was correct that conception between bodiless creatures and the embodied is impossible, I'm not sure how someone wicked laying with someone righteous would cause giants to appear on the earth.

Men like Goliath were descendants of these unions, but what these unions are I'm not sure. I can look it up in "Commentary on the Torah" by Richard Elliott Friedman tonight? If anyone would know, it'd be him. He's the head of Jewish studies at NYU. :)

Or, we could get a definitive answer from the Prophet.

There could have been any number of reasons the Lord wanted the sons of god to refrain from the daughters of men. Perhaps the giant size of their offspring was a genetic mutation that while appeared impressive held many underlying medical issues, much like those of us living today who are over the 7'5'' mark? An example of this thinking would be the washing of hands by the Israelites before eating. To them it was just a religious ordinance but we with our modern knowledge also know that washing hands prevents the spread of germs and viruses. Perhaps the washing hands ordered by the Lord had a dual purpose? Perhaps the reason he wanted to keep the sons of god fom the daughters of men was an unknown medical condition? After all the brother of Goliath had too many fingers and toes.

But one thing is for sure, a wave of angels were not allowed to invade the world of our probation and commit the greatest sin next to the shedding of innocent blood with those mortal women who had kept their first estate and were in the midst of their probation.

Not even Satan and his angels has the ability to do that and Satan is the "prince of this world".

[Moksha]

You need to talk to your bishop...

Wonder if the Bishop saw it too? It is easy to be a fan of of an Earth Girl like Geena Davis.