allesok Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Posted August 30, 2008 allesok,What you view as cruelty may very well be compassion when properly understood. God does know what is happening on both sides of the veil. When one leaves this life they simply move to the other side. It is possible that those who were killed by His command have a better chance of reaching exaltation on the other side of the veil. Maybe they were wicked and would have been for generations, and to give more of His children a greater chance of salvation He knew it was best to send them to the other side.I would never dare call anything God does "cruelty" until I at least first understood His reason.But, my guess is He can completely justify His actions.Since we don't know what gives a person the best chance at succeeding, we should leave all such decisions to Him and trust He is doing what is best for the greater number of His children.That way we might just as well justify the Holocaust and Al Qa'ida... Quote
Justice Posted August 30, 2008 Report Posted August 30, 2008 We were talking about what God commands, as in killing everything that lived in the promised land, weren't we? We aren't talking about men using their agency for evil, but when God commands men to do something that seems to be contrary to previous commands. Quote
allesok Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Posted August 30, 2008 We were talking about what God commands, as in killing everything that lived in the promised land, weren't we?We aren't talking about men using their agency for evil, but when God commands men to do something that seems to be contrary to previous commands.I don't believe that God would command us to act against the words of Jesus!And how do you know that the holocaust and Al Qa'ida was/is Gods will?But which god?Al Qai'da does claim that what they do is gods will (but I do NOT believe that).Who is Allah? Quote
Justice Posted August 30, 2008 Report Posted August 30, 2008 You're moving too fast and bringing too many things into this discussion.I don't believe that God would command us to act against the words of Jesus!Joseph Smith stated that "Whatever God commands is right."God says, "Thou shall not kill," and He says, "Utterly destroy all who live in this place," and both are right. We must keep all His commandments. We do not know the widsom of God.And how do you know that the holocaust and Al Qa'ida was/is Gods will?I said man can use his agency for evil. I thought that was plain enough.But which god?There is only One God. That is the God I am speaking about. I'm speaking about "God, the Eternal Father."Al Qai'da does claim that what they do is gods will (but I do NOT believe that).Who is Allah?Those are different topics for a different discussion. Quote
allesok Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) There is only one "head of the gods" as Joseph Smith called him, one prime creator. But there are many gods, 'Elohim, created by Him, as Joseph Smith also said. So the question I was really aiming at from the beginning is: Is the LDS god one that was created? It looks like that, if he first was as a man who became a god. Is Allah one of these created Gods? And Yahveh? It seems to me that his Yahveh's cruelty indicates that he is a created god! I believe that the prime creator would never order to kill. And I believe that Christ is the creator god's love. According to discoveries in archaeology and the research in the history of religion from the last 3 decades, the original (pre-)Hebrew religion was polytheistic. There was a highest God, 'El 'Eliyon, who had 70 sons. One of his sons was Yahveh, who had a consort: Asherah. (See the research report: "Ein Gott allein?" = "Only one God?" with texts in German and English by various participants in a scientific colloquium in Switzerland 1993), Universitätsverlag, Freiburg (Switzerland), 1994. So 'El Elyon would be the "head of the gods" and the 'Elohim his sons. Edited August 30, 2008 by allesok Quote
mikey9a Posted August 30, 2008 Report Posted August 30, 2008 There is no direct revelation as to the beginning of God. There is reference to the point that God must have gone through the same experience as Christ had. What is the quote? As God is so can man be, as man is so God once was? Other than that, this question is purely academic. Not necessary to know for salvation. Quote
allesok Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Posted August 30, 2008 It may make a difference if we give ourselves to belong to a "lesser" god or to the highest one, the prime creator. Quote
mikey9a Posted August 30, 2008 Report Posted August 30, 2008 My point was that it is not necessary to know the origin of God or he would have revealed it too us. He has declared that following his Only Begotten son is the only way to return to him. Quote
mikey9a Posted August 30, 2008 Report Posted August 30, 2008 We believe that there is one God the Father, One Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost. Anything beyond that is not introduced in detail by revelation to his church. Quote
allesok Posted August 30, 2008 Author Report Posted August 30, 2008 Which of the many Churches? Quote
bmy- Posted August 31, 2008 Report Posted August 31, 2008 We believe that there is one God the Father, One Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost. Anything beyond that is not introduced in detail by revelation to his church.http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/13832-uncomfortable-doctrine.html Quote
allesok Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) This discussion has been quite extensive and very interesting and I thank you all. Now I wish to conclude it on my side with a conclusion as I see it: The prime creator created a number of created gods, the 'Elohim. One of them resides on or near a planet or star called Kolob (which some seem to think is Sirius). He has had something to do with bringing forth human life on our Earth, either as a secondary (since he is created himself) creation or through modifying already existing life forms on our planet. Others reside elsewhere in cosmos and some of them have also had some influence on life on this Earth. What about the Anunnaki? [Google this word if you don't know it and/or read the books by Sitchin.] What about the Pleiadians? [Read the books by Marciniak.] And what about still others? The Azteks talk about Quetzalcoatl, the "feathered serpent", in ways which make you thing about an extraterrestrial visitor. The Incas talk about Viracocha, who came from the Milky Way and later returned to it. There are comparable stories in the traditions of other peoples. Yahveh is in the Bible's Hebrew text usually called "Yahveh 'Elohim" which to me indicates that he is also one of the created 'Elohim. Is he the one on/at Kolob? Or is he still another one, who influenced life on this Earth and still does so? Jesus cannot well be an incarnation of Yahveh, since there are too many contradictions between them. It rather seems that Yahveh tried to prevent the teachings of Jesus to spread over the world and has been quite successful in distorting them... To me it seems much more likely that Christ, who incarnated as Jesus, is something like the manifested love of the prime creator. Therefore I belong to Christ and to the prime creator who sent him, and not to any 'Elohim. But the subjects interests me a lot and I have from ancient and other scriptures and texts come not only to this conclusion, but to many others, which I cannot present here, since it would be far and much too long. Kind regards to you all "allesok" Edited August 31, 2008 by allesok Quote
HiJolly Posted August 31, 2008 Report Posted August 31, 2008 I think that considering your apparent mindset, you have made a good choice. Trust in Christ. Always a good choice. HiJolly Quote
Vanhin Posted August 31, 2008 Report Posted August 31, 2008 And since Christ is the God who created everything, gives us the commandments, shows the example, atones for our sins, and ultimately sits as our judge, I would agree... Always a good choice. Vanhin Quote
allesok Posted August 31, 2008 Author Report Posted August 31, 2008 Thanks for your understanding. Quote
bmy- Posted August 31, 2008 Report Posted August 31, 2008 Just throwing something out there.. it's always interesting to consider 'Godhood' as a calling. Like Priest, Elder, High Priest.. etc. It's just progression within the priesthood imo. At least for us. Quote
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