"it's In The Past"

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow+Jan 31 2005, 10:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Jan 31 2005, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Jan 31 2005, 12:32 PM

I don't want to "come to peace" with the gospel.  I want to be convinced, either by the Spirit or anything else.  Making my way in the Church as I've done thus far is hard, and I question my capacity to do it indefinitely.

Maybe it's easier for me because I have been convinced and then reconvinced at two forks of the road in my life. Still I have to occassionally come to peace when I have to put something in it's proper context.

You remind me of something Michael Quinn said in a lecture last year about Ruben J. Clark. Quinn put it that Clark, hadn't been convinced by the Spirit either - perhaps like you; and that at some point, he simply willed himself to have the requisite faith to fullfill his calling. It must have worked for him somehow.

I wonder hoowww that would be ~ to be without concrete knowledge and still go forward. He had to be very strong. Christ said, "blessed are those who believe after they have seen me, but more blessed are those who believe and never seen me." or something like that.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 05:16 PM

I wonder hoowww that would be ~ to be without concrete knowledge and still go forward. He had to be very strong. Christ said, "blessed are those who believe after they have seen me, but more blessed are those who believe and never seen me." or something like that.

Personally I don't think anyone, or most anyone, has "concrete" knowledge. I don't. I have an assurance that ebbs and flows with energy and devotion I put into it. A very solid assurance but not concrete.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow+Feb 1 2005, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Feb 1 2005, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 05:16 PM

I wonder hoowww that would be ~ to be without concrete knowledge and still go forward. He had to be very strong. Christ said, "blessed are those who believe after they have seen me, but more blessed are those who believe and never seen me." or something like that.

Personally I don't think anyone, or most anyone, has "concrete" knowledge. I don't. I have an assurance that ebbs and flows with energy and devotion I put into it. A very solid assurance but not concrete.

What would you consider concrete? Visitations? Visions? The Voice? Or what?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Snow+Feb 1 2005, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Feb 1 2005, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Amillia@Feb 1 2005, 05:16 PM

I wonder hoowww that would be ~ to be without concrete knowledge and still go forward. He had to be very strong. Christ said, "blessed are those who believe after they have seen me, but more blessed are those who believe and never seen me." or something like that.

Personally I don't think anyone, or most anyone, has "concrete" knowledge. I don't. I have an assurance that ebbs and flows with energy and devotion I put into it. A very solid assurance but not concrete.

Do you believe JS had concrete knowledge? How? What form?

[Lindy]

P Duck~

I don't want to "come to peace" with the gospel. I want to be convinced, either by the Spirit or anything else

I have found that sometimes it's the "peace" that was the convincing factor to me. And silly as it might sound, it was the little things that quieted my spiritual longing to know the truth.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Jan 31 2005, 01:32 PM

Would a more open Church save more souls? Like you, I don't know.

That is such a great question. This is exactly why I now believe that "salvation" doesn't exist in any church. Some people seem to progress very well spiritually in a church that demands it's members believe so much. Other people are destroyed spiritually by such a task. More is expected of us than almost any other Christian denomination. For those of us who have a hard time believing certain doctrines, we just hang in there for the sake of the greater good.