Homosexuality Is Normal

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bizabra+Feb 15 2004, 11:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bizabra @ Feb 15 2004, 11:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Peace@Feb 14 2004, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by -antishock82003@Feb 13 2004, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by -Paul Osborne@Feb 11 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by -antishock82003@Feb 11 2004, 07:32 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Feb 11 2004, 07:25 PM

Cal,

Can homosexuals reproduce?

Duh....of course they can. All they have to do is have sex with the opposite sex silly.

Why would they want to do that? Wouldn't they get grossed out?

Paul O

I don't know. How would you explain that homosexuals have been around since ancient times. It's either a natural behavior inherent to our species, or they're passing on their homo-genes through reproduction. I tend to think that it just comes naturally to a certain percentage of humans.

Satan and his gillions of demonic angels have been around that long as well. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if a female demon possessed a guy that he would totally become feminant? And if a male demon possessed a girl that she would totally become masculin? And in so doing, would be having those desires towards the demons opposite sex....which would happen to be the hosts same sex?

OMIGOD, PEACE! Thanks SO MUCH for this precious titbit! It had actually NEVER OCCURRED to me to think about the demonic angel possession angle before! It truly does go far towards 'splainin things 'n stuff. Sho 'nuff seems plenty clear to me now. . . . .sheesh, wonder why I never thought of this before . . . . . . .mebbe it's cuz I am a sinner and apostate and don't gots the spirit in me anymo. . . . . . sigh. . . . . . .

Finally...you are getting it.

[Guest bizabra]

I'm 44, Peace. I'll leave it up to the reader to determine if that qualifies for "young and naive".

Nice to know that you can recognize humour when you see it. Heh heh heh. NOT!

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by bizabra@Feb 15 2004, 01:28 PM

I'm 44, Peace.  I'll leave it up to the reader to determine if that qualifies for "young and naive". 

Nice to know that you can recognizewhen you see it.  Heh heh heh.  NOT!

I accept only that you don't know a whole lot, that to me is young and naive. I had a 73 year old FIL who acted like a two year old emotionally, (stomping on his clothes his wife layed out for him, because they weren't the ones he wanted to wear) and was as dumb as they come...for instance: He thought that daniel in the lion's den was found in the BofM.

So age means nothing....it is only if you improve upon your time and gain wisdom and maturity which only can come through spiritual means, that you can pull your head out of the sand and begin to see and understand truth.

If you deny all things spiritual, you can't become mature, nor wise, and therefore remain in a naive state of being.

As for your brand of humor...I choose to use it how I will.

If you notice, your spelling of humour is the European brand. Are you European?

[Guest Starsky]

Try this link Biz....it is awesome and may let you get a good look at things.

Growing mature in our thinking...

[Paul Osborne]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 15 2004, 01:42 PM

Try this link Biz....it is awesome and may let you get a good look at things.

Growing mature in our thinking...

I think Biz sometimes acts like a 14 year old, but that's ok, I do it too. It's fun!

Paul O

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I just got this in my email...

Remember that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination.

End of debate.

However, I do need some advice from you regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev.1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

3. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

[elinz]

Isn't the idea of an eternal and unchanging doctrine

something that the LDS church does not support?

My understanding is that new revelation is how

doctrine is changed.

The "newest" revelation might be about how the

brain has a pleasure center that lays down pathways

after a pleasurable experience.

A gambler gets "hooked" on a positive feeling and

is just as addicted as a smoker who uses a chemical.

Homosexuality is thus like being a gambler.

Once "hooked" the physical pathways in the brain

are essentially permanent.

So, while people are not born gay, they might

acquire the addiction if there is sufficient repeated

behavior even if it's just mental imaging.

Homosexuality is just a bad addiction... B)

(see this months Scientific American)

[Guest Starsky]

Here we go again....Tao...there is a big difference between God being unchanging...acting upon unchanging principles, and the very much changing applications....

To sacrifice is an eternal principle....but the application changes according to the needs and knowledge and spiritual maturity of the people God is working with. So much for your bullllll....

To pervert the purpose forwhich one is created...has nothing to do with changing application from God. It is perversion...of an eternal principle of eternal offspring and dominion.

Application-changes

Principle-never!

You need to be able to at least distinguish between the two. And stop grouping them together as the same thing. They are not.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 17 2004, 12:46 PM

Isn't the idea of an eternal and unchanging doctrine

something that the LDS church does not support?

Yes, so I guess the point of that quote above was that basing anti-homosexual beliefs on the Bible does not make sense, unless one is willing to continue to follow the rest of the Law of Moses.

Unless...there is something in the New Testament or the LDS scriptures forbidding homosexuality?

Is there? I don't have time to look it up.

As for scientific or moral explanations, I have no opinion on the matter.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 17 2004, 12:52 PM

Application-changes

Principle-never!

You need to be able to at least distinguish between the two. And stop grouping them together as the same thing. They are not.

I see what you are saying.

But what was the eternal priniciple behind allowing slavery?

[elinz]

Tao, you're funny!

You completely skipped past the core truth of

my posting.

Homosexuality shows all the charactoristics

of being an addiction.

Addictions are hard to break, but to begin to

create a mythology about homosexuality as

some "grand identity" is simply flawed.

Homosexuality is a rationalization for behavior! B)

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 17 2004, 01:06 PM

Tao, you're funny! 

You completely skipped past the core truth of

my posting.

Homosexuality shows all the charactoristics

of being an addiction.

I'm not disagreeing with your theory that it might be an addiction. I also don't disagree with the scientists who say it is a genetic thing. I'm also am not really sure that it is a harmful behavior, regardless of its origin. Some say it is, some say it isn't. I don't have any experience in that area.

But...my purpose for that post about the Law of Moses was just to find out if Christians (including Mormons) can justify homophobia with scriptures...which is what they do.

But using the Old Testament alone doesn't seem to make sense.

[elinz]

There is no evidence so far that a "gay gene"

is really even valid.

The gay groups invented the idea in order

to gain political capital. It's a big fat myth so far.

Sin, is simply error.

Addictions are errors that you can't stop repeating.

So in a sense homosexuality is a sin.

Do you get the thought process?

When homosexuality involves rape it takes the

sin up a notch. Not only have you damaged

yourself, but now you're polluting the rest of

the population.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint+Feb 17 2004, 01:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Taoist_Saint @ Feb 17 2004, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Peace@Feb 17 2004, 12:52 PM

Application-changes

Principle-never!

You need to be able to at least distinguish between the two. And stop grouping them together as the same thing. They are not.

I see what you are saying.

But what was the eternal priniciple behind allowing slavery?

The eternal principle was a warning and punishment carried out.

Here are the blessings given by Israel to his sons....

THE FIRST BOOK OF MOSES CALLED

GENESIS

CHAPTER 49

Jacob blesses his sons and their seed—Reuben, Simeon, and Levi are chastened—Judah shall bear rule until Shiloh (Christ) comes—Joseph is a fruitful bough by a well—His branches (the Nephites and the Lamanites) to run over the wall—The Shepherd and Stone of Israel (Christ) shall bless Joseph temporally and spiritually—Jacob chooses to be buried with his fathers in Canaan—He yields up the ghost and is gathered to his people.

1 AND Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.

3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power:

4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel; because thou wentest up to thy father’s bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch.

5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.

6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel: I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.

8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father’s children shall bow down before thee.

9 Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?

10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ######’s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

13 Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon.

14 Issachar is a strong ###### couching down between two burdens:

15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant; and bowed his shoulder to bear, and became a servant unto tribute.

16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

19 Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last.

20 Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties.

21 Naphtali is a hind let loose: he giveth goodly words.

22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches drun over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

It shows some sin among them...but more than this...the suffering isn't always about sin...sometimes it is a preparation for a future event.

Don't get caught in the trap of seeing only one tree, instead of the forest amid a large canyon, close to the edge of the ocean. There is a big picture that works upon principles of bringing all of the children of God to him....some now, some later, some suffer, others don't, but all for the good of the eternal plan of salvation and experience for progress.

[elinz]

Here's that Scientific American Article about Addiction:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa...78A83414B7F0101

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

The eternal principle was a warning and punishment carried out.

So in other words, Hebrews were aloud to enslave non-Hebrews, because they were pagans (application of the principle)...and the eternal principle in question was obedience to Yahweh. Did the pagans have much knowledge of Yahweh? Did they have prophets to tell them about Him? Did they ever stand a chance of observing the eternal principle of obedience to Yahweh?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Application-changes

Principle-never!

What was the eternal principle behind staying away from menstruating women?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 17 2004, 01:48 PM

Here's that Scientific American Article about Addiction:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa...78A83414B7F0101

That's ok, I believe you. I understand addiction, and I think it might be a perfectly reasonable explanation for homosexuality.

I still am wondering about NT or LDS scriptures that prohibit this behavior.

I guess your saying that no scripture is needed, because addiction is a sin.

Fair enough.

That means that my Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is also a sin. Good thing sins are forgiven, eh?

[elinz]

Well, if you're Catholic all it takes is a confession.

But if you're LDS you're expected to do it the

hard way and actually change your ways.

So I guess being Catholic is like being a heroin

addict that chooses to stay on a methadone

program rather than quitting...

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

So if there is no scripure support for anti-homosexual views beyond the Old Testament...and if homosexuality is truly an ADDICTION...then I guess the LDS might consider it a Word of Wisdom issue

[elinz]

Absolutely!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I looked through the Word of Wisdom and it didn't mention addiction specifically.

But I did find this information on another website...

WARNING: THIS IS A JOKE

I am quoting the website's author in green text.

By the way, the exact quote from Romans 9:13 is, "And the Lord descendeth upon the fags, and said, 'thou art a bunch of queens, and I hate thee.' And then he struck them with a stick of 2 cubits of length."

So they took a couple of liberties with the translation...

I guess that settles it.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Obviously the author of that website was making fun of the freak with the sign by making up a scripture.

And that was funny.

What is even funnier?

Here is the real Romans 9:13:

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

I guess that freak with the sign better re-read his bible

[elinz]

I've never met the angry gay hater before.

Since I lived in San Francisco and grew up in California

(third generation) the gay lifestyle is as dominant there

as the LDS church is on Utah.

So I've never experienced anti-gay people.

How do you know so much?

Or are you simply being "theoretical" in your ideas?

Is all the gay bashing as real as the gay media likes

to portray it?

What if it's not really that bad?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 17 2004, 04:30 PM

How do you know so much?

Or are you simply being "theoretical" in your ideas?

Is all the gay bashing as real as the gay media likes

to portray it?

What if it's not really that bad?  

I didn't claim to know anything. I said I don't have an opinion on this stuff. I believe in equal rights for homosexuals (including non-religious marriages)...but aside from that I don't care much.

I was just wondering if Christians were telling the truth when they said that the Bible condemned homosexuals. All I found so far was some Old Testament stuff.

And my last 2 posts were just for fun.

A bit of humor.

I promise you I don't have an agenda here. I am just bored.

Is all the gay bashing as real as the gay media likes

to portray it?

What if it's not really that bad?

I don't know if it is that bad. Maybe the violence part is exaggerated?

I can say that I know alot of homophobes who get ANGRY when they see gay people...even if they are just seeing a gay character on TV (like on Will and Grace).

They get genuinely angry. Take that for what it is worth.

But this is Utah...I think the redneck factor is higher here than in San Francisco