Cherubim, Intelligences, & the Sacrament

[Hemidakota]

I will need to make this statement since I failed to add it at least one thread... :)

CLAUSE: PROGRESSION PRINCIPLE: this principle is not taught currently in any church publication and not consider church doctrinal unless the main body of the church agrees to it and directed by the prophet of the church.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Well that is great because it's taught in the scriptures...

[deseretgov]

If you are referring my correction, it was referring in correcting the Seven Archangel names. Even Joseph Smith is seen by John as an angel in the Book of Revelation [where it is mentioned of the one who foot rested on both continents and declare the gospel to the world].

I'm not sure. What I was saying is that couldn't one of the Archangels be an ancient prophet from a civilization that we have yet to recieve a record of. For example. If we didn't have the Book of Mormon we would have no clue if Moroni was an Archangel. Perhaps there was another ancient civilization that had a great prophet who was one of the Archangels. But we don't have their record yet so we don't know about them. So how can we have a conclusive list of Archangels if we don't have all of the information yet.

[Hemidakota]

No....we have Chief Captains and various levels of angels below that. Moroni was not an Archangel [not trying to be disrespectful to such a great brother]. Archangels in this case, as Joseph Smith witnessed for himself, are dispensational prophets. Even he was given the opportunity to see his past assignment [pre-mortal state].

Now, if you feel I am wrong, you have the list, ask the Godhead for a confirmation on what is provided.

[deseretgov]

Yeah.. I must have missed something. I was refering to the images we were supposed to download and review. It shows sevenm Archangels one of which was Moroni. I was refering to this. But I must have missed part of the conversation.

[TheAngelPalmoni]

actually I can Prove Moroni is an Arch Angel, The Fifth Seal angel in fact.

The Angels

[TheAngelPalmoni]

seriously go through the scriptures!! They all connect!

[Hemidakota]

White Horsemen = everyone says it is Enoch.

According to Professor Draper, the second horse "The second millennium saw the advent of organized warfare with the objective of genocide. Clearly, the red horse galloped supreme.

The horse's rider received the curved bladed saber (Greek, machaira), the favorite weapon of the cavalry. Like the color red, it symbolized violent death coupled with all the fury of war (cf. Rom. 8:35; Gen. 31:26). But it also carried the idea of authority to punish evildoing (see Rom. 13:4). Therefore, there is a sense of judgment about it. As Mormon said, "The judgments of God will overtake the wicked; and it is by the wicked that the wicked are punished; for it is the wicked that stir up the hearts of the children of men unto bloodshed" (Morm. 4:5). John states that the horseman was given power "to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another" (6:4, KJV). The phrase "kill one another" (Greek, allloussphaxousin) indicates both international and civil strife.

The rider could easily be the devil, reigning supreme during this period of gross wickedness. So great were the abominations that Noah was pained and God judged the nations with the Flood. But Satan's rule was more apparent than real. Note how John again uses the passive voice. The rider possessed neither the sword nor the power. They were given to him. War, strife, bloodshed must come, but God overrules even here, setting bounds on who carries the sword, how hard it is swung, and how long."

Third Horsemen: is unknown. Professor Draper made some remarks concerning this horse.

With the command "Come and see" (v. 7), the last of the horses lunges into view. Its color is a sickly pale green (Greek,chlros). Not inappropriately, the rider is death himself riding roughshod between 1,000 b.c. and the period of the Lord's birth. And he rides not alone—Hell follows with him. Surely no period before this saw more vicious generals and armies. It was the time when some of the world's greatest empires rose and fell: Babylon, Assyria, Persia, and Macedonia among them. As armies marched, men died in droves, and Hell gaped open wide its jaws to receive them.

Caught up in all this strife were the people of Jehovah. Palestine was often a hotly contested area. Pulled by the forces of the day, its political leaders tried to play power politics to their shame and destruction. The great prophets, Hosea, Amos, Isaiah, and later Jeremiah and Lehi, tried to warn them of their folly. They would not heed. Too caught up in idolatry to repent, too licentious to reform, too hard-hearted to feel, they warred among themselves and weakened their nation. As a consequence, they left Jehovah and life eternal. Hell was truly their reward.

The power of Death and Hell, symbolized in the great barbarian broadsword (rhomphia), exacted its due. The sphere of operation of these two horsemen was a fourth part of the earth. John's use of the fraction suggests a limited sphere. Not all the earth was under their domain. Their means of destruction was fourfold: war, famine, pestilence, and the wild beasts of the earth. The fourfold means of destruction corresponds to the four sore judgments found in Ezekiel 5:16-17; 14:21. 18 The latter suggests the general conditions of the era. So many were destroyed that whole areas became depopulated to the point where wild beasts ran free. Few were left to protect the weak or ill.

With these horsemen John continues his underlying theme. Note that Death and Hell possess no power of their own. It is given to them. Their area of operation was limited. Only a fourth part of the earth, a determined amount, was subject to them. Most of the earth lay outside their domain. The rest came under the protection of another—the one John keeps hidden. And even that portion over which they held sway was not given up totally to them: their fearsome weapon being given to them by he who directs all things.

Note how both death and destruction have been escalating through the course of the revelation. After Righteousness, War rode affecting the nations, primarily the soldiers and men of war. Famine followed bringing distress upon whole populations. Next came Death and Hell, which affected a fourth part of the earth. This pattern of ever-greater circles of destruction continues through the rest of the vision: trumpets bring destruction upon one-third of the earth (see 8:7-8, 10, 12), and the vials bring total annihilation to all wickedness (16:1-17).

Fourth Horsemen: who is called death.

He went to say that John uses horses and their riders to symbolize the events of the first four thousand years. The symbolism is found in the Old Testament. In Revelation it is modified for a purpose, but it definitely echoes the two visions of Zechariah, one of four horsemen, the other of four chariots (see 1:8-11; 6:1-8). However, in Zechariah's vision both sets were but patrol squads whose purpose was to report on the peaceful condition upon the earth. Like John's, the horses Zechariah saw were of different colors, but they corresponded to the different winds or points of the compass. In Revelation the four colors indicate a significant aspect of each millennium: conquest (white), bloodshed and war (red), plague and famine (black), and death (pale or livid).

Whether or not they are related to the four angels who are assigned as gathers and destroyers over the earth, is unclear. See chapter 6, 7, 14

Edited May 30, 2009 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

actually I can Prove Moroni is an Arch Angel, The Fifth Seal angel in fact.

The Angels

I would place Moroni in chapter 14...as also another notable BYU professor.

6. And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

7. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8. And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10. The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Having shown the nature of the latter-day church, the vision dramatically switches scenes. John sees an angel in the midst of heaven "having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth" (v. 6, KJV). Modern revelation bears directly on the interpretation of this verse. To the world the Lord has declared:

I have sent forth mine angel flying through the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel, who hath appeared unto some and hath committed it unto man, who shall appear unto many that dwell on the earth. And this gospel shall be preached unto every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. And the servants of God shall go forth, saying with a loud voice: Fear God and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come; and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters (D&C 133:36-39).

On one hand, the angel apparently symbolizes Moroni and those events connected with the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. The Lord states that he sent Moroni "to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the stick of Ephraim" (D&C 27:5). On the other hand, the angel seems to represent the Church members serving in their callings as missionaries who will take the teachings of that book and a warning message to all the nations of the earth. Of this period the Lord has said:

Through their administration the word may go forth unto the ends of the earth, unto the Gentiles first, and then, behold, and lo, they shall turn unto the Jews. And then cometh the day when the arm of the Lord shall be revealed in power in convincing the nations, the heathen nations, the house of Joseph, of the gospel of their salvation. For it shall come to pass in that day, that every man shall hear the fulness of the gospel in his own tongue, and in his own language, through those who are ordained unto this power, by the administration of the Comforter, shed forth upon them for the revelation of Jesus Christ (D&C 90:9-11).