Hemidakota Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 Yes, but it is not because the atonement can't redeem him, it is because he rejects the power offered through the atonement.As I struggled to understand the logic to this statement, let me rephrase it this way: what is the purpose of the Atonement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) I think the general idea is that it is much more possible and likely that it would happen to a GA. As you said, the average Joe never ascends the heights of testimony required for such dominant rebellion. I know it's possible for the average Joe, but very remotely unlikely.The key to even one such as this committing the unpardonable sin is that he refuses to repent.We have examples of those who have had such enlightenment, fell away, and then repented from such rebellion in the ancient and modern churches. We also have examples of those who did not repent.I really appreciate the warning issued to not deny the Holy Ghost, and we shouldn't take it lightly. All I'm saying is that if you sincerely repent, God will forgive you because He promised He would.So, again, to all, the cry is to come unto Christ with full purpose of heart, repent, and be saved. No matter what a person has done, repentance is the answer. Sometimes people rebel to the point they are past repentance, not because the atonement has limits, but because they reject the offering.You answered it - "THE ATONEMENT HAS LIMITS". Yes! The Lord stated in the D&C they must suffer it for themselves. A person with a calling made sure when in this mortal life fails to complete the repentance process will remain in that state until full repentance process is complete and will be the last to be resurrected. Even though, he/she still has that sealing made, this will occur as the last humans to be resurrected. Also, the first statement "I think the general idea is that it is much more possible and likely that it would happen to a GA.", not the case. It can happen to any member of the church and most likely, happen on a grander scale than a general authority. Edited May 21, 2009 by Hemidakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 As I struggled to understand the logic to this statement, let me rephrase it this way: what is the purpose of the Atonement?I really didn't think you would have a hard time with this. or that I would have a hard time trying to explain it.The atonement is only given to those who repent. To those who don't repent, it will be as if there was no atonement (like you just said).The difference is repentance, not what one has or has not done.So, if one sincerely repents, their sins (whatever they may be) will be washed clean by His blood.I guess what I'm saying is that part of committing the unpardonable sin must be that they don't or won't repent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Also, the first statement "I think the general idea is that it is much more possible and likely that it would happen to a GA.", not the case. It can happen to any member of the church and most likely, happen on a grander scale than a general authority.My point is that if a certain knowledge is required in order to commit this unpardonable sin, then it is most likely most members will never reach that point. So, if they don't reach that point, how can they commit an unpardonable sin?On the other hand, I believe many GAs do reach that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorBob Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is one, if not the most plainly stated sin in the Bible, on how to commit it. It is to attribute beneficial thaumaturgical power to Satan, to reject knowledge because it does not pander to one's prejudices. It is to see a miracle, a real miracle, one which does something beneficial, and then turn around and attribute it to Satan because it has shattered a delusion in which one is living.The penalty for committing it, is to be cast into outer darkness, or the delusion which is away from the Truth, as opposed to the Truth or light, and have to work their way out of it without any help, as they have rejected whatever help they had available. The true implication of it will only become apparent once the body has been dropped, and the dual-brain is no longer available for thought, and the singular brain of the soul cannot rid itself of the rubbish which it was carrying, and in the attempt to rip it away (now taking the form of a demon or possession), it rips itself, begins to hurt itself uncontrollably and drifts into screaming oblivion. Not to say that they will remain on earth as long as the body does. A body can continue to exist and work using its anima or pattern created by its former inhabitant for some time, often indicated through extreme mood swings caused by the use of the body by whatever is hanging around, psychologically vampiric, abusive behaviour, etc.To get rid of the rubbish which has become a part of oneself, a new dual-brain is required in which the person will not have the choice of going back and working out the delusion in which they were living, after having gone through incalculable agony. The final delusion is of being, something, or someone, as opposed to the One life in Jesus Christ, which appears to be nothing from without.John 18:20 "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue (among the prejudiced), and in the temple (among the open), whither the Jews always resort; and in secret (parables) have I said nothing (Ain)." Also note The Tenth Aethyr wherein the chief demon brags he is the maker of form. Thus we are to deny ourselves as or Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ commanded, if we are to follow him.Matthew 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 My point is that if a certain knowledge is required in order to commit this unpardonable sin, then it is most likely most members will never reach that point. So, if they don't reach that point, how can they commit an unpardonable sin?On the other hand, I believe many GAs do reach that point.Numbers brothers...numbers - looking at it from a math model. There are more members who have than GAs combined. It is misconception to believe it otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I really didn't think you would have a hard time with this. or that I would have a hard time trying to explain it.The atonement is only given to those who repent. To those who don't repent, it will be as if there was no atonement (like you just said).The difference is repentance, not what one has or has not done.So, if one sincerely repents, their sins (whatever they may be) will be washed clean by His blood.I guess what I'm saying is that part of committing the unpardonable sin must be that they don't or won't repent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is one, if not the most plainly stated sin in the Bible, on how to commit it. It is to attribute beneficial thaumaturgical power to Satan, to reject knowledge because it does not pander to one's prejudices. It is to see a miracle, a real miracle, one which does something beneficial, and then turn around and attribute it to Satan because it has shattered a delusion in which one is living.The penalty for committing it, is to be cast into outer darkness, or the delusion which is away from the Truth, as opposed to the Truth or light, and have to work their way out of it without any help, as they have rejected whatever help they had available. The true implication of it will only become apparent once the body has been dropped, and the dual-brain is no longer available for thought, and the singular brain of the soul cannot rid itself of the rubbish which it was carrying, and in the attempt to rip it away (now taking the form of a demon or possession), it rips itself, begins to hurt itself uncontrollably and drifts into screaming oblivion. Not to say that they will remain on earth as long as the body does. A body can continue to exist and work using its anima or pattern created by its former inhabitant for some time, often indicated through extreme mood swings caused by the use of the body by whatever is hanging around, psychologically vampiric, abusive behaviour, etc.To get rid of the rubbish which has become a part of oneself, a new dual-brain is required in which the person will not have the choice of going back and working out the delusion in which they were living, after having gone through incalculable agony. The final delusion is of being, something, or someone, as opposed to the One life in Jesus Christ, which appears to be nothing from without.John 18:20 "Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue (among the prejudiced), and in the temple (among the open), whither the Jews always resort; and in secret (parables) have I said nothing (Ain)." Also note The Tenth Aethyr wherein the chief demon brags he is the maker of form. Thus we are to deny ourselves as or Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ commanded, if we are to follow him.Matthew 12:22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.To reach level, he or she is Satan. They will have a greater power than what Lucifer could obtain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorBob Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 To reach level, he or she is Satan. They will have a greater power than what Lucifer could obtain.Lucifer's only power is to blind people with endless variations of false teachings. Thus "bearer of the light.""Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" -Albert Pike, morals and dogmaThe four demon princes of the world, lucifer, leviathan, satan, and belial each have a different method of turning man away from Truth. Lucifer brings blind faith, satan brings materialism, leviathan brings lust, and belial brings superstitious practices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 LDS doctrine reveals that the term Satan means the father of all lies. Even Cain was Satan and ruled over Lucifer since he had the priesthood and a mortal body. But, it is interesting to see more demonic names Bob...where did you get those names? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faded Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) I like the insights from the Gnostic Christian perspective, but for the benefit of the Original Poster, you should probably state that what you have shared is the Gnostic Christian perspective, so it doesn't confuse people letting them assume it is LDS teachings. What are the sources for: "The four demon princes of the world, lucifer, leviathan, satan, and belial ..." Our theology counts Belial, Satan and Lucifer all as one and the same person. Leviathan is never mentioned. I'd be interesting in reading up on this. I'm always intensely curious about all things religion.It's interesting to theorize about the fallen, but the underlying question is "how does one commit the unforgivable sin." That is complex. We have two 100% certain examples and 1 that is mostly certain (according to LDS theology). Cain committed the unforgivable sin. We just don't have any of the details of his life to know how he was capable of doing so. Judas Iscariot probably committed the unforgivable sin as well, but there is some debate on the matter. He knew Christ personally and had an undeniable knowledge of who Jesus of Nazareth really was. He betrayed that knowledge and helped to murder his Lord and God. His apparent guilt over the matter is the only reason anyone debates whether he truly committed the unforgivable sin. Lucifer was high in the councils of God and one of the great ones. He rebelled against God directly, in the face of undeniable light and knowledge. He fell and became Satan. To truly commit the unforgivable sin is to become exactly the same as he is. And what do we know about Satan, the father of lies? 2 Nephi 2:27 27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and call things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.Lucifer or Satan is a miserable being. He is more miserable and unhappy than anyone can imagine. His greatest delight is to make others as miserable and unhappy as possible.Moses 7:36 26 And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced.This is referring to the Earth immediately prior to the flood. Satan had driven the remaining inhabitants of the Earth so far into wickedness that God was left with no choice but to wipe them out and start over. And Satan and his angels laughed at this. He delighted in what he had accomplished -- all those deaths and all of them damned. All of them eternally miserable, just like him. The truly and completely fallen, those who have committed the unforgivable sin, are unfathomable monsters. They know fully well what they are doing, yet they love doing it. Every evil under the Sun is a delight to them. They are devious. They will tell a hundred truths to get you to accept one lie. They seek to destroy everything that God builds. They're generally not going to endanger their own lives by openly acting out what they are inside, but they have absolutely no value for their own existence. They hate themselves and they hate everything. Their only joy is to destroy the works of God and seek the damnation and misery of as many souls as possible. Satan so utterly changed himself in his fall that he became a person/being incapable of repentance. It is completely against his very nature to repent and be reconciled to God. The same is true of the Sons of Perdition. Edited May 22, 2009 by Faded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 It seems Leviathan has something to do with dominion over water. I need to study it again, it's been too long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAngelPalmoni Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 You can only Deny the Holy Ghost after you have received the Fulness. The Fulness of the Holy Ghost is Calling and Election. So to deny the Holy Ghost is a bit more serious than you think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAngelPalmoni Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would agree that Satan has set up an equal and opposite Kingdom in every-way... opposite to Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 You can only Deny the Holy Ghost after you have received the Fulness. The Fulness of the Holy Ghost is Calling and Election. So to deny the Holy Ghost is a bit more serious than you think...Only those who experience this can relate the penalty to its fullness. Even by not completing a repentance process becomes a harsh process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 It seems Leviathan has something to do with dominion over water. I need to study it again, it's been too long.TheAngelPalomi pointed this out in a past thread with the 4-angels or ministering spirits to there tasking and state of control. One of them does have control over the waters. Knowing the principle of honor, only a man who holds the priesthood in righteousness can control natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 You can only Deny the Holy Ghost after you have received the Fulness. The Fulness of the Holy Ghost is Calling and Election. So to deny the Holy Ghost is a bit more serious than you think...I realize the seriousness of it, but I also realize that most average members will not have their calling and election made sure. That's the basis of my point, as well as many GAs will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorBob Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would agree that Satan has set up an equal and opposite Kingdom in every-way... opposite to Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel.Precisely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAngelPalmoni Posted May 23, 2009 Report Share Posted May 23, 2009 Precisely!How much further can you take this? Do you know the organization? It might help to know all of the research I have done of the side of good in reguarding the organization of the Kingdom...The Angels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorBob Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 How much further can you take this? Do you know the organization? It might help to know all of the research I have done of the side of good in reguarding the organization of the Kingdom...The AngelsSacred Magic of Abramelin the MageAlso, go get the book "The second coming of Christ" by Paramahansa Yogananda for a detailed insight into Satan's mind, how and why he tempts, why he fell, how he fell, what attracts him, what repels him, etc through Yogananda's direct perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorBob Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 Some other things which may interest you in regards to demonology are memes aka "egregores." Or mental genes if you will. They work very similarly, on the mental level anyway, as discarnate spirits.Memes are sort of like a memory which can be "made alive" to make a person into a doppelganger of say, a deceased person, to continue their plans or acquire their expertise in something like business, ritual, painting, or nearly anything else (study up on the memory grove behind the Salt Lake City capitol building). They are usually downloaded through behavioural adaption to match a particular personality which is glamorized or constantly referred to, or otherwise brought to be pondered on until the transmission occurs, then they begin to emulate the dead person, who otherwise would only be a memory (on the physical plane). The basic purpose of a meme is to override the reason, download new objectives and thus modify the behaviour to fulfill the plan of the person who creates the meme.Meme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaIf you can find them, the documents written by the Japanese during the purges, when they would meditatively behead Christians, on how they felt something had moved from the person to themselves when they chopped their head off, is of note. The pattern created and maintained in the old body would find new life as a memory in the mind of the samurai, and would be transmitted down through the ages, growing and evolving then shaping the culture. "M05. Example of a Meme. The 10 Commandments.To some people, the 10 commandments are a good basis for morality, to be amended as necessity dictates. Thus it is not a meme. It is the word of God to some people and must never be violated. Thus due to religious brainwashing it is a meme. As the 10 Commandments are politically correct, they must be a meme. Ideally for a meme to work, it must be in the subconscious and hidden from conscious thought. While the 10 commandments are not the best example, they are the best example that everyone knows. On second thoughts, as they are known to 3 billion people, it may be a better meme than we credit. The structure is as follows:- * MASTER or OWNER. Jehovah. * IDENTITY. The Ten Commandments. * CONTROL and PROGRAMMING. 1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other God before me. 2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any craven image. 3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain. 4. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. 5. Honour thy father and thy mother. 6. Thou shalt not kill. 7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8. Thou shalt not steal. 9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 10. Thou shalt not covet. * ADVERTISING and DISTRIBUTION. You had better spread the word in case your neighbour is not so inhibited. Be on the glamorous winning side of self righteousness.. * DEFENCE and RETRIBUTION. The vengeance of Jehovah. The Guilt from Sin. * SLAVES. Every Jew, Christian and Moslem. * * PAIN. Add in the mechanics of brain washing as appropriate to the situation. When a meme is completely hidden from conscious thought, then any violation leads to the guilt of sin. The victim does not know what he has violated, which confuses him no end. Priests make money by giving the wrong answers. They do not know the right answers themselves. As most of orthodox religion is based on memes, it is little wonder that there is an abundance of original sin. The 11th Commandment (Thou shalt not be found out) is crucial for the survival of memes.NB. There are as many versions of the 10 commandments as there are translators and writers. There is also doubt as to the exact number.Viking Remote Viewing and Psychic Self-Defence.© Edmund Meadows, as part of the Viking Spiritual Remote Viewing (first Internet edition), ISBN No 0 9524450 50, July 2001.© Edmund Meadows, as part of the Viking Remote Viewing (Eighth Internet edition), ISBN No 0 9524450 42, February 2001. "M05. Example of a Meme. The 10 Commandments.Matthew 18: 20 King James BibleFor where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.Note that the bible calls it the "Holy Ghost" and that it descended after Jesus ascended.Here's an informative article written by a good friend of mine who passed away last year. What is an Egregore? by Theron Dunn, 32° Freemason Before starting, the author would like to express thanks to Wr. Giovanni Lombardo for his assistance in defining and bringing this article to the readers. If you have never heard of the term “egregore”, join the crowd. Many people have never heard the word, and until recently, that crowd INCLUDED the author. A year ago, while on The Lodgeroom US, a fervent antimasonic… person, named Thomas “Skip” Sampson, tossed out an unsupported and off topic slander to the effect that we masons should go back to working on evoking our egregore in lodge. At the time, the author was stunned, never before having heard the word. A quick internet search revealed nothing, and not having any information on the subject, a research project was born, and thence this paper. At the time, very little was available, though that has changed recently. One of the problems is that egregore is spelled two different ways, with a “E” at the end, and without. This made is difficult at first to find information. So, what is an egregore, and how does it relate to freemasonry? Let start with a simple explanation of what an egregore is, or is reputed to be, and then move on from there. On this subject, there are various opinions, especially among “occultists” who seem to be the primary authors on the nature of the egregore. Following are the four primary occultist definitions: An energized astral form produced consciously or unconsciously by human agency. In particular, (a) a strongly characterized form, usually an archetypal image, produced by the imaginative and emotional energies of a religious or magical group collectively, or (b) an astral shape of any kind, deliberately formulated by a magician to carry a specific force.[1] …from a Greek word meaning “watcher.” A thought-form created by will and visualization. A group egregore is the distinctive energy of a specific group of magicians who are working together, creating and building the same thought-form or energy-form.[2] Any symbolic pattern that has served as a focus for human emotion and energy will build up an egregore of its own over time, and the more energy that is put into such a pattern, the more potent the egregore that will form around it. The gods and goddesses of every religion, past and present, are at the centers of vast egregore charged with specific kinds of power. This power is defined by, and contacted through, the traditional symbolism of the deity in question.[3] An egregore is an angel, sometimes called watcher; in Hebrew the word is ir, and the concept appears in The Book of Enoch.... Thus, Irim, the city of the Nephilim is again linked with the Book of Enoch, since the Nephilim, according to that Book, were the sons of the Irim (the egregores.)....Although the Irim, the egregores, are angels on both sides of the camp - fallen angels as well as faithful ones.[4] René Guénon, a prolific writer on Masonic philosophy offers the following: First of all, we must point out that we have never used the word ‘egregore’ to designate what could properly be called a ‘collective entity’; the reason for this is that the term is wholly untraditional and only represents one of the fantasies of modern occultist language. The first person to use it (egregore) this way was Eliphas Levy, and if our memory is exact, it was he who, to justify this meaning gave it the improbable Latin etymology, deriving it from grex, ‘flock’, whereas the word is purely Greek and has never signified anything more than watcher.[5] It appears therefore that, according to Guénon that an egregore is a manifestation of psychic energy, as opposed to a spiritual force as the occultists would define it. Now that the author has completely confused you, let us proceed to dissect what we have as “definitions” to see if we can come to an understanding of the egregore, and its “place” in freemasonry. Of the definitions offered, that of Guénon seems to be the one that actually relates to masonry, while the others relate to religious/occult faith. The egregore is a psychic entity, existing between the material and the spiritual, in contact with both. It is the creation of the psychic will of the members of a group, and exists as a connection to the divine. As we work rituals, the focused mental energy creates and invokes the egregore to fulfill the need of the group. An egregore is not a magical creature, it is not self aware, and is not a Djin, to carry out wishes. The egregore serves as a conduit, a nexus, to connect the group that created/invoked it to the spiritual. Some egregores are temporary, while some, like the egregore of a lodge, a church, or a country, are the result of the continuous will that creates them, and this will also sustains them. The egregore of freemasonry has existed for centuries, and is the result of the focused will to connect with the spiritual from millions of men. An egregore is the psychic “entity”. All members of a group, whether it is a club, your family, your lodge, a faith, a political party, a country, or even a single person, are united with the egregore of that group through a psychic connection. As a result, and given the nature of society, we are often included in the sphere of several egregores at once. The strength and ability of the egregore to aid and assist the members of the group grows over time and through numbers, by drawing support from the members constituting it and through their repeated actions maintain its power. The egregore, in turn, invokes the immaterial and raises us from the material, connecting us to the subtle worlds. Where the intent is positive and spiritual, the effect of the egregore consists in conveying spirituality to the members as in the initiatic process of the lodge. The intent is to divest the candidate of the profane and connect him to the spiritual, and for most masons, that effect is felt and received most profoundly. To the contrary, in the case of other groups, especially the counter-initiatic ones – which adopt rites and symbols to attain profane or negative goals – the egregore can be quite destructive to the lives and spirits of those members.[6] Each individual who is involved in a group is influenced by these egregores. For those that reach for a spiritual connection, the egregore assists and facilitates that connection. This process is unconscious, but is intensified through the initiatic process, which is designed to open the mind to the spiritual through the egregore. A symbolic representation of this may be had in the examination of the Star of David, an emblem of the divine. The top triangle points the heavens, and to the spirit. The bottom triangle points down, to the material and profane. United, they form a new entity, the six-pointed star that represents the unity of the two, from material to the spirit, connection to the divine. An example of this we are familiar with in Freemasonry is the Compasses and Square. The compass represents the male, the spiritual energy, while the square represents the material. The compasses enclose and define the spiritual, as in the point within a circle, while the square defines the mortal, the material world. United, these two symbols, like the triangles, which form the Star of David, an emblem the represents the divine, so, too, does the square and compasses united, represent the divine, as is shown by the letter G in the middle. So, the nature of the egregore has been known since time immemorial, as shown above. Its function is that of a guide, and intercessory, to conduct the group members to the spirit and connect them with it. Some groups are connected more powerfully from the profane and mortal side to the spiritual than others, some less so, but to each group according to its intent. As with all things, it is the intent that matters, not the form. Guénon goes on to state, in reference to the egregore’s influence: Man has, however, to point out that the Egregore “can never transcend the individual domain since, in the final analysis, it is only a resultant of the component individualities, nor, consequently, can it go beyond the psychic order; now all that is, only psychic can have no effective and direct relationship with initiation since this latter consists essentially in the transmission of a spiritual influence meant to produce effects of a similar spiritual order, thus transcendent with respect to the individuality, whence one obviously must conclude that whatever is able to render effective the initially virtual action of this influence, must itself necessarily have a supra-individual and thus, if one may put it so, a supra-collective character.”[7] In a lodge of freemasons, the egregore is strengthened by time and experience, and the will and intention of good men. The strength of the egregore is patent in the effect the ritual has on the candidate, and effect that cannot be accounted for simply in the execution of the ritual itself. We have all experienced the thrill, the exhilaration of the initiation, and the emotional high that carries us for days afterward as the flame is kindled in our breast. This is the spirit the egregore connects us with that fills us and carries us. It is this spirit that breathes in us, inspires us with brotherly love, relief, truth and charity. The spirit is from the divine. The egregore is the psychic link between the mortal to the spirit. The mason is inspired by the breath of the spirit. And thus: freemasonry. Theron Dunn [1957-2008] Theron Dunn [1957-2008] References 1 Planetary Magick, Denning & Phillips, (Llewellyn Publications) 2 Golden Dawn Glossary http://www. thelemicgnosticism. org/aa/contacts. htm 3 John Michael Greer, from: Inside a Magical Lodge 4 Egregore by L.S. Bernstein, http://www. crcsite. org/egregor. htm 5 Spiritual Influences and Egregores by René Guénon, in Initiation and Spiritual Realization, Sophia Perennis, Hillsdale, N. Y. p37, paragraph 2 6 So it was in some Nazi esoteric groups, such as Thule or Vril. Also http://www. harare. unesco. org/hivaids/webfiles/Electronic%20Versions/malawi%20lifeskil ls. doc 7 Spiritual Influences and Egregores by René Guénon, in Initiation and Spiritual Realization, Sophia Perennis, Hillsdale, N. Y. p119 May the blessings of heaven rest upon us and all regular Masons, may brotherly love prevail, and every moral and social virtue, cement us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAngelPalmoni Posted May 25, 2009 Report Share Posted May 25, 2009 Wow Turbo, that is way out there even for me... But interesting hahaha. It's just good to know that I'm striving to make my Calling and Election sure, not my Calling and Damnation... Angel Palmoni web.me.com/angelpalmoni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastorBob Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Wow Turbo, that is way out there even for me... But interesting hahaha. It's just good to know that I'm striving to make my Calling and Election sure, not my Calling and Damnation...Angel Palmoniweb.me.com/angelpalmoniWell... take everything with a grain of salt. But if you want to understand the devil you'll need to understand meme technology. It's a very well developed science in some circles."Only a few shall find freedom from the cage and the rest shall live life within its fetters until their spirit separates from their matter after their death. Ego is the fantastical cage which is built like a leaky boat which one must keep plugging up to keep the waters of guilt and conscience from entering. Ego believes it must be Grand to avoid the sting of conscience when it does not do as conscience asks. Self-love only requires that one be themselves. It needs not the currents of conscience to float its ship. You must research this greatly, for no words can do it justice.A priest was giving a lecture about demons... a zen master spoke up that he had never seen a demon. The priest replied, "You are blind to them.""Nay." replied the master. I have seen the crafty hands that create them. It is more important to see the river than the fog it creates." What are these demons? They are the artifacts of a poisoned mind. A mind poisoned in its youth with conscience and guilt for having shown a promise of power. As this coward of a man could not attack the child physically he attacked him with his mind, turning it against him as conscience and guilt to limit his actions. For what do these demons tell you? They tell you what is right and wrong for you, what is dangerous for you to do. They are blockages placed upon a person to limit their actions in favor of another.One who perceives any other as being lesser than oneself is a sign most certain of this poisoned mind. And whoso carries this mind to the grave shall surely become this being which he feared most..."To be continued.-Excerpts from the forbidden scriptures of the dark order of the samurai, volume on demons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAngelPalmoni Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I realize the seriousness of it, but I also realize that most average members will not have their calling and election made sure. That's the basis of my point, as well as many GAs will.Many more People will have their Calling and Elections soon because of what is coming. The opposition is going to gather...And for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemidakota Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 It's just good to know that I'm striving to make my Calling and Election sure, not my Calling and Damnation...Angel Palmoniweb.me.com/angelpalmoniI was looking for the laugh button but it seems there isn't one here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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