A Poll For Faithful LDS: Testimonies

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Boyd Packer recently said at Conference that you should not be disappointed if you did not recieve a powerful witness of the BoM.

In his view, having a "good feeling" when reading it or praying about it was good enough to be considered a testimony. What form did your witness take?

I discussed this in more detail on another thread called "need a little help".

My answer: I have not answered in this poll, because I am not a faithful LDS. Although I did have some good feelings while reading certain parts of the BoM (and Bible...and the Tao Te Ching...and Jack Kerouac), I do not consider it a testimony of the BoM.

Please only answer if you are a believing LDS.

[Jenda]

I guess that counts me out, too.

[john doe]

I've had numerous experiences, but I don't feel compelled to share them here at this time.

And why don't you want Jenda to respond? Just because she isn't LDS does not make her an unbeliever of the BoM. I think she should be allowed to respond if she has a testimony of it.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by Jenda@Apr 13 2005, 10:08 PM

I guess that counts me out, too. 

Don't feel bad Jenda. We all have to stand back one place or another.

My answer to the truthfulness of the BofM ~ first time was on my mission. I had to read it in the language of my mission and as I struggled for the first couple of weeks, I was given the language to teach. I was speaking the language so well so quickly, and having passages found in the BofM come to my mind in times of need, that I knew it was a gift.

I have to just give you all a question: If you are given special gifts to teach about the Book of Mormon, wouldn't you consider it true? Why would the Lord give special gifts like this, to teach false works?

This was not my only time of receiving a powerful spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. I get a special witness every time I read in it.

And for those who would suggest it was Satan ~ LOL I know the difference between Satan and the Lord.

[Jason]

And for those who would suggest it was Satan ~ LOL I know the difference between Satan and the Lord

From your description of events, I'd say you still don't know the difference. Joseph smith didn't either.

And I too had words come to my mind that I didn't know before I spoke them. However, the devil is cunning, and can and will do whatever it takes to keep is in a delusion.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 13 2005, 11:36 PM

And for those who would suggest it was Satan ~ LOL I know the difference between Satan and the Lord

From your description of events, I'd say you still don't know the difference. Joseph smith didn't either.

And I too had words come to my mind that I didn't know before I spoke them. However, the devil is cunning, and can and will do whatever it takes to keep is in a delusion.

Like you are one everyone should listen to as an authority on JS! LOL

[Jason]

Amillia,

The fact that he never renounced his occultic behavior as a young man, and in fact continued such behavior as a your prophet, should tell you volumes about what kind of "spirits" were speaking to him.

Course, like Thomas Paine once wrote: "...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right..." (Common Sense)

[begood2]

The BoM and the church are true for me. However, I respect other peoples rights to their own beliefs. That is one of the principles that this great nation was founded upon and one that which we should all cherish!

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 12:16 AM

Amillia,

The fact that he never renounced his occultic behavior as a young man, and in fact continued such behavior as a your prophet, should tell you volumes about what kind of "spirits" were speaking to him. 

If we are to listen only to select opinions, we would have to believe there isn't a decent person on the planet. I just don't think your opinion and that of anti mormons are worth the powder to blow them to H....

So go peddle it somewhere else...

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 12:16 AM

Course, like Thomas Paine once wrote: "...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  (Common Sense)

That can be true put this way as well: ...a long habit of thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being wrong....(common sense)

I would add to that: ... especially when it accomadates the sinner.

[Jason]

If we are to listen only to select opinions, we would have to believe there isn't a decent person on the planet. 

You mean differing opinions.

I just don't think your opinion and that of anti mormons are worth the powder to blow them to H....

Sure, after all, there is no need to be objective when you know you are right.

[Jason]

That can be true put this way as well: ...a long habit of thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being wrong....(common sense)

Don't you ever get tired of putting your own little "spin" on other's comments? Haven't you got one original thought in that mind of yours?

I would add to that: ... especially when it accomadates the sinner.

Thus far the only "sin" you've convicted me of was being a free thinker.

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 01:02 AM

That can be true put this way as well: ...a long habit of thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being wrong....(common sense)

Don't you ever get tired of putting your own little "spin" on other's comments? Haven't you got one original thought in that mind of yours?

I would add to that: ... especially when it accomadates the sinner.

Thus far the only "sin" you've convicted me of was being a free thinker.

According to you.

[Jason]

According to you.

Huh? What are you saying here? And are you ever going to respond to the issues I bring up, or just skirt around them accusing disbelievers of sin?

[Amillia]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 01:07 AM

According to you.

Huh? What are you saying here? And are you ever going to respond to the issues I bring up, or just skirt around them accusing disbelievers of sin?

What issues? Your opinions? Everyone has opinions....like rear ends you know?

[Maureen]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 13 2005, 11:16 PM

Amillia,

The fact that he never renounced his occultic behavior as a young man, and in fact continued such behavior as a your prophet, should tell you volumes about what kind of "spirits" were speaking to him.

Course, like Thomas Paine once wrote: "...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right..." (Common Sense)

The practice of Folk Magic in JS's time was quite popular and not seen as evil but as the norm. It was the basic religion of the common folk. The 21st century attitude toward Folk Magic is quite different than how it was viewed in JS's time.

M.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Maureen+Apr 14 2005, 10:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Maureen @ Apr 14 2005, 10:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--ExMormon-Jason@Apr 13 2005, 11:16 PM

Amillia,

The fact that he never renounced his occultic behavior as a young man, and in fact continued such behavior as a your prophet, should tell you volumes about what kind of "spirits" were speaking to him. 

Course, like Thomas Paine once wrote: "...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right..."  (Common Sense)

The practice of Folk Magic in JS's time was quite popular and not seen as evil but as the norm. It was the basic religion of the common folk. The 21st century attitude toward Folk Magic is quite different than how it was viewed in JS's time.

M.

Quite right, Maureen, but lots of people have trouble seeing the 19th century with 19th century eyes. Mostly because they don't want to. It is more convenient to see it with 21st century eyes.

[Jason]

The practice of Folk Magic in JS's time was quite popular and not seen as evil but as the norm. It was the basic religion of the common folk. The 21st century attitude toward Folk Magic is quite different than how it was viewed in JS's time.

There's no doubt in my mind than this was a common practice.

What I think you've failed to realize is that "God" apparently never had a problem with this, nor any of the "spirits" that spoke with Smith.

Therein lies the key about the source of Mormonism, and the "spirits" with whom he communed.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by john doe@Apr 13 2005, 09:49 PM

I've had numerous experiences, but I don't feel compelled to share them here at this time.

And why don't you want Jenda to respond? Just because she isn't LDS does not make her an unbeliever of the BoM. I think she should be allowed to respond if she has a testimony of it.

Sorry, I meant to say believers in the Book of Mormon, not just LDS!

Jenda is free to vote!!! :)

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 11:44 AM

The practice of Folk Magic in JS's time was quite popular and not seen as evil but as the norm. It was the basic religion of the common folk. The 21st century attitude toward Folk Magic is quite different than how it was viewed in JS's time.

There's no doubt in my mind than this was a common practice.

What I think you've failed to realize is that "God" apparently never had a problem with this, nor any of the "spirits" that spoke with Smith.

Therein lies the key about the source of Mormonism, and the "spirits" with whom he communed.

Jason, I don't think its necessarily fair to say JS was speaking with evil spirits.

Personally, I believe he either:

A. Made up the stories about his visits with Angels/God/Jesus, in order to establish a false church, for whatever reasons he might have had (a social experiment for example).

or

B. He had some sort of Shizophrenia which caused him to Hallucinate the whole thing, and he was sincere in setting up the LDS Church...though confused enough to leave behind contradicting doctrines, speeches, etc.

But I do NOT believe evil spirits talked to him...because I don't believe in evil spirits.

[Dale]

Hi,

My testimony of the Book of Mormon is based on study more than a feeling. I had a testimony that involved feeling until I encountered what I thought was proof the book couldn't be trusted. Fortunate the internet put me in contact with resources that helped be overcome my doubts. You can trust your feelings. I tested my feelings via the Barean test.(Acts 17:11)

Sincerely,

Dale

[Jason]

Jason, I don't think its necessarily fair to say JS was speaking with evil spirits.

Personally, I believe he either:

A. Made up the stories about his visits with Angels/God/Jesus, in order to establish a false church, for whatever reasons he might have had (a social experiment for example).

or

B. He had some sort of Shizophrenia which caused him to Hallucinate the whole thing, and he was sincere in setting up the LDS Church...though confused enough to leave behind contradicting doctrines, speeches, etc.

But I do NOT believe evil spirits talked to him...because I don't believe in evil spirits.

Big T,

Of course you don't think it's fair. And before I became a Christian again, I would have agreed with you.

[TannersDad]

I think this an interesting topic and I like others, feel that this is not the place to share sacred experiences.

I think what President Packer was trying to teach is that many people fail to recognize the Spirt or Holy Ghost confirming the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon and the truthfulness of other things. It is a still small voice after all. I think President Packer was saying that you don't need God to come down and stand on your chest to know that the Book of Mormon or any doctrine for that matter is true. The Spirit or Holy Ghost often manifests Himself in a simple good feeling which anybody can feel. In my opinion this is the greatness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, that anybody can know of its veracity for themselves.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 04:11 PM

Jason, I don't think its necessarily fair to say JS was speaking with evil spirits.

Personally, I believe he either:

A. Made up the stories about his visits with Angels/God/Jesus, in order to establish a false church, for whatever reasons he might have had (a social experiment for example).

or

B. He had some sort of Shizophrenia which caused him to Hallucinate the whole thing, and he was sincere in setting up the LDS Church...though confused enough to leave behind contradicting doctrines, speeches, etc.

But I do NOT believe evil spirits talked to him...because I don't believe in evil spirits.

Big T,

Of course you don't think it's fair. And before I became a Christian again, I would have agreed with you.

Please stop being condescending, Jason. The same basic rules apply here that apply on our other favorite board. You cannot tell people they are not Christian. In fact, I will go the step further than they go there. You can't even imply it. Please refrain from these types of remarks.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by ExMormon-Jason@Apr 14 2005, 11:44 AM

The practice of Folk Magic in JS's time was quite popular and not seen as evil but as the norm. It was the basic religion of the common folk. The 21st century attitude toward Folk Magic is quite different than how it was viewed in JS's time.

There's no doubt in my mind than this was a common practice.

What I think you've failed to realize is that "God" apparently never had a problem with this, nor any of the "spirits" that spoke with Smith.

Therein lies the key about the source of Mormonism, and the "spirits" with whom he communed.

I think that what you fail to realize is that not all spirits are bad. And once people have an encounter with the Divine, they know, without a doubt, what an evil spirit feels like.

I believe that God used Joseph Smith precisely because he did allow himself be open to that type of encounter. He certainly couldn't use someone who was as close-minded as today's (and probably yesterday's) OC's. They would refuse to hear Him, no matter how loud He shouted.