Small Mysteries

[TheAngelPalmoni]

There are some small mysteries that I have been trying to figure out. The tree of knowledge of good and evil, the tree of life, and the flaming sword. I was wondering if anyone understood these to be more than trees and a sword?

~Angel Palmoni~

web.me.com/angelpalmoni

[Justice]

Yes, of course.

They were trees and swords, but I believe symbols of something else.

What are you thinking?

[TheAngelPalmoni]

The tree of knowledge of good and evil could be the light of Christ which tell us all good from the bad. The tree of life could be the fulness of the Holy Ghost or calling and election. Flaming sword are all the commandments put between us and our calling and election.

Lol well that's one possibility.

[Justice]

Interesting thoughts. Very good reasoning.

I'd only add that Christ is the 2nd comforter. It is He that is promised in the sacrament prayers... to always have His Spirit to be with us, and not the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is given at confirmation.

I know Adam and Eve gained the knowledge of good and evil when they partook of the forbidden fruit. I believe as you do that this can be equated to the light of Christ, or conscience.

The flamming sword being placed between us and the tree is very interesting. I believe there are parts of the Book of Mormon that use "sword" in reference to "word." The word of God can be equated to the Gospel and it's teachings, or commandments. Christ also is considered the Word because it was He that delivered the word to us. And, it was He that created all things by the spoken word.

The tree of life is perhaps the biggest mystery. Remember in Lehi and Nephi's dreams that the rod of iron (word of God) and the river of waters both led to the tree. The tree of life was a "representation of the love of God." That's very important to remember when pondering this topic. The symbol is that Christ is the Word of God and He is the living water, and in the dream they both led to the tree. I think the Holy Ghost leads to Christ. The tree, therefore, is something "beyond" what the Holy Ghost offers, and what, in fact, Christ leads us to.

Perhaps Proverbs 3: 13-18 can offer you some additional insight.

Also, I think the flamming sword does hide something from us. That you call it the word is interesting. This word is a piece of information, wisdon, or knowledge. There was some knowledge that was cloaked from us when Adam fell. Again, Proverbs 3 offers some possible insight.

I think Gospel symbols are not 1 dimensional. I think something used in the scriptures can be symbols of many things... all of which lead to the center or core of what the symbol represents. For example: Christ is referred to as the bread of life and the rock. Christ taught that if a child is hungry and in need, that the Father wouldn't give him a stone, but bread. When studied, this teaching is amazing in its depth.

[Traveler]

The tree of knowledge of good and evil could be the light of Christ which tell us all good from the bad. The tree of life could be the fulness of the Holy Ghost or calling and election. Flaming sword are all the commandments put between us and our calling and election.

Lol well that's one possibility.

I believe you to be correct on the first 2 of the 3. The flaming sword is a problem because various interpertations of Old Testament scriptures try to imply that this is one thing held by cherubum (cherubum being plural). New Testament scripture indicate that the symbol of a sword and fire are seperate symbols that are part of the judgement of Christ (that he alone yields) as recorded in the Book of Revelation.

The Traveler

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Yes ther are two cherubim that work inside the church to bring those from their baptism and confirmation to their calling and election. Two work outside the church. Two edge sword from the Word is to either condemn or convert the soul hearing it. The flaming sword are the commandments covenants judgements and trials placed between us and the fulness of the Holy Ghost.

Web.me.com/angelpalmoni

[Justice]

Why do you say "fulness of the Holy Ghost?" Or, why do you think it means that?

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Fulness of the Holy Ghost, or Calling and Election. We have not quite made it that far yet... well at least I have not.

~Angel Palmoni~

web.me.com/angelpalmoni

[Justice]

I don't equate those 2 terms as being the same things.

The 2nd Comforter that comes after the Holy Ghost is the constant companionship of Jesus Christ... as I mentioned is promised in the sacrament prayers.

What have you heard that says "fulness of the Holy Ghost" means "calling and election made sure?"

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Calling and Election come from the Holy Ghost... Right now we don't have a fulness of the Holy Ghost. When we are born into the world everyone is given the free gift of the Light of Christ, when we are baptized and confirmed we are given the Gift of the Holy Ghost which is the Spirit of Christ (sacrament Prayer) When you receive calling and election that is when you receive the fulness of the Holy Ghost. The Second Comforter comes after that I think....

[Traveler]

Calling and Election come from the Holy Ghost... Right now we don't have a fulness of the Holy Ghost. When we are born into the world everyone is given the free gift of the Light of Christ, when we are baptized and confirmed we are given the Gift of the Holy Ghost which is the Spirit of Christ (sacrament Prayer) When you receive calling and election that is when you receive the fulness of the Holy Ghost. The Second Comforter comes after that I think....

The gift of the Holy Ghost is not the Spirit of Christ. You are reading something extra (making an assumption) into the final part of the sacrament prayers.

The Traveler

[TheAngelPalmoni]

So right now you have the Fulness of the Holy Ghost?

[Justice]

Confirmation gives us the gift of the Holy Ghost, that He will always be with us, if we are worthy.

The sacrament prayers promise that we can have the spirit of Christ, or the person of Christ, to always be with us, if we are worthy and keep our sacrament covenants.

I've never actually heard the term you're using, "the fulness of the Holy Ghost." Where did you hear it?

[bytor2112]

Confirmation gives us the gift of the Holy Ghost, that He will always be with us, if we are worthy.

The sacrament prayers promise that we can have the spirit of Christ, or the person of Christ, to always be with us, if we are worthy and keep our sacrament covenants.

I've never actually heard the term you're using, "the fulness of the Holy Ghost." Where did you hear it?

I have never thought of the Sacrament prayer as meaning Christ's Spirit....I had always assumed it reaffirming that we could have the Holy Spirit if we keep HIS commandments.

If you have other info about this, I would really appreciate it.

This is from President Eyring:

Even a child can understand what to do to have the Holy Ghost as a companion. The sacramental prayer tells us. We hear it every week as we attend our sacrament meetings. In those sacred moments we renew the covenants we made at baptism. And the Lord reminds us of the promise we received as we were confirmed members of the Church—the promise that we might receive the Holy Ghost. Here are those words from the sacramental prayer: “They are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them” (D&C 20:77).

We can have His Spirit by keeping that covenant. First, we promise to take His name upon us. That means we must see ourselves as His. We will put Him first in our lives.

Edited August 9, 2009 by bytor2112

[TheAngelPalmoni]

Next, the word for “F,” recurrent in the Doctrine and Covenants, is “fullness.” We all speak of the fullness of the gospel, implying that there are parts elsewhere, but that it comes together in this dispensation. The Lord uses the word “fullness” for other things, too. He speaks of receiving, eventually, the fullness of truth. The fullness of truth, and the fullness of the Holy Ghost, and the fullness of the priesthood, and the fullness of the glory of the Father are all connected with the temple, and you cannot receive them without coming through the temple and having the temple come through you.

To magnify something is to make it bigger or enlarge it. The Melchizedek priesthood, which these 1832 Elders held, allowed them to bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost. They were admonished to continue on in that endeavor until the full magnification of the Melchizedek priesthood could be given within the sacred walls of the Temple. This enlarging process is one in which ordinances are administered in the Temple wherein the “fullness” of the Holy Ghost can be manifest. Thus, the gift of the Holy Ghost would become magnified as well.

Notice "my name shall be here." Solomon plead for that when he dedicated the ancient temple. What does it mean? There are depths beyond depths. You are required as disciples of Christ to come once in seven days and covenant anew to take upon you the name of Jesus Christ. In the house of the Lord you come to take upon you his name in the fullest sense. Why all the emphasis on fullness? Well there is a promise that we will one day have a fullness of truth. That is temple-related. We are promised the fullness of the Holy Ghost. Joseph Smith prayed for that at the Kirtland Temple dedication. And we are promised within the temple the fullness of the priesthood.

[Traveler]

It is important to have experience and understanding of covenant. Many do not understand Matt 5:48 as a direct result of covenant. The concepts of "Perfect", "Fullness", "Being Whole", "Fulfilling the Law" and "Holy" all are related and employ concepts of completeness in covenant. It is likely that many, as was with Christ, will not complete the fullness of their covenants, callings and elections in this life.

The Traveler