What If There Is No "gay Gene"?

[Guest Starsky]

You know President Hinckley is the media king! That has been his 'job' in the church before he was a GA and now prophet. He really has done some great things...but mostly around the state of Utah.

[elinz]

Now is the time.

The perfect opportunity is available today and

over the next 20 years or so...

Prior to 911 it would have been tough, but the

attack, and the reasons for the attack make it

clear to many why we are in need of some

internal change.

But again, many will view it the opposite way

and say it's religion itself that is the problem.

"May you live in interesting times" as the

Chinese say...

[Guest Starsky]

Too interesting for my tastes...

[elinz]

Your muscles will be sore, but it will make you stronger.

[Guest Starsky]

[DisRuptive1]

Ah, how nice. One gay man out of a million or more did something nice. That must mean all gays are kind and nice/end sarcasm.

I don't see how there could be a gay gene. If there is then gays must be having children to pass the gene on to. And since they aren't mating with the opposite sex, children are kind of far-fetched and passing on genes is just as far-fetched.

I could understand chemical imbalances, but I couldn't agree with how unbalanced the chemicals could be. There are way too many 100% gay people to suggest that all the fluctuations in chemical composition could cause the same thing to the same degree in people.

[elinz]

The most logical conclusion is physical addiction.

Scientific American this month has an article on

the brain and it's addictive qualities.

The pleasure center can be addicted by many

types of stimulus. One is gambling.

Are people born with a "gambling gene"?

My guess is that we all have the ability to be

addicted to things, it's being human, and some

simply "forget" the ability to choose they once

had.

The "gay gene" idea is a rationalization.

It's a fraud... B)

But once addicted to anything the only way to

get beyond it is by (surprise) accepting the

error (repent) and humbly learning to live a

new way.

The spiritual perspective is just a different

language that describes the physical reality

of addiction.

The brain actually CHANGES when you get

hooked on something.

Physical change.

That "damage" does not heal quickly and in

some things like smoking it can be 10 or 20

years after the fact and the ex-smoker will

still get urges from time to time.

So in a way your "sins" are semi-permanent.

[Guest curvette]

If the difference between male and female were so cut and dried as "gender being eternal" then there would be no genetic hermaphrodites.

[Jenda]

I don't disagree that there might be a gene found in gay men that could be called a "gay gene", but what does it prove? There is a gene present in those who have Down's Syndrome, too, but that doesn't make it normal. It is an abberation. Meant to die out with the person (since gay's can't reproduce with their choice partner.)

That being said, all of us are God's children. And we all deserve to be treated with love and respect. We don't have to agree with personal beliefs, and we shouldn't expect everyone to agree with ours, but we need to be respectful.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 03:30 PM

I don't disagree that there might be a gene found in gay men that could be called a "gay gene", but what does it prove? There is a gene present in those who have Down's Syndrome, too, but that doesn't make it normal. It is an abberation. Meant to die out with the person (since gay's can't reproduce with their choice partner.)

Down Syndrome is caused by an extra chromosome. It's easy to identify. Gay people don't have an extra chromosome or other obvious genetic differences than straight people. I believe that some gay people are born to be attracted to the same gender. I would think it would be caused by hormone levels though and not an actual "gay gene." I also think some people are seduced into the gay lifestyle and choose it. Rock Hudson is an example of this.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 17 2004, 03:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 17 2004, 03:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 03:30 PM

I don't disagree that there might be a gene found in gay men that could be called a "gay gene", but what does it prove?  There is a gene present in those who have Down's Syndrome, too, but that doesn't make it normal.  It is an abberation.  Meant to die out with the person (since gay's can't reproduce with their choice partner.)

Down Syndrome is caused by an extra chromosome. It's easy to identify. Gay people don't have an extra chromosome or other obvious genetic differences than straight people. I believe that some gay people are born to be attracted to the same gender. I would think it would be caused by hormone levels though and not an actual "gay gene." I also think some people are seduced into the gay lifestyle and choose it. Rock Hudson is an example of this.

There was a study that was able to show a "gay gene" in one of the insect family. It was only present in the males of the society, they were not able to find it among the females. And the study was not reproducible. So, it is questionble whether or not there is really a gene for being homosexual. That aside, even if there was one, it would be an abberation, just like extra chromosomes are abberations.

This is entirely aside from the fact that some do, indeed, choose the gay lifestyle.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 04:50 PM

So, it is questionble whether or not there is really a gene for being homosexual. That aside, even if there was one, it would be an abberation, just like extra chromosomes are abberations.

Okay. Let's suppose there is a 'gay gene" and those people are "abberations" (I think you mean "aberration"), could a Down Syndrome person stop being a Down Syndrome person? If homosexuality is genetic, how can they help being what they are?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 17 2004, 05:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 17 2004, 05:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 04:50 PM

So, it is questionble whether or not there is really a gene for being homosexual.  That aside, even if there was one, it would be an abberation, just like extra chromosomes are abberations.

Okay. Let's suppose there is a 'gay gene" and those people are "abberations" (I think you mean "aberration"), could a Down Syndrome person stop being a Down Syndrome person? If homosexuality is genetic, how can they help being what they are?

Whether or not being homosexual is genetic or a choice or nature or nurture or environmental or whatever, does not change the fact that it is not normal and wrong. Everyone has trials in life that we must overcome, to sacrifice for God's greater good, the good of building the kingdom, etc., and putting off a life of sin is one of them. It is the main one, as far as I am concerned. And while this discussion is surrounding homosexuality, it goes for any sin that we are committing, whether intentionally or unintentionally.

God calls us to rise above ourselves, to deny the Adam to admit the holy.

BTW, thanks for your excellent grammar skills. Where would we be without them? Does that give me permission to edit your posts whenever they contain incorrect grammar?

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 06:58 PM

BTW, thanks for your excellent grammar skills. Where would we be without them? Does that give me permission to edit your posts whenever they contain incorrect grammar?

Please do. My mom always does. :) Is it just my browser, or is this thread just stuck in one place and never moves to the top?

[Behunin]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 17 2004, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 17 2004, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 04:50 PM

So, it is questionble whether or not there is really a gene for being homosexual.  That aside, even if there was one, it would be an abberation, just like extra chromosomes are abberations.

Okay. Let's suppose there is a 'gay gene" and those people are "abberations" (I think you mean "aberration"), could a Down Syndrome person stop being a Down Syndrome person? If homosexuality is genetic, how can they help being what they are?

My 5 year old daughter has Down syndrome. By the way, the correct way to refer to trisomy 21 is Down syndrome, not Down's syndrome. Anyway, I believe that when she is eventually resurrected that she will no longer have Down syndrome because she will be made perfect. Do you think if there is a "gay gene" that those who have it now will be made perfect in the resurrection and not be gay anymore?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Behunin+Feb 17 2004, 09:15 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Behunin @ Feb 17 2004, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -curvette@Feb 17 2004, 06:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 04:50 PM

So, it is questionble whether or not there is really a gene for being homosexual.  That aside, even if there was one, it would be an abberation, just like extra chromosomes are abberations.

Okay. Let's suppose there is a 'gay gene" and those people are "abberations" (I think you mean "aberration"), could a Down Syndrome person stop being a Down Syndrome person? If homosexuality is genetic, how can they help being what they are?

My 5 year old daughter has Down syndrome. By the way, the correct way to refer to trisomy 21 is Down syndrome, not Down's syndrome. Anyway, I believe that when she is eventually resurrected that she will no longer have Down syndrome because she will be made perfect. Do you think if there is a "gay gene" that those who have it now will be made perfect in the resurrection and not be gay anymore?

Behunin, I personally believe that we will all be raised to a perfected state. However, since I am not LDS, I don't have to worry about beliefs about exhaltation, etc., so in my concept of the glories, we might know and remember each other as friends and family members, but we won't be family in the here-after, we will be perfected humans who will all live as brothers and sisters and sexuality won't have a part in it. I believe that that (our sexuality) is part of our trial here on earth and will not be with us when we move on.

[cedar]

Originally posted by Peace@Feb 16 2004, 10:25 AM

There are also clicks that keep good kids out of that supportive circle....and you are right...the two years my son was on his mission, there were 11 total missionaries sent out and 9 of them came home early...and I am talking early! None of them stayed out more than 5 months...one even left three days after entering the mission home.

These kids are 'church spoiled'. They have it too easy and are weak.

My son and the one sister missionary sent were the only two to last the entire time.

Good insight, I totally agree and am glad you said this. We have 3 missionaries out in our stake! But I am sure they will all stay out the entire 2 yrs.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 09:29 PM

However, since I am not LDS, I don't have to worry about beliefs about exhaltation, etc., so in my concept of the glories, we might know and remember each other as friends and family members, but we won't be family in the here-after, we will be perfected humans who will all live as brothers and sisters and sexuality won't have a part in it. I believe that that (our sexuality) is part of our trial here on earth and will not be with us when we move on.

A very sensible belief! There was another thread that quoted (I think) a Gnostic belief that man and woman were literally one androgynous (sp?) being in preexistence and were separated into two sexual beings for the term of this life only and that it is an imperfect state. It's a very interesting thought but kind of scary because what if we marry the wrong soulmate?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette@Feb 17 2004, 01:00 PM

If the difference between male and female were so cut and dried as "gender being eternal" then there would be no genetic hermaphrodites.

Or maybe they just got to that point of no male or female thing in the pre-existence and voila, when they came down here...they couldn't be made all of one or the other.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Jenda+Feb 17 2004, 09:29 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Feb 17 2004, 09:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Originally posted by -Behunin@Feb 17 2004, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by -curvette@Feb 17 2004, 06:57 PM

<!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 04:50 PM

So, it is questionble whether or not there is really a gene for being homosexual.  That aside, even if there was one, it would be an abberation, just like extra chromosomes are abberations.

Okay. Let's suppose there is a 'gay gene" and those people are "abberations" (I think you mean "aberration"), could a Down Syndrome person stop being a Down Syndrome person? If homosexuality is genetic, how can they help being what they are?

My 5 year old daughter has Down syndrome. By the way, the correct way to refer to trisomy 21 is Down syndrome, not Down's syndrome. Anyway, I believe that when she is eventually resurrected that she will no longer have Down syndrome because she will be made perfect. Do you think if there is a "gay gene" that those who have it now will be made perfect in the resurrection and not be gay anymore?

Behunin, I personally believe that we will all be raised to a perfected state. However, since I am not LDS, I don't have to worry about beliefs about exhaltation, etc., so in my concept of the glories, we might know and remember each other as friends and family members, but we won't be family in the here-after, we will be perfected humans who will all live as brothers and sisters and sexuality won't have a part in it. I believe that that (our sexuality) is part of our trial here on earth and will not be with us when we move on.

Well that is one thing we disagree on. I do believe in sexuality in the here after. Anything to do with passion seems to be inherent or intrinsic in God's own nature...just disaplined and used for good.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 18 2004, 10:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 18 2004, 10:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jenda@Feb 17 2004, 09:29 PM

However, since I am not LDS, I don't have to worry about beliefs about exhaltation, etc., so in my concept of the glories, we might know and remember each other as friends and family members, but we won't be family in the here-after, we will be perfected humans who will all live as brothers and sisters and sexuality won't have a part in it.  I believe that that (our sexuality) is part of our trial here on earth and will not be with us when we move on.

A very sensible belief! There was another thread that quoted (I think) a Gnostic belief that man and woman were literally one androgynous (sp?) being in preexistence and were separated into two sexual beings for the term of this life only and that it is an imperfect state. It's a very interesting thought but kind of scary because what if we marry the wrong soulmate?

Oh my gosh! That is a very interesting thought! Because when my husband and I are arguing and he leaves to go down to his study, without making up, I feel like I am just half a person, that without him in harmony with me, I am left unwhole.

Not that I don't carry on just fine...I make up the void with anger which sparks determination..etc...but it isn't as good as when we are working in tandum as one.

[Guest lt]

Well.....If there is no gay gene everyone who is gay will have to face the (Facts) it's by choice...and for those who are religouse, it will effect them like having a dam break on them...they'll deny it and then proceed to say the test results have been rigged by anti gays. (This would be my moms verssion)

However people like my sister will just say...She decided she wanted to be a lesbian at 16, I appreciate her honesty and love her for her...I think thats how it should be

Laureltree

[elinz]

Many people begin a life of smoking around

that age too. It's sad, but once the addiction

takes hold there's not much you can do to

reverse it.

Scientific American discusses the fact that

the brain is actually permanently damaged

by addictions whether chemical or sexual

or even something like gambling.

Being human is a very vulnerable thing...

[GenderX]

Really?

I know that the Salt Lake City area has completely

been taken over by scum. The crime rates are just

terrible and on my way through I nearly got my car

stolen by Russian organized crime. (it's a long story)

But I was under the impression that the Utah Valley

(near Provo) was 90% Mormon and as a consequence

has virtually zero crime.

Exactly what type of wickedness are you talking about?

(and we are way off topic)

haha, i just moved from provo and your in for a big surprise. and i'm not dissapointed in it.