What Does God's Name Say About Him

[Red]

I just wanted to ask what you guys know about God's name.

What is it? What does it mean? What does it mean about Him?

Specifically what does Jehovah (YHWH) mean, and what does Elihim mean?

I'm a Christian (the garden variety bible thumping, evangelical, non-denomational...whatever you want to call it). Penny for your thoughts?

I can't wait to hear from any of you!

God bless,

Red

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Red@Sep 30 2005, 11:03 AM

I just wanted to ask what you guys know about God's name.

What is it?  What does it mean?  What does it mean about Him?

Specifically what does Jehovah (YHWH) mean, and what does Elihim mean?

I'm a Christian (the garden variety bible thumping, evangelical, non-denomational...whatever you want to call it).  Penny for your thoughts?

I can't wait to hear from any of you!

God bless,

Red

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Excellent questions... First Jehovah means "to be" or "exist".... thus the Great I AM... or statement of existence..

Then there is the name Christ meaning "the anointed one" and Jesus meaning The Greek form of the name Joshua or Jeshua, God is help or Savior.

[Red]

Originally posted by Please+Sep 30 2005, 12:12 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Red@Sep 30 2005, 11:03 AM

I just wanted to ask what you guys know about God's name.

What is it?  What does it mean?  What does it mean about Him?

Specifically what does Jehovah (YHWH) mean, and what does Elihim mean?

I'm a Christian (the garden variety bible thumping, evangelical, non-denomational...whatever you want to call it).  Penny for your thoughts?

I can't wait to hear from any of you!

God bless,

Red

←

Excellent questions... First Jehovah means "to be" or "exist".... thus the Great I AM... or statement of existence..

Then there is the name Christ meaning "the anointed one" and Jesus meaning The Greek form of the name Joshua or Jeshua, God is help or Savior.

←

[Red]

Please:

Good answer, you've done some homework but that's not the full meaning of Jehovah. "Hawa" means "to be" or "to exist." Jehovah is derived from it, so what is the meaning of Jehovah (YHWH)? And also, what is the meaning of Elohim?

I'm just curious to see what you guys think :)

God bless

Red

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Red@Sep 30 2005, 12:00 PM

Please:

Good answer, you've done some homework but that's not the full meaning of Jehovah.  "Hawa" means "to be" or "to exist."  Jehovah is derived from it, so what is the meaning of Jehovah (YHWH)?  And also, what is the meaning of Elohim?

I'm just curious to see what you guys think  :)

God bless

Red

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Okay... so you are trolling? don't matter... I like intelligent discussion from whatever quarter...

I have heard this before... but didn't take notes... I think it means 'The Only True God'... LOL or something

As for Elohim... this means GODS EL is God...

[Serg]

Hi brethren:

Elohim is the plural hebrew word for "gods". Though we take it as our Heveanly Father's title, not name, but title, because hebrew is a man made language and all eternal God must not hava a rescently created word, and it means that in HIM one god, is centered and exalted and as to an expression of such glory we say it "GODS", all excellence in Him. Also we take it as Joseph Smith taught, as a word, "Gods", thus its supposed to be rendered in the bible, "in the begining the head of the Gods brought forth the Gods" as in the Pearl of Great Price, saying that Christ and the Holy Spirit (and others) were there as Gods and participated in such creation. Jehova , though we do not have the complete pronaunciation, it means both in hebrew traditionand christian, I am That that I am. Or He exists by Himself, as an expression of NONE dependance to exist, (though we know he also had a beggining), different from us an Pharaoh, that created his own gods. It is important for you to understand that it is very well stablished fact that the title Elohim, dissapeard from half genesis and the rest of the Bible, because the Father had left all dominion and commanment to the Son to guide us and be our God, the Saint of Israel, the Lord of Hosts, thats why Paul says in 1 Cor. 10 that Christ was the Rock that lead Israel, as Jehova. And thats why it was said that God himself would come among men, because He as the Son and God of Israel had that mission, but it does not interfere with our belief thath there is a God the Father who is the Supreme Creator that did not come among men as a man, and that is different and separated from the Son, and hence a Trinity.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Serg@Sep 30 2005, 01:23 PM

Hi brethren:

        Elohim is the plural hebrew word for "gods". Though we take it as our Heveanly Father's title, not name, but title, because hebrew is a man made language and all eternal God must not hava a rescently created word, and it means that in HIM one god, is centered and exalted and as to an expression of such glory we say it "GODS", all excellence in Him. Also we take it as Joseph Smith taught, as a word, "Gods", thus its supposed to be rendered in the bible, "in the begining the head of the Gods brought forth the Gods" as in the Pearl of Great Price, saying that Christ and the Holy Spirit (and others) were there as Gods and participated in such creation.  Jehova , though we do not have the complete pronaunciation, it means both in hebrew traditionand christian, I am That that I am. Or He exists by Himself, as an expression of NONE dependance to exist, (though we know he also had a beggining), different from us an Pharaoh, that created his own gods. It is important for you to understand that it is very well stablished fact that the title Elohim, dissapeard from half genesis and the rest of the Bible, because the Father had left all dominion and commanment to the Son to guide us and be our God, the Saint of Israel, the Lord of Hosts, thats why Paul says in 1 Cor. 10 that Christ was the Rock that lead Israel, as Jehova. And thats why it was said that God himself would come among men, because He as the Son and God of Israel had that mission, but it does not interfere with our belief thath there is a God the Father who is the Supreme Creator that did not come among men as a man, and that is different and separated from the Son, and hence a Trinity.

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WOW thanks Serg.... now what about YHWH? I know it is from that language that uses no vowels....

[k3n54n]

now what about YHWH? I know it is from that language that uses no vowels....

What I heard is that YHWH is the first characters from the words in the sentence "I am who I am".

[Eric]

The Hebrew name, Yahweh breaks down like this: It is spelled with four Hebrew letters, Yod Hey Vav Hey. The first two [Yod Hey] are masculine. The last two [Vav Hey] are feminine. When you drop the Hebrew letter Shin in between this four letters you have Yod Hey [shin] Vav Hey which in the Hebrew spells "Jesus", pronounced, Yeshua.

-eric

visit my website at:

http://czuzone.teach-nology.com

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Eric@Sep 30 2005, 03:23 PM

The Hebrew name, Yahweh breaks down like this: It is spelled with four Hebrew letters, Yod Hey Vav Hey. The first two [Yod Hey] are masculine. The last two [Vav Hey] are feminine. When you drop the Hebrew letter Shin in between this four letters you have Yod Hey [shin] Vav Hey which in the Hebrew spells "Jesus", pronounced, Yeshua.

-eric

visit my website at:

http://czuzone.teach-nology.com

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Hey thanks... btw I love your website... too bad I didn't have it around 20 years ago...

But I have sent it off to my kids...

[Red]

"(A) Jehova , though we do not have the complete pronaunciation, it means both in hebrew traditionand christian, I am That that I am. Or He exists by Himself, as an expression of NONE dependance to exist, (B) (though we know he also had a beggining), different from us an Pharaoh, that created his own gods. © It is important for you to understand that it is very well stablished fact that the title Elohim, dissapeard from half genesis and the rest of the Bible, (D) because the Father had left all dominion and commanment to the Son to guide us and be our God,..."

Hi Serg,

I hope you don't mind if I divide your words into four ideas to look at each. The first thing that strikes me is the relationship between A and B. How do they connect? Or how do they not contradict each other? I have to assume you are not trying to contradict yourself, just like when I read the bible--though I read for contradictions! ;-).

C: Actually, the title Elohim hardly dissapears at all in Genesis or the rest of the OT. It is very often seen right next to YHWH as in "the LORD your/our God." In Genesis 2:4 notice it says "...the LORD God made..." So you could say that "the Self-existent God(Strong/Mighty One) made...". El or Elohim also pops up in biblical poetry, and in a lot of dialogue in the History of Israel: "the living God."

We've established that YHWH means essentially "the one who is" or "Self Existent One" or even "Eternal One," but lets be more precise with Elohim, though it does refer to God, gods or even humans, it literally means "strong one" and when it is plural it is more like "Mighty/Almighty One." Refer to Strong's Concordance/Greek-Hebrew Dictionary; YHWH is H3068 and Elohim is H430 (also look at Wilson's OT Word Studies and Vine's for the "strong/mighty" meaning in Elohim and more info on LORD).

D: Jesus only mentions (as far as I know) that "all power has been given to Him" in Matthew 28:18, but nowhere before that, and that only after His incarnation an He be called Immanuel (God with us). Any possible examples in the OT of the second person of the Godhead beeing given all authority, glory etc.--of being anyone's God--that come to mind are prophecies. But this sounds somewhat convoluted to my ears if Jesus is actually a separate being from God the Father instead of both (and all 3) being of the same essence, not just of the same mind.

Consider: "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him." (Deut 4:35, KJV).

"God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar." Psalms (118:27 KJV).

So we see that YHWH is Elohim and Elohim is YHWH. "Is" denotes that this always was, nothing is implied about YHWH becoming Elohim or Elohim becoming YHWH, or that such a name, title or honor was ever "given" to Him.

Also consider: "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8 (KJV). "Neither" denotes a difference between graven images and anyone else (angels, demons, mankind, or platypus!). He won't share His glory with a dead/dumb stone/wood idol or any living being, So how or even why would he give it to Jesus, or if Jesus is the one speaking here (and not also God the Father) then why would Jesus share or accept glory (Godhood) from His Father?

Thank you for humoring me so far :-).

Red

[Red]

Is the hebrew letter Shin put in there or can it be put in there? There are a lot of words that anyone can change by adding a letter.

Either way, I've always understood (and I think it's been said here) Jesus (Hebrew: Y'shua or Joshua) means "YHWH Saves."

--Red

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Red@Sep 30 2005, 09:56 PM

"(A) Jehova , though we do not have the complete pronaunciation, it means both in hebrew traditionand christian, I am That that I am. Or He exists by Himself, as an expression of NONE dependance to exist, (B) (though we know he also had a beggining), different from us an Pharaoh, that created his own gods. © It is important for you to understand that it is very well stablished fact that the title Elohim, dissapeard from half genesis and the rest of the Bible, (D) because the Father had left all dominion and commanment to the Son to guide us and be our God,..."

Hi Serg,

I hope you don't mind if I divide your words into four ideas to look at each.  The first thing that strikes me is the relationship between A and B.  How do they connect?  Or how do they not contradict each other?  I have to assume you are not trying to contradict yourself, just like when I read the bible--though I read for contradictions!  ;-).

C:  Actually, the title Elohim hardly dissapears at all in Genesis or the rest of the OT.  It is very often seen right next to YHWH as in "the LORD your/our God."  In Genesis 2:4 notice it says "...the LORD God made..." So you could say that "the Self-existent God(Strong/Mighty One) made...".  El or Elohim also pops up in biblical poetry, and in a lot of dialogue in the History of Israel: "the living God."

We've established that YHWH means essentially "the one who is" or "Self Existent One" or even "Eternal One," but lets be more precise with Elohim, though it does refer to God, gods or even humans, it literally means "strong one" and when it is plural it is more like "Mighty/Almighty One."  Refer to Strong's Concordance/Greek-Hebrew Dictionary; YHWH is H3068 and Elohim is H430 (also look at Wilson's OT Word Studies and Vine's for the "strong/mighty" meaning in Elohim and more info on LORD).

D:  Jesus only mentions (as far as I know) that "all power has been given to Him" in Matthew 28:18, but nowhere before that, and that only after His incarnation an He be called Immanuel (God with us).  Any possible examples in the OT of the second person of the Godhead beeing given all authority, glory etc.--of being anyone's God--that come to mind are prophecies.  But this sounds somewhat convoluted to my ears if Jesus is actually a separate being from God the Father instead of both (and all 3) being of the same essence, not just of the same mind. 

Consider:  "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him." (Deut 4:35, KJV).

"God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar." Psalms (118:27 KJV).

So we see that YHWH is Elohim and Elohim is YHWH.  "Is" denotes that this always was, nothing is implied about YHWH becoming Elohim or Elohim becoming YHWH, or that such a name, title or honor was ever "given" to Him.

Also consider: "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." Isaiah 42:8 (KJV).  "Neither" denotes a difference between graven images and anyone else (angels, demons, mankind, or platypus!).  He won't share His glory with a dead/dumb stone/wood idol or any living being, So how or even why would he give it to Jesus, or if Jesus is the one speaking here (and not also God the Father) then why would Jesus share or accept glory (Godhood) from His Father?

Thank you for humoring me so far :-).

Red

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Humoring you? :) Anyway... I have to say your logic to me seems a little lop sided... in that we don't know that when God stated he would not share His glory that he was referring to what you believe He was referring to.

He could have and most probably was referring to the fact that He was OUR Keeper... the one who would be responsible for us in the end... and that in this position he wouldn't do all of this for us and share that glory of that work with any dumb idol... etc...

But that it doesn't mean there were no other Gods at all... like His Father

what I am saying is... when it is stated there is no other God beside Him... only means there is no other God "for us" to be concerned with... because He is the one incharge of us...

does that make sense to you? Or did I make it sound confusing...?

[Red]

Humoring you? :) Anyway... I have to say your logic to me seems a little lop sided... in that we don't know that when God stated he would not share His glory that he was referring to what you believe He was referring to.

He could have and most probably was referring to the fact that He was OUR Keeper... the one who would be responsible for us in the end... and that in this position he wouldn't do all of this for us and share that glory of that work with any dumb idol... etc...

But that it doesn't mean there were no other Gods at all... like His Father

what I am saying is... when it is stated there is no other God beside Him... only means there is no other God "for us" to be concerned with... because He is the one incharge of us...

does that make sense to you? Or did I make it sound confusing...?

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The only hole I see in that line of thinking is how would you make the case that it actually does say "there is no other God for us" but that there are other Gods out there? Or in other words, how do you make the case that the Bible only speaks in the context of just this world and not also of all creation?

--Red

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Humoring you?  :)  Anyway... I have to say your logic to me seems a little lop sided... in that we don't know that when God stated he would not share His glory that he was referring to what you believe He was referring to.

He could have and most probably was referring to the fact that He was OUR Keeper... the one who would be responsible for us in the end... and that in this position he wouldn't do all of this for us and share that glory of that work with any dumb idol... etc...

But that it doesn't mean there were no other Gods at all... like His Father

what I am saying is... when it is stated there is no other God beside Him... only means there is no other God "for us" to be concerned with... because He is the one incharge of us...

does that make sense to you? Or did I make it sound confusing...?

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The only hole I see in that line of thinking is how would you make the case that it actually does say "there is no other God for us" but that there are other Gods out there?  Or in other words, how do you make the case that the Bible only speaks in the context of just this world and not also of all creation?

--Red

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I guess because of the impression I get from reading all of the scriptures and how it is all about us... I mean we are the kingdom of God... without us... there is no kingdom.. right?

We understand from John the Word was with God and the Word was God that He wasn't necessarily with Himself... and we know the Word of God is Christ because of the scripture in

Rev. 19: 13

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

So we know there was more than just one God... and Christ is called God with us... Emanuel... etc..

[Red]

Please,

Thank you for double checking me on the context of Isaiah 42:8. Sometimes I get a little hasty, but this time I think I got lucky (thank you lord) and am still reading the passage correctly. So I took a second look at it and here's what I found:

Considering the broad context, this is prophecy, it is addressed to specific people as either a warning or to give hope or both.

5Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

Here God gets specific about identifying himself so no one can say they weren't sure who was talking when the impending judgement or promise came. He also establishes His credibility here, like He's saying, "I'm the one who let's you breathe! So listen up!"

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Here He is stating his purposes for and with the original readers. Restating His name in v6 is an appeal to His aforementioned authority over the readers.

8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Just in case there's anyone with a real thick head in the audience thinking, "Oh c'mon, God's not gonna do all that!" or "well good for Him, but I've got my fertility goddess," God reiterates a third time His Holy Name connected to the authority in v5. so to the guy who's still thinking "yeah right God, sure..." He names Himself as the one in authority to cut off our air, curse or bless, so believe or beware. Glory (Strong's H3519) is part of what God is, it's His "splendour" it's His honor or designates Him as honorable--praiseworthy. So if God doesn't give any of it to any other person or thing, then they have no authority to do anything like what God says He'll do. He is not saying the He is the only God for us but that He is the only God who can or will "keep us" and these things.

9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

further historical proof of His trustworthiness...

10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.

Now He describes how anyone ought to act towards such a God as Himself. Again, not because He's the only God for us but because He's the only one who's worthy of this kind of adoration--He's the only one with His glory, all other apparent glory is worthless to Him. Essentially what I'm saying is that there is no line in this passage that says "I am the God for you." Instead, we are for Him.

Isaiah 42:5-10 (KJV)

I hope that was more or less coherent. I suppose the real issue of v6 is who "another" refers to. I would have to take it as any earthly or heavenly being anywhere. There simply is no "cap" on the expression to limit it to only this earth (if there are any others). And I think it is more likely to consider that God is referring more to Heavenly beings than to any human because none of us ever created anything.

[Red]

...more than one God, or the same God but in the flesh?...

Time to pass out...good night

God Bless

--Red

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Red@Oct 1 2005, 02:34 AM

...more than one God, or the same God but in the flesh?...

Time to pass out...good night

God Bless

--Red

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So is he talking to Himself when he is praying.. and teaching that he does nothing save what He has seen the Father do? Here below are a few of the references where Christ is talking with His Father...

Matt. 5: 16

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

So do you believe Christ is in Heaven at this point? I am confused at what you are saying... are you saying the God of the OT isn't Christ? or Is Christ? and who is the son? and who is the Father and are they not both Gods? But Christ is the one here for us... and the glory... being His own... according to the reward system of eternity... will be His for His works...

We all are going to receive our own glory according to how faithful we are down here... Paul stated that because of afflictions one could gain a weightier share of glory... we too will receive glory according to the teachings of the NT... so of course Christ/Jehovah will receive all of His own glory... and it will not be given to another... not even His Father... though as a son can bring glory to a father here on earth.... by being righteous.... He can also bring a glory to himself that will not be given to another.. not even his earthly father...

Matt. 5: 45

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matt. 5: 48

48 aBe• ye therefore bperfect•, even as your cFather which is in heaven is dperfect.

Matt. 6: 1

1 aTAKE• heed that ye do not your balms• before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 6: 9

9 aAfter• this manner therefore bpray ye: Our cFather which art in heaven, dHallowed• be thy ename.

Matt. 7: 11

11 If ye then, abeing• evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matt. 7: 21

21 ¶ Not every one that asaith• unto me, bLord•, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that cdoeth• the dwill of my Father which is in eheaven•.

Matt. 10: 32

32 Whosoever therefore shall aconfess• me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 10: 33

33 But whosoever shall adeny• me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 12: 50

50 For whosoever shall do the awill• of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my bbrother, and sister, and mother.

Matt. 15: 13

13 But he answered and said, Every aplant•, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Matt. 16: 17

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon aBar•-jona: for flesh and blood hath not brevealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 18: 10

10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these alittle ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 18: 14

14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these alittle ones should bperish•.

Matt. 18: 19

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall aagree on earth as btouching• any thing that they shall cask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Matt. 23: 9

9 aAnd• call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mark 11: 25

25 And when ye stand apraying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may bforgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11: 26

26 But if ye do not aforgive•, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Mark 13: 32

32 ¶ But of that aday and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Luke 11: 2

2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our aFather which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy bname. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

[Red]

hmmmm...so I take your biggest question to be "how can Jesus talk to the Father if they are botht he same God?" I'll take a deep breath and try to explain the Trinity. But first, when we say that the Trinity is incomprehensible we do not mean it is illogical. The ideas of infinity or eternity make logical sense but are truly incomprehensible to us because we (or at least I, for one) can't fit an idea that big inside our heads. I can't visualize the Trinity (and that's part of the point, even a mental image can be a graven image) just like I can't really visualize the true vastness of space.

So why would we traditional Christians believe in something so complex? Wouldn't 3 co-equal Gods (two of which with flesh and bone bodies) be so much easier? Easy isn't always right. I'll define what's at stake in this belief and then explain how the 3 persons of the Trinity relate to each other.

Simply put: if Christ is not God, against whom we have sinned then our salvation is meaningless.

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2 Cor 5:17-20 (KJV)

Also consider this:

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Mark 10:17-18 (KJV)

If there are none who are good besides God alone and if Jesus is not God then He is not good and His sacrefice for our salvation is worthless. But Jesus is good, and since there is only one who is good, Jesus must be God.

Someone might say "he's just talking about masters/teachers, that God is the only good one." If so, and if Jesus is not God, then why listen to anything Jesus says? But aside from that, Jesus says nothing here about masters, but criticizes the man for arbitrarily calling anyone good (though the man guessed right this time!).

Now what do

I mean by "in." I literally mean: in. God is in me and I am in Him, and Jesus used to say the same thing from time to time--except that He is God and I am His creation.

15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1 Cor 6:15-17 (KJV)

So in the same way that a man and a woman become one flesh, I am one spirit with God....Whow. That thought always kinda trips me out. Yet I still talk to God don't I? My spirit and God are now one but I have my own thoughts. I am the same person I always was (a work in progress) but my spirit is bonded/joined to Him.

It is the same way with the Trinity: One God in three persons, the Father above us, Jesus with us, and the spirit in us. They each have their own functions and can have there own thoughts, their own personality, but always always always in perfect harmony towards the same objective. When Christ was baptized we see this harmony, acting as one because God is one, the Father proclaiming, the Son submitting (being the example we humans can look to), and the Holy Spirit descending. Also when Christ was in the garden and asks if this cup may be passed from Him but nontheless surrenders to His Fathers will we see this perfect harmony of the two persons of the same essence. Neither wanted Christ to die and where the Father commands the Son submits--both striving for the same goal.

To say that the Father is God, Jesus is God, the Spirit is God, and that there is only one God is not to say that they can't talk to each other.

I sincerly hope I didn't just add to the confusion, please push me to clarify if I need to.

[Red]

"So do you believe Christ is in Heaven at this point? I am confused at what you are saying... are you saying the God of the OT isn't Christ? or Is Christ? and who is the son? and who is the Father and are they not both Gods?"

Yes Christ is in Heaven, but nothing is stopping Him from a visit now and again. But He is also with us, He is omnipresent if He is God.

The God of the OT is Christ. That same God came to earth and died for our sins.

The Son is God.

No, they are not both Gods, they are both God.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Red@Oct 2 2005, 11:52 PM

"So do you believe Christ is in Heaven at this point? I am confused at what you are saying... are you saying the God of the OT isn't Christ? or Is Christ? and who is the son? and who is the Father and are they not both Gods?"

Yes Christ is in Heaven, but nothing is stopping Him from a visit now and again.  But He is also with us, He is omnipresent if He is God.

The God of the OT is Christ.  That same God came to earth and died for our sins.

The Son is God.

No, they are not both Gods, they are both God.

←

I appreciate your gallant effort to teach the godhead... it is not easy to understand... unless you come to Know God and then it become infinitely simple...

I see three personages in the God head... distinct and separate... yet all having the same goal, purpose and working together...

I know this is true... because of what I know beyond this...

[Red]

Now that we have established what God's name(s) mean...

What do they mean about Him?

Or to get to the point: Why does Jesus (since you hold Him to be only YHWH) have a name like "Self-Existent One" (YHWH) if he was not always (a) God, but at one point unorganized intelligence/matter formed together by His Father? However you render the Holy name in english it implies no beginning and no end--did He just choose an arbitrary name, like we so often do?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Red@Oct 8 2005, 12:39 AM

Now that we have established what God's name(s) mean...

What do they mean about Him?

Or to get to the point:  Why does Jesus (since you hold Him to be only YHWH) have a name like "Self-Existent One" (YHWH) if he was not always (a) God, but at one point unorganized intelligence/matter formed together by His Father?  However you render the Holy name in english it implies no beginning and no end--did He just choose an arbitrary name, like we so often do?

←

He is doing two things with these names. First He is testifying of His own existence.

Second He is giving us a goal. Because EXISTENCE of God is more than the physical existence of man.

It is a state of being spiritually existent. Powerfully existent... etc.

[Traveler]

Often as we contemplate "The" meaning of names, titles and descriptions we often end up not seeing the forest for the trees. As we ponder the meaning of G-d's name we are even more limited because all we have are translations and interpretations in English of something that has meaning in another language and culture.

The concept of G-d as a king and the king of a heavenly kingdom worries me that there is a possibility that by concentrating on single meanings of name(s) in a nother language may lead to misleading conclusions. I would submit that one key to understanding G-d and his covenants and laws as pertaining to his kingdom and his relationship to his subjects (of his kingdom) can be understood in part in understanding symbols he has given expressing that relationship.

For example the concept of king of kingdom: Without a understanding of the ancient Near Eastern Suzerain servant vassal structure of law we may miss several very important notions. Comments in scripture such as "Eyes that can see and ears that can hear" reference such Suzerain servant vassal laws. The concept of someone being sent in the name of the king or acting in the name of the king or even taking upon oneself the name of the king. We can extend this to the laws of being reborne to the king as well as other concepts. But attempting to understand these notions based on our society and system of government is without question taking the knowledge of scripture out of contest.

I think there is something to be gained with considering a microscopic view of individual things but without the big picture we will miss the greater things of G-d.

My opinion

The Traveler