Okay I Am In Need Of Some Serious Input

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Symbols in the book of Revelations...

Horse... war

scorpian.. trechery, attacking... etc

5 months...??

any given time period... 42 weeks months or whatever...

I need to understand the time given for certain things....

[JonMorgan]

Well, I hope I can be of assistance. I consider myself to be a little more than okay at understanding symbols in Scripture, journals, essays, and even fiction pieces. I also feel comfortable saying I am fair at least in translating ancient style into more modern comprehensible wording without too much damage to the meaning given after translation to English. And if I can help you, then if you should ever need more help, email me at [email protected].

In order to fully understand any measurement of time given in the Book of Revelation, we need to first realize that of course, everything happens in accordance to when the Lord wishes. Time therefore, is a very mysterious entity itself. I believe in Alma 40, verse 7 or 8, it mentions the lesser importance of time to God than the greater importance of time to man; “…time only is measured unto man.” In Abraham 3, verse 4, Abraham describes of the planet which is closest to the throne of God which shares His unit of time, and in comparison to our own, 1 day to the Lord is like unto 1000 years unto mortal men on earth. You are probably of course, becoming impatient with my answer, as you likely are aware of these things already. However, I ask that you bear with me for a paragraph or two longer.

The most prominent, symbolic, and important measurement of time given in Revelations is without question the millennium in which Christ returns and rules, and the Devil is imprisoned, the millennium which has indeed just began. (See Bible Dictionary – Chronological Tables) The reason why as mentioned in Revelations why the millennium begins 6000 years after the Fall of Adam from the Garden of Eden is more than likely, (as of course only speculation, experience, and modern revelation can tell us) is that the Lord had prepared the Earth as we know it for us to live here in 6 days, and rested on the 7th, and he has prepared men for the chance to live again with him in 6000 years, and he will reign over us throughout the last 1000 years.

“Beautiful bright, millennial day.” Or “If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be.” “I see the stars....My Savior God to Thee, How Great Thou Art”. The point most of our hymns which are praises to the Lord are trying to make is that His Power and Love is so infinite, that time itself had no meaning to Him, or His work. Like in Revelations 20, the Lord uses time measurements for our benefit, as a sign, countdown, clock, and historical reference.

The last thing I would tell you is to simply look in the Topical Guide, where it says Millennial Reign, and also where it says Millennium. Thank you for bearing with me and my pompous amount of energy, I pray you forgive me if I seemed to eccentric or overwhelmingly misinterpreting what you were asking for. I say only that I hope the help a bored 19-year-old would be of some use to you, now, and in the future.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by JonMorgan@Oct 9 2005, 03:52 AM

Well, I hope I can be of assistance. I consider myself to be a little more than okay at understanding symbols in Scripture, journals, essays, and even fiction pieces. I also feel comfortable saying I am fair at least in translating ancient style into more modern comprehensible wording without too much damage to the meaning given after translation to English. And if I can help you, then if you should  ever need more help, email me at [email protected].

In order to fully understand any measurement of time given in the Book of Revelation, we need to first realize that of course, everything happens in accordance to when the Lord wishes. Time therefore, is a very mysterious entity itself. I believe in Alma 40, verse 7 or 8, it mentions the lesser importance of time to God than the greater importance of time to man; “…time only is measured unto man.” In Abraham 3, verse 4, Abraham describes of the planet which is closest to the throne of God which shares His unit of time, and in comparison to our own, 1 day to the Lord is like unto 1000 years unto mortal men on earth. You are probably of course, becoming impatient with my answer, as you likely are aware of these things already. However, I ask that you bear with me for a paragraph or two longer.

The most prominent, symbolic, and important measurement of time given in Revelations is without question the millennium in which Christ returns and rules, and the Devil is imprisoned, the millennium which has indeed just began. (See Bible Dictionary – Chronological Tables) The reason why as mentioned in Revelations why the millennium begins 6000 years after the Fall of Adam from the Garden of Eden is more than likely, (as of course only speculation, experience, and modern revelation can tell us) is that the Lord had prepared the Earth as we know it for us to live here in 6 days, and rested on the 7th, and he has prepared men for the chance to live again with him in 6000 years, and he will reign over us throughout the last 1000 years.

“Beautiful bright, millennial day.” Or “If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye, And then continue onward With that same speed to fly, Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity, Find out the generation Where Gods began to be.” “I see the stars....My Savior God to Thee, How Great Thou Art”. The point most of our hymns which are praises to the Lord are trying to make is that His Power and Love is so infinite, that time itself had no meaning to Him, or His work. Like in Revelations 20, the Lord uses time measurements for our benefit, as a sign, countdown, clock, and historical reference.

The last thing I would tell you is to simply look in the Topical Guide, where it says Millennial Reign, and also where it says Millennium. Thank you for bearing with me and my pompous amount of energy, I pray you forgive me if I seemed to eccentric or overwhelmingly misinterpreting what you were asking for. I say only that I hope the help a bored 19-year-old would be of some use to you, now, and in the future.

←

That was all great... but what I am looking for is specif amounts of time are given in the books of revelation. 5 months is just one instance... there are some measured in days and others years...

I know the number 40 is considered a number meaning cleansing or completion...

I wonder how much time 5 months really is... and this...

And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

[JonMorgan]

-I am deeply sorry, for I should have been more attentive. I thought I kind of misunderstood, although it is most unrealistic for any of us to expect to understand Rev. until after it has happened. You may disagree, but about 85% of members reading Revelations forget that back then, John the Revelator had NO knowledge of what it would be like here today, and so in his visions he saw our way of life including weapons, transportation, clothing, laws, instant mass communication, etc. How could he without knowing what all of that was possibly put it in words others could understand? He of course had help from the Lord, but for the most part, writing about his visions came as what struck him the most useful to you and I. He knew that the church that was going to start a few years after his death would not allow its members to read and interpret the scriptures, so he didn’t write for them, even though they had copies of his writings. He wrote for those who would be most affected by the things he saw, but did not himself fully understand.

-Revelation 11:2-3 (Forty and Two Months=a thousand two hundred and threescore days) - Represents the number of months that the two witnesses have from the time they begin prophesying to the time Christ comes. These two shall keep the warriors from storming Jerusalem until they are killed. 42 months in 3.5 years. 1260 days is about 3.45 years.

-Rev: 9:5 Your five months is torment of a scorpion when he strikes a man. When one is stung by a scorpion, they beg for death, and this is characteristically mentioned as a punishment they will not die.

-Rev. 11: 9 (3.5 Days) See the pattern? Throughout all the scriptures, a lot of witnesses were bad guys at first, until they had a marvelous miracle, humbling experience. Then they went about serving the Lord, teaching of Him. These witnesses are probably paying off a debt, or at least by what we know of them, they have a lot of work cut out for them. It is not unrealistic to suppose that after doing the service to the Lord that they will be killed, and will lie in the street for the whole world to know for about 3.5 Days until the Lord’s Spirit enters them and lifts their bodies to their feet. Thus, 3.5 days or years, either way, is possibly countdown and preparation for their redemption, and lifting up to Heaven.

-Rev. 12:6 (a thousand two hundred and threescore days) Again we have the same time as for the last chapter, but this is actually length of time symbol- it means famine, as does the woman mentioned in the verse. See Amos 8:11-12 It is a famine of hearing the words of the Lord, she will be in the wilderness for the length of time that the witnesses in Jerusalem shall prophecy, and it is because she has fled there to a place prepared of the Lord.

-Rev. 13:5 (Forty and Two months) - Yes, this is mentioning a blaspheming beast that will be in power for the same length of time as mentioned above. The truth about this same amount of time is that all sorts of things are prophesied to come to pass during it. I will be a very busy time for all. This particular usage though is referring to the Anti-Christ. For later in the chapter 13, verse 18, it reads: “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.” This is where the number 666 comes from.

-The 10 days of tribulation to the blasphemers mentioned in Rev. 2:9-10 is significant in that the Lord has once told all, probably in D&C the most that he will not try us beyond that which we can withstand. 10 days are all the Lord has time to give trials to those whom he earlier in that chapter professed to hate. I believe the time frame has to do with certain judgments of men that happen throughout the last days, judgments that God makes.

-The most successful way of trying to understand what specific amounts of time symbolize is to know that time is only time to men, and therefore is basically all we spiritually need to understand about it. However, I assume you are not doing this just for fun and you are therefore using it in a lesson, or even an assignment. You could search for a whole year, nonstop and still not have all the symbols time has to offer in the scriptures, because we are only men, and lack the divinity of the Lord. I suggest that no matter what you want this knowledge for, you ask Him, for he will give to you knowledge when there is asking in faith. That very philosophy recorded in James is what restored this wonderful gospel.

-Sorry again, if I have made an error. You’ve probably already noticed that I am not into shorthand or shortcuts in writing, particularly because it seems so hasty, so meaningless. I am trying to write a novel, have been for about a month since I got a new job that allows about 5 hours of paid freed time (night watch for troubled teens at a reform residential school) and it has proved to be much fun, and is coming along rather nicely. So forgive me if I am long winded.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Cool... I am writing a novel as well.. Hope to be finished very soon..

I am asking for this knowledge because I believe we are to watch and pray always... searching, pondering and praying about the scriptures which were given to us for our time.

You have helped me greatly... the pattern of 3.5 years is very significant as wondering in the wilderness/famine/working out our debt...etc.. thank you for this significant contribution.

Also.. the number 666... I discovered... is the 2/3s that became man on earth... the 1/3 having followed Satan... and therefore represents his goal to destroy 2/3s which didn't follow him.

The scorpion information also is very significant... that they would suffer from the sting of Satan's buffetting or captivity and wish to die but not die... the worm dieth not... and they would call the rocks down upon their heads because of guilt... etc..

Thank you so much... I am going to save your post so that I can study it more...

Now... one more question... these prophets... do you think there are only two or that two is representative of a group such as was found in Jerusalem during Lehi's time...

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please@Oct 8 2005, 08:33 PM

Symbols in the book of Revelations...

Horse... war

scorpian.. trechery, attacking... etc

5 months...??

any given time period... 42 weeks months or whatever...

I need to understand the time given for certain things....

←

The Book of Revelations.....Crack meet Pipe.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Oct 10 2005, 11:10 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 8 2005, 08:33 PM

Symbols in the book of Revelations...

Horse... war

scorpian.. trechery, attacking... etc

5 months...??

any given time period... 42 weeks months or whatever...

I need to understand the time given for certain things....

←

The Book of Revelations.....Crack meet Pipe.

←

Now was that respectful? It certainly wasn't intelligent... I don't think this particular forum is for you Jason...

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Please@Oct 10 2005, 10:55 AM

Cool... I am writing a novel as well..   Hope to be finished very soon..

I am asking for this knowledge because I believe we are to watch and pray always... searching, pondering and praying about the scriptures which were given to us for our time.

You have helped me greatly... the pattern of 3.5 years is very significant as wondering in the wilderness/famine/working out our debt...etc.. thank you for this significant contribution.

Also.. the number 666... I discovered... is the 2/3s that became man on earth... the 1/3 having followed Satan... and therefore represents his goal to destroy 2/3s which didn't follow him.

The scorpion information also is very significant... that they would suffer from the sting of Satan's buffetting or captivity and wish to die but not die... the worm dieth not... and they would call the rocks down upon their heads because of guilt... etc..

Thank you so much... I am going to save your post so that I can study it more...

Now... one more question... these prophets... do you think there are only two or that two is representative of a group such as was found in Jerusalem during Lehi's time...

←

[JonMorgan]

Originally posted by Please@Oct 10 2005, 10:55 AM

Cool... I am writing a novel as well..   Hope to be finished very soon..

I am asking for this knowledge because I believe we are to watch and pray always... searching, pondering and praying about the scriptures which were given to us for our time.

You have helped me greatly... the pattern of 3.5 years is very significant as wondering in the wilderness/famine/working out our debt...etc.. thank you for this significant contribution.

Also.. the number 666... I discovered... is the 2/3s that became man on earth... the 1/3 having followed Satan... and therefore represents his goal to destroy 2/3s which didn't follow him.

The scorpion information also is very significant... that they would suffer from the sting of Satan's buffetting or captivity and wish to die but not die... the worm dieth not... and they would call the rocks down upon their heads because of guilt... etc..

Thank you so much... I am going to save your post so that I can study it more...

Now... one more question... these prophets... do you think there are only two or that two is representative of a group such as was found in Jerusalem during Lehi's time...

←

I believe that two is correct. How would it be for the Adversary and his servants to assassinate more than two at time, for fear of being discovered? This mostly because the devil for all his cunning would not wish to ruin his image to the rest of the world, for they believe him to be harmless, indeed the majority of the world will believe him to be the true Messiah. They will be deluded by his flattering words, and poisonous advice to them not to follow God’s will and commandments. However, I may be wrong.

It delights me to hear of your interest in literature and scripture. Good luck finishing your manuscript, and when it publishes, I should like to know when I can buy it, so email me.

My book though is not yet completed as thus far turned into a series, mostly about many fears, common and uncommon. A lot of these fears seem to be manifested rapidly everyday from present time to the near future. Not exactly about the last days, but about the wars, the atrocities committed by the fallen ones, and the righteous overcoming it.

I hope all goes well with you and your writing. If you should need anything else, post a topic, or simply email me, my father is remarkable at coming up with scriptural, historical, political, proper ideas, symbols, and everything that I overlook. But I have faith in you.

~Jon-Morgan~

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by JonMorgan+Oct 12 2005, 01:25 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 10 2005, 10:55 AM

Cool... I am writing a novel as well..   Hope to be finished very soon..

I am asking for this knowledge because I believe we are to watch and pray always... searching, pondering and praying about the scriptures which were given to us for our time.

You have helped me greatly... the pattern of 3.5 years is very significant as wondering in the wilderness/famine/working out our debt...etc.. thank you for this significant contribution.

Also.. the number 666... I discovered... is the 2/3s that became man on earth... the 1/3 having followed Satan... and therefore represents his goal to destroy 2/3s which didn't follow him.

The scorpion information also is very significant... that they would suffer from the sting of Satan's buffetting or captivity and wish to die but not die... the worm dieth not... and they would call the rocks down upon their heads because of guilt... etc..

Thank you so much... I am going to save your post so that I can study it more...

Now... one more question... these prophets... do you think there are only two or that two is representative of a group such as was found in Jerusalem during Lehi's time...

←

I believe that two is correct. How would it be for the Adversary and his servants to assassinate more than two at time, for fear of being discovered? This mostly because the devil for all his cunning would not wish to ruin his image to the rest of the world, for they believe him to be harmless, indeed the majority of the world will believe him to be the true Messiah. They will be deluded by his flattering words, and poisonous advice to them not to follow God’s will and commandments. However, I may be wrong.

It delights me to hear of your interest in literature and scripture. Good luck finishing your manuscript, and when it publishes, I should like to know when I can buy it, so email me.

My book though is not yet completed as thus far turned into a series, mostly about many fears, common and uncommon. A lot of these fears seem to be manifested rapidly everyday from present time to the near future. Not exactly about the last days, but about the wars, the atrocities committed by the fallen ones, and the righteous overcoming it.

I hope all goes well with you and your writing. If you should need anything else, post a topic, or simply email me, my father is remarkable at coming up with scriptural, historical, political, proper ideas, symbols, and everything that I overlook. But I have faith in you.

~Jon-Morgan~

←

Wouldn'[t you know... on the eve of my completion... my kids get a virus.. and in the process of cleaning up the computer... turn all of my work into little squares on a page...

I am sending these 400 pages to a recover place in California in hopes they can save my work. If not... I don't think I have the heart to start over...

[Jason]

Originally posted by Please+Oct 12 2005, 10:07 AM-->

Originally posted by JonMorgan@Oct 12 2005, 01:25 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-Please@Oct 10 2005, 10:55 AM

Cool... I am writing a novel as well..   Hope to be finished very soon..

I am asking for this knowledge because I believe we are to watch and pray always... searching, pondering and praying about the scriptures which were given to us for our time.

You have helped me greatly... the pattern of 3.5 years is very significant as wondering in the wilderness/famine/working out our debt...etc.. thank you for this significant contribution.

Also.. the number 666... I discovered... is the 2/3s that became man on earth... the 1/3 having followed Satan... and therefore represents his goal to destroy 2/3s which didn't follow him.

The scorpion information also is very significant... that they would suffer from the sting of Satan's buffetting or captivity and wish to die but not die... the worm dieth not... and they would call the rocks down upon their heads because of guilt... etc..

Thank you so much... I am going to save your post so that I can study it more...

Now... one more question... these prophets... do you think there are only two or that two is representative of a group such as was found in Jerusalem during Lehi's time...

←

I believe that two is correct. How would it be for the Adversary and his servants to assassinate more than two at time, for fear of being discovered? This mostly because the devil for all his cunning would not wish to ruin his image to the rest of the world, for they believe him to be harmless, indeed the majority of the world will believe him to be the true Messiah. They will be deluded by his flattering words, and poisonous advice to them not to follow God’s will and commandments. However, I may be wrong.

It delights me to hear of your interest in literature and scripture. Good luck finishing your manuscript, and when it publishes, I should like to know when I can buy it, so email me.

My book though is not yet completed as thus far turned into a series, mostly about many fears, common and uncommon. A lot of these fears seem to be manifested rapidly everyday from present time to the near future. Not exactly about the last days, but about the wars, the atrocities committed by the fallen ones, and the righteous overcoming it.

I hope all goes well with you and your writing. If you should need anything else, post a topic, or simply email me, my father is remarkable at coming up with scriptural, historical, political, proper ideas, symbols, and everything that I overlook. But I have faith in you.

~Jon-Morgan~

←

Wouldn'[t you know... on the eve of my completion... my kids get a virus.. and in the process of cleaning up the computer... turn all of my work into little squares on a page...

I am sending these 400 pages to a recover place in California in hopes they can save my work. If not... I don't think I have the heart to start over...

←

That'll teach you to back up your work.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

That'll teach you to back up your work.

Yeah... I have had this lesson a a smaller scale

but of late I was getting so busy with remodeling

and stuff that I didn't have it clearly in my mind

to back it up.... I just wanted to work on it here

and there... when I had a minute... because I

had done so much writing this summer I was getting

burned out.... but still needed to finish at least the

first book of three...

anyway... lesson learned... the hard way as usual...

[JonMorgan]

I am sorry, I have never had any problem with viruses, I got my Microsoft Office User Specialist Certificate when I was 16, and I have built well over 100 computers, whether for the high school here, or for myself, and I also know how to get rid of them if ever they come. Thank goodness to technical courses.

I hope all works out with your work. I should much like to see the final product. If I can remember, I will pray that your work will be successfully restored to you, if it so be the Lord’s will.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by JonMorgan@Oct 13 2005, 01:23 AM

I am sorry, I have never had any problem with viruses, I got my Microsoft Office User Specialist Certificate when I was 16, and I have built well over 100 computers, whether for the high school here, or for myself, and I also know how to get rid of them if ever they come. Thank goodness to technical courses.

I hope all works out with your work. I should much like to see the final product. If I can remember, I will pray that your work will be successfully restored to you, if it so be the Lord’s will.

←

Well there is a bright side after all... I was having my daughter do some proof reading while she was in school down in AZ... she has kept everything I have sent her via e-mail...

Also my son, who sounds very much like you... a computer guy... had cached some and has retrieved that... it looks like between what the guys in California can retrieve... and what my kids have saved... that I will only have another month or so of work... rather than having to start from scratch...

Thanks for your prayers... I would appreciate you continue to pray for me as I try to piece it all back together...

I would love to have you read my book.... as soon as I get it done and published...

[livy111us]

The numbers in Daniel and Revelations have not been revealed, so we are left to speculate. There are many theories from every denomination, but all have flaws. The theory that I subscribe to is also not without flaws, but seems to be the least flawless. It is as follows"

Dan. 12:11 “and from the time that the daily sacrifices be taken away, and the

abomination of desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days”.

There will be 1290 days from the time of discontinuance of the daily sacrifice until the desolate abomination.

Num. 14:34 speaks about Israel being in the desert for forty days. Now we know that it was not forty days, but forty years. These are prophetic days. They are spoken about in Ez. 4:6 which is one day for a year. So we will convert the 1290 days spoken about in Daniel into prophetic days, or in other words, years.

Now the law of Moses required all to make a daily sacrifice. At Jesus’ time they did this much less often. For example, John the Baptist’s father was making his annual visit there. There is no record of a daily sacrifice after the Jews were carried away captive by the Babylonians.

2 Kings 17:16 “and they left all the commandments of the Lord their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven and served baal” now this happened in the year 720 B.C. which would mean that the daily sacrifices were taken away here, then it follows that the desolate abomination referred to in Daniel 12:11 would occur 1290 years later. 720 B.C. plus 1290 years would be 570 A.D.

Christs church was organized close to 30 A.D. and began to grow very rapidly, due to the efforts of the apostles and missionaries. The apostasy began to become prevalent immediately after the death of Christ. But, according to James E. Talmage in the great apostasy, the church continued to grow.

Close to the year 100 AD, the number of members of the church began to decline more rapidly (The Great Apostasy, Talmage). This was from a higher apostasy rate than baptism rate, persecution was killing off many of the faithful members, and communications with the authorities was nearly impossible.

In the year 306, the universal (Catholic church) was organized by Constantine. In the year 325, the Catholic church was made the state religion and mandatory for all subjects of the holy Roman empire. Records are found of times where few believers of Christ would not submit themselves to this mandatory “Christian” religion as they did not want to “adulterate” their faith.

James E. Talmage says that there is evidence of true believers of Jesus Christ, and of the necessity of priesthood as late as the year 490 A.D., and that some authorities have projected a date as late as 530 and dr. William Smith LL.D. “Bible Dictionary of England” in his first four original volumes, it stated that the latest known date that the priesthood was on the earth was 570 AD.

Rev. 12:1-- “ and there appeared a great wonder in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of 12 stars”. “this is Christ church (women, celestialized (sun symbolic of the Celestial kingdom), moon under her feet (moon is a symbol of purity) twelve stars (founded on 12 apostles)--remember in 1 Nephi, how a bad church was represented by a bad woman, a whore? This heavenly woman is the true church.” President Joseph Fielding Smith

Rev. 12:2--”and she being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered” this child which the woman carried is the priesthood which would soon come forth.

Rev. 12:5--”and she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.” The priesthood came forth, who was to rule all nations with the word of God, but it was taken from the earth into the heavens.

Rev. 12:6-- “and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days” and the church flew into the wilderness, or was taken from the earth, to remain there for a thousand two hundred and threescore years. Adding 570 (the year of the desolate abomination) and 1260, we obtain 1830, the year of the restoration of the church.

Rev. 12:13--”and when the dragon (satan) saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (the church) which brought forth the man child (the priesthood). And to the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”

Several other translations of the Bible, including the Living Bible refer to these times as 3 and a half years. A Jewish time, or year is consisted of 360 days. Assuming that times means 2, then time, times and half a time would be three and a half years. 3.5 x 360=1260 days....the same time period mentioned earlier, which if added to 570 A.D. is again 1830

Rev. 13:5--”and there was given unto him (satan) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months” power was given unto the beast for 42 months. A Jewish month has 30 days. 30 x 42 = 1260 days or years, this is

the same time period mentioned twice earlier and again comes to 1830.

D/C 5:14--”and to none else will I grant this power, to receive this same testimony among this generation, in this, the beginning of the rising up an coming forth of my church out of the wilderness clear as the moon, and fair as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners.” This revelation was given in March 1829, two months before the restoration of the priesthood, and a year and a month before the restoration of the Church.

D/C 33:5--and verily, verily, I say unto you, that this church have I established and called forth out of the wilderness.” This was given in Oct. 1830. Six months after the restoration.

[Abraham]

Please remember this is the Book of Revelation not Revelations as mistyped so many times in the above posts (sorry to be so picky) I guess it is a case of typoglacymia hee hee. Not only is it grammatically correct, this book of the NT is the Revelation of Jesus Christ not John! (See Rev. 1:1). This revelation was shared with John, not John's revelation. Many think this is straining at a gnat but if we called the book of Acts the book of Act, or the Book John as the Book of Johns it would not make any sense.

Also, the term John the Divine is a misnomer since Divine should not be an adjective and is not in the Septuagint (Greek). It should be a noun and much better translated as John the Diviner. You can see thsi is much more accurate.

Just some fun facts to consider. One more thing. The symbolism used is for our benefit of course, they do not lend themselves to artitisic depictions of beasts with many heads etc. Artists renditions, in my opinion just serve to confuse the issue. Many experts have stated the same.

Regards,

Abraham