What Utah Is Really Like.

[cedar]

I just wanted us to talk about what Utah is like. We all know this place has the best snow and nice weather in the summer, but they are many generalizations about the people there that are really off. So I will start with one. Elinz asked about what Provo was like. She said, "but I thought it was 90% Mormon?" For those of you who have lived in Utah, let us hear your input.

[Guest Starsky]

Elinz...I thought you were a guy....

As a resident of Utah, I find that I really don't know who is Mormon or not unless they are in my imediate area and go to my ward or stake.

So How am I supposed to tell the nons from the mormons? I remember back when I was having my girls...I could have sworn my DR was a Mormon. But when I finally got up the guts to ask...he said he was Lutheran.

How are we supposed to tell?

[Guest CharmlessMan]

I agree with Peace. I moved to Utah 4 years ago and just presumed that just about everyone would be LDS. I thought everyone I worked with were LDS (except for my one firend who is very loud about the fact she is Catholic and I love her for being so outspoken about EVERYTHING not just her religious beliefs). But as I worked there longer and longer I found that I couldn't have been more wrong. In my department now we have 19 people. 11 of those are LDS, and only 5 of us are actually active. Who knows, or cares which people are LDS and which are not. My next door neighbour isn't LDS. He sits on his porch to have his cigarettes at night. He is a great guy and I like talking to him, even if he only understands half of what I say. I think certain non-members or probably more so with less active members are bothered about who is LDS and who is not. At work of my three closest friends (who I have lunch with most days) 2 are less active members (one of whom really doens't know much about the church and stopped going when she was about 14) and the other is a Catholic. They accept me, and think I am "pretty cool and fun... for a Mormon".

Anyway I think I had a point in all my ramblings. If someone sees it could they please point it out to me.

[Guest Starsky]

Your point ....LOL I think it was...who can tell who is mormon and who cares anyway....

I loved your ramblings!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Bad drivers. Lots of bad drivers.

[elinz]

Since I'm originally from California if even 50% of the

population is LDS that's fine with me.

In the area I lived the percentage was less than 1%.

(which is discouraging in itself)

[Guest lt]

Elinz,

Where are you coming from?

[elinz]

Now, Missouri within 10 miles of the Temple lot.

But in California (third generation) I was from

the San Francisco Bay Area. I grew up in

Orinda. I owned a house in Walnut Creek.

It's perfect weather, but it's gotten so crowded

and the prices are so high that it was no longer

worth it. I was there for the first 40 years of my

life. (that's enough)

Don't even think of living there unless you have

a million dollars. You need that to buy a decent

house. My "shack" sold for $475K!

And the people are very materialistic too.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 18 2004, 04:55 PM

But in California (third generation) I was from

the San Francisco Bay Area. I grew up in

Orinda. I owned a house in Walnut Creek.

I grew up in Los Gatos. Where is Orinda?

[Guest CharmlessMan]

Now, Missouri within 10 miles of the Temple lot.

That is awesome. I love the St Louis temple. Heather and I got the chance to visit St Louis a few months ago and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life (kinda says more about my life than it does about St Louis though lol) j/k. I really did like it there and thought it was really cool how it was just right there next to the freeway.

[elinz]

Originally posted by curvette+Feb 18 2004, 06:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Feb 18 2004, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--elinz@Feb 18 2004, 04:55 PM

But in California (third generation) I was from

the San Francisco Bay Area.  I grew up in

Orinda.  I owned a house in Walnut Creek.

I grew up in Los Gatos. Where is Orinda?

Between Berkeley and Walnut Creek.

Just on the other side of the tunnel.

[elinz]

Originally posted by CharmlessMan@Feb 18 2004, 06:57 PM

Now, Missouri within 10 miles of the Temple lot.

That is awesome. I love the St Louis temple. Heather and I got the chance to visit St Louis a few months ago and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life (kinda says more about my life than it does about St Louis though lol) j/k. I really did like it there and thought it was really cool how it was just right there next to the freeway.

The Temple Lot is just a big lawn.

There's a visitors center, but that's it.

The "Reformed" Church has some big temples

nearby. And every other church you can imagine

has built there too.

Now THAT'S funny...

[Jenda]

Originally posted by elinz+Feb 18 2004, 06:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (elinz @ Feb 18 2004, 06:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--CharmlessMan@Feb 18 2004, 06:57 PM

Now, Missouri within 10 miles of the Temple lot.

That is awesome. I love the St Louis temple. Heather and I got the chance to visit St Louis a few months ago and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life (kinda says more about my life than it does about St Louis though lol) j/k. I really did like it there and thought it was really cool how it was just right there next to the freeway.

The Temple Lot is just a big lawn.

There's a visitors center, but that's it.

The "Reformed" Church has some big temples

nearby. And every other church you can imagine

has built there too.

Now THAT'S funny...

Ahem. Ahem. That's the "Reorganized" Church.

The LDS have a visitor's center and a stake office on the Temple Lot in Independence.

I wish I lived where you do. That is my dream.

[elinz]

You do know that the weather is terrible here right?

Spring is all rain until August and then the heat and

humidity is so bad you don't want to move.

And it does NOT cool off at night.

No mountains and little snow in winter.

And the people are fat and into vices.

Only the plants like this place...

[Helen Mar Kimball]

Utah has the highest taxes west of Massachusetts & east of California. Including sales tax on food.

I think we still have Mississippi & West Virginia beat out for lowest per capita income. Barely.

Highest levels of bankruptcy & antidepressant use.

Hey, Elinz; why is there so much crime here? Our governor, supreme court & 75% of our state legislature are Republican. You said Liberalism causes crime.

Pretty much all the jobs except working as a Wal Mart clerk have moved to Bangalore or Shenzen. Or some other place where the government thinks you are worthy enough to live your life as you see fit.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 18 2004, 08:31 PM

You do know that the weather is terrible here right?

Spring is all rain until August and then the heat and

humidity is so bad you don't want to move.

And it does NOT cool off at night.

No mountains and little snow in winter.

And the people are fat and into vices.

Only the plants like this place...

I used to live there when I was in college. So, yes I know what it is like there.

God is the one who made Independence, MO the centerplace, and it is where I wish to gather to.

Say, Elinz, do you know Randy Johnson?

[Winnie G]

The state gets what the state votes

[elinz]

Originally posted by Helen Mar Kimball@Feb 18 2004, 10:13 PM

Utah has the highest taxes west of Massachusetts & east of California.  Including sales tax on food. 

I think we still have Mississippi & West Virginia beat out for lowest per capita income.  Barely.

Highest levels of bankruptcy & antidepressant use. 

Hey, Elinz; why is there so much crime here?  Our governor, supreme court & 75% of our state legislature are Republican.  You said Liberalism causes crime.

Pretty much all the jobs except working as a Wal Mart clerk have moved to Bangalore or Shenzen.  Or some other place where the government thinks you are worthy enough to live your life as you see fit.

The overall cost of living index for utah is about average, so the

taxes might seem high, but the core price is good. (try buying

gas in California )

Income is low because you have about the lowest average age

of any state. (something like 23 years old) Kids don't tend to

have high paying jobs.

Bankruptcy is often a result of immature spending behavior.

People go crazy with the credit card. Not a good thing to be

addicted to, but being a shop-a-holic is just another of the

many sins you can fall into. I wonder what the average age

of bankruptcy filings is?

The antidepressant addiction is a problem. This seems to me to

be a Word of Wisdom issue that the Church needs to address.

Just because you've avoided all the other addictions doesn't

mean you can't get hooked on another. Drug are drugs.

Salt Lake City has the highest percentage of Non-Mormons in

the state and also the highest percentage of Mexicans. So as

a consequence the crime rate is very high. But the overall state

statistics are still good. If you study it you will see that as the

percentage of Mormon density increases the crime goes down.

(Note: My car was nearly stolen by an Russian organized crime

ring running out of Salt Lake City. Fortunately they were so

dumb I could hear them talking so I managed to get away

before they pulled it off)

The job picture will begin to pick up over the next few years.

The bubble of the late 1990's was so big that it takes a while

for things to recover after it popped. It's just the business

cycle.

The bigger they are they are harder they fall!

[elinz]

Originally posted by Jenda@Feb 18 2004, 10:15 PM

God is the one who made Independence, MO the centerplace, and it is where I wish to gather to.

Say, Elinz, do you know Randy Johnson?

Sorry, I don't know Randy.

This place could be a paradise (sort of) if the people

were better.

So maybe it will happen one day.

But for now the folks here love their beer, sleeping

around, and overeating.

And they still don't like Mormons...

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by elinz+Feb 19 2004, 07:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (elinz @ Feb 19 2004, 07:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Helen Mar Kimball@Feb 18 2004, 10:13 PM

Utah has the highest taxes west of Massachusetts & east of California.  Including sales tax on food. 

I think we still have Mississippi & West Virginia beat out for lowest per capita income.  Barely.

Highest levels of bankruptcy & antidepressant use. 

Hey, Elinz; why is there so much crime here?  Our governor, supreme court & 75% of our state legislature are Republican.  You said Liberalism causes crime.

Pretty much all the jobs except working as a Wal Mart clerk have moved to Bangalore or Shenzen.  Or some other place where the government thinks you are worthy enough to live your life as you see fit.

The overall cost of living index for utah is about average, so the

taxes might seem high, but the core price is good. (try buying

gas in California )

Income is low because you have about the lowest average age

of any state. (something like 23 years old) Kids don't tend to

have high paying jobs.

Bankruptcy is often a result of immature spending behavior.

People go crazy with the credit card. Not a good thing to be

addicted to, but being a shop-a-holic is just another of the

many sins you can fall into. I wonder what the average age

of bankruptcy filings is?

The antidepressant addiction is a problem. This seems to me to

be a Word of Wisdom issue that the Church needs to address.

Just because you've avoided all the other addictions doesn't

mean you can't get hooked on another. Drug are drugs.

Salt Lake City has the highest percentage of Non-Mormons in

the state and also the highest percentage of Mexicans. So as

a consequence the crime rate is very high. But the overall state

statistics are still good. If you study it you will see that as the

percentage of Mormon density increases the crime goes down.

(Note: My car was nearly stolen by an Russian organized crime

ring running out of Salt Lake City. Fortunately they were so

dumb I could hear them talking so I managed to get away

before they pulled it off)

The job picture will begin to pick up over the next few years.

The bubble of the late 1990's was so big that it takes a while

for things to recover after it popped. It's just the business

cycle.

The bigger they are they are harder they fall!

Helen and Elinz,

Consider the fact that most here in Utah are addicted first to TV and then to all other drugs....

A women gets all of her kids off to school and sits down and watches tv while her machines are doing the dishes and laundry. She has nothing constructive to do....but she is at home when the kids come home and dinner is on the table...and that dinner took all of 1 hour to fix. Then her husband comes into the family room after dinner as does her kids and they all sit down and veg out...(maybe they all go to there own rooms and watch there own tv programs.... Or it is just one single little old lady or gent who has nothing else but tv to keep them intertained....

Then there are two more groups to consider...one where the mother and father are working extra jobs to pay the bills and the kids are left with video games and tv to get through.... Or because of divorce the step kids and step parents aren't getting along and the kids and parents need drugs to mentally cope....

These are the ones I see going into debt, taking anti-depresents, etc...

But those who are living healthy, and busy lives....putting their families first, not society or church programs....don't need the drugs and can and do control their spending...

I have to agree with the problem of Mexicans here. Not only are the mostly the ones flashed out on the news for committing crimes, but they take all the teens jobs in the fast food and grocery stores. It leaves the teens with nothing constructive to do and no money.

[elinz]

And I'd add that if the tv were used in a more positive

way like with shows like "Joan of Arcadia" it would help.

Too much of the programming makes people feel bad

because it portrays life as a series of one liners. And

most of the jokes imply that people need to do the

wrong thing and get into deeper trouble.

Liberalism is poison and it makes people depressed.

It's time to take the media back!

There is a desperate need for LDS based programming.

What about a situation comedy that covers the life of

someone at BYU?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by elinz@Feb 19 2004, 09:56 AM

And I'd add that if the tv were used in a more positive

way like with shows like "Joan of Arcadia" it would help.

Too much of the programming makes people feel bad

because it portrays life as a series of one liners. And

most of the jokes imply that people need to do the

wrong thing and get into deeper trouble.

Liberalism is poison and it makes people depressed.

It's time to take the media back!

There is a desperate need for LDS based programming.

What about a situation comedy that covers the life of

someone at BYU?

It isn't just the programming...there is subliminal messaging....even here on the net...my son had a situation on the net that showed that when the computers are in use there is a message for the military...Join the military....message being blipt accross the screen.

The TVs have been doing the same thing....eat ...eat... eat... or sit and don't move, or you are only happy when you are here watching tv...kind of stuff.

There was a documentary on it on PBS about two years ago.

[Winnie G]

You remove the church from the equation and it sounds like life in every day North America.

So what’s the point here really?

Utah is like most places it’s just the church factor that makes it different and that is slowly leaving the equation.

[elinz]

Are you responding to anything? It's hard to tell...

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Feb 19 2004, 03:08 PM

You remove the church from the equation and it sounds like life in every day North America.

So what’s the point here really?

Utah is like most places it’s just the church factor that makes it different and that is slowly leaving the equation.

Really, the church tries, but it can't be everywhere,...and I think many of their programs just aren't meeting the real needs. They looked good on paper, but they really aren't 'feeding' the spiritual need.

I don't mean to sound critical, but HT and VT can become so about numbers...and list checking...

and the scouting program only works when you have a really good leader...which is hard to find these days..