No Wedding For Me

[NOWED4ME]

My niece is LDS and getting married soon. We are non-LDS and are very hurt by the Mormon Church. I take it that non-Mormons are unworthy to step inside a temple.

You send your missionaries to our doors and we invite you in our homes....we want to enter your house of worship and you shut us out. Why?

Do you think when you get to Heaven and God is standing before you that he will ask you why didn't you welcome everyone into your home, as I welcome everyone into mine?

It doesn't matter what road you take...it's the direction you are headed that counts.

Please help me understand...because I don't.

[Outshined]

Sounds like you have the wrong idea about the purpose of the Temple. The normal house of worship is the meeting house, where we meet each Sunday.

To enter the Temple we must be worthy, and this keeps a good many Latter-day Saints out as well. If your neice is doing it right, she'll have a reception for non-member family to celebrate, but they can not enter for the sealing ceremony, as it is a sacred place.

Learn about the LDS faith here: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons

And about Temples in particular here: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/temples/index.htm

Also check out these articles: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/t...commend_why.htm

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/t...ealings_EOM.htm

Hope that gives you some perspective on the subject. :)

[BenRaines]

Our houses of worship, our chapels, are open to all members of Latter-Day Saint church or not. All have an open invitation on the front of the building. Our temples are sacred and holy sites. Only those that have done what the Lord has asked of them and been found worthy by those having that responsibility are allowed to enter. Not only are non members not allowed in but many who are baptized Latter-Day Saints do not enter. What happens in the temple is not secret but sacred and must be kept that way.

There are many who have hurt feelings including my parents at one time as they were not ready to attend the temple when it was time for me to marry. At the same time they respected my wishes and were supportive of my marriage in the temple.

[NOWED4ME]

Originally posted by Outshined@Nov 11 2005, 08:05 PM

Sounds like you have the wrong idea about the purpose of the Temple. The normal house of worship is the meeting house, where we meet each Sunday.

To enter the Temple we must be worthy, and this keeps a good many Latter-day Saints out as well. If your neice is doing it right, she'll have a reception for non-member family to celebrate, but they can not enter for the sealing ceremony, as it is a sacred place.

Learn about the LDS faith here: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons

And about Temples in particular here: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/temples/index.htm

Also check out these articles: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/t...commend_why.htm

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/t...ealings_EOM.htm

Hope that gives you some perspective on the subject. :)

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[Outshined]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Nov 11 2005, 09:09 PM

Our houses of worship, our chapels, are open to all members of Latter-Day Saint church or not. All have an open invitation on the front of the building.  Our temples are sacred and holy sites.  Only those that have done what the Lord has asked of them and been found worthy by those having that responsibility are allowed to enter.  Not only are non members not allowed in but many who are baptized Latter-Day Saints do not enter.  What happens in the temple is not secret but sacred and must be kept that way.

There are many who have hurt feelings including my parents at one time as they were not ready to attend the temple when it was time for me to marry.  At the same time they respected my wishes and were supportive of my marriage in the temple.

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Nice answer!

[Laureltree]

Truly truly...If your niece and her family really cared what there non-member family thought they would have set up an additional ceremony at the church for non-members....where they could exchange vows...I know because I did, and everyone I know who has non-member family do it out of courtesy..It has nothing to do with the church....I would tell your niece how you feel and ask her if she can do this for you, explain how important it is to you....

[NOWED4ME]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Nov 11 2005, 08:09 PM

Our houses of worship, our chapels, are open to all members of Latter-Day Saint church or not. All have an open invitation on the front of the building.  Our temples are sacred and holy sites.  Only those that have done what the Lord has asked of them and been found worthy by those having that responsibility are allowed to enter.  Not only are non members not allowed in but many who are baptized Latter-Day Saints do not enter.  What happens in the temple is not secret but sacred and must be kept that way.

There are many who have hurt feelings including my parents at one time as they were not ready to attend the temple when it was time for me to marry.  At the same time they respected my wishes and were supportive of my marriage in the temple.

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[BenRaines]

This is just a personal opinion but to have a civil mock ceremony so that non members can see wedding vows exchanged can detract from the sacredness of the temple wedding.

I also think that big receptions with 10 bridesmaids and a bunch of escorts is something to be left to civil weddings.

In speaking with the matron of our temple she says that the biggest problem is not with the brides but with the brides mothers who are trying to have a grand wedding that they did not themselves have. :)

[NOWED4ME]

Truthfully, who decides who is worthy and who isn't? Isn't that God's decision and not man's?

My niece is opting for a small ceremony so it's not a "thing" about having 10 bridesmaids. It's the opportunity for her father to walk her down the aisle in the presence of God, family and friends and all join in the celebration of her wedding vows.

So now my brother who has raised an adorable, wonderful daughter is going to be standing outside the temple as she is married.

I have the utmost respect for your beliefs...but I question this one. Is there something in the bible that says anything about this?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by NOWED4ME@Nov 11 2005, 09:26 PM

Truthfully, who decides who is worthy and who isn't?  Isn't that God's decision and not man's?

My niece is opting for a small ceremony so it's not a "thing" about having 10 bridesmaids.  It's the opportunity for her father to walk her down the aisle in the presence of God, family and friends and all join in the celebration of her wedding vows.

So now my brother who has raised an adorable, wonderful daughter is going to be standing outside the temple as she is married.

I have the utmost respect for your beliefs...but I question this one.  Is there something in the bible that says anything about this?

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The celebration can come any time... the sacred ceramony of sealing... before God is exclusive.

The bible tells little about temples... but much of it was lost... over the centuries...

[Laureltree]

Originally posted by NOWED4ME@Nov 11 2005, 09:26 PM

Truthfully, who decides who is worthy and who isn't?  Isn't that God's decision and not man's?

My niece is opting for a small ceremony so it's not a "thing" about having 10 bridesmaids.  It's the opportunity for her father to walk her down the aisle in the presence of God, family and friends and all join in the celebration of her wedding vows.

So now my brother who has raised an adorable, wonderful daughter is going to be standing outside the temple as she is married.

I have the utmost respect for your beliefs...but I question this one.  Is there something in the bible that says anything about this?

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I explained what you could do if it meant that much....As for detracting from the temple....I married my husband as the only member in my family, so do I think it's ok to have a "small" civil ceremony...YES! I don't think the lord will shame her for showing her father love. To me this might actually bring him closer to wanting to work on himself and give him a desire to change.

My dad is a non-member .. through out my life I lived by example and because of my example and my willingness to make him feel apart of my life, he has quit smoking recently and drinking coffee. Change takes place through all actions of love and kindness.....................

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Laureltree+Nov 11 2005, 09:36 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-NOWED4ME@Nov 11 2005, 09:26 PM

Truthfully, who decides who is worthy and who isn't?  Isn't that God's decision and not man's?

My niece is opting for a small ceremony so it's not a "thing" about having 10 bridesmaids.  It's the opportunity for her father to walk her down the aisle in the presence of God, family and friends and all join in the celebration of her wedding vows.

So now my brother who has raised an adorable, wonderful daughter is going to be standing outside the temple as she is married.

I have the utmost respect for your beliefs...but I question this one.  Is there something in the bible that says anything about this?

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I explained what you could do if it meant that much....As for detracting from the temple....I married my husband as the only member in my family, so do I think it's ok to have a "small" civil ceremony...YES! I don't think the lord will shame her for showing her father love. To me this might actually bring him closer to wanting to work on himself and give him a desire to change.

My dad is a non-member .. through out my life I lived by example and because of my example and my willingness to make him feel apart of my life, he has quit smoking recently and drinking coffee. Change takes place through all actions of love and kindness.....................

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Fabulous! :)

[Guest Sput]

My opinion is the day is not about you. Its about your niece. The sealing is between her and her husband and our Heavenly Father. The few ppl that are there are not really used for anything. If she wants to be married in the temple you should celebrate that she has taken sacred covenants upon herself that will make her a better person then she allready is and become closer to our heavenly father. The reception is where the real fun starts why not just make the best of it. Getting so wrapped up in yourself not being able to enter sacred LDS areas in the temple kinda takes away the meaning of her sealing. And as you say who says who is worthy to enter the temple well God does he set the rules not us. He set the standards and thats that For God Shall Not Be Mocked.

[NOWED4ME]

Sorry Laureltree,

I don't agree, it's just not the same (it's (a cermony) after the fact).

My brother raised my niece by example He doesn't drink caffiene and has never smoked. He loves his wife, he has raised two wonderful children. So I don't think he has any working to do on himself as you suggested. Or does he need to change. He's a great dad, a great brother a great person!

I guess we just have to disagree.

God Bless...

[NOWED4ME]

Sput...

Who is mocking? I am certainly not. Why are you getting defensive? I am here to learn. You send your missionaries to my door to teach and I am coming to you to learn. I think you are approaching it all wrong.

If the roles were reversed and your daughter wanted to get married..somewhere else, how would you feel and the doors were shut on you? How would you feel?

Truth?

It's just a simple question....

[Guest Sput]

I'm not defensive at all. The reason why he set the rules is cause For God Shall Not Be Mocked. I say to the contrary you are defensive about being "excluded". I didn't get to enter both of my sisters sealing cause I wasn't worthy. It wasn't the church's fault i wasn't worthy. It was my fault. Think outside your box and look into hers. She is doing something far more beautiful then a just a civil ceremony. Respect her for making a much harder decision (that most of her family members will miss out on the sealing) then just going to a justice of the peace.

[lisajo]

Originally posted by NOWED4ME@Nov 11 2005, 08:09 PM

Sput...

Who is mocking? I am certainly not.  Why are you getting defensive?  I am here to learn.  You send your missionaries to my door to teach and I am coming to you to learn.  I think you are approaching it all wrong. 

If the roles were reversed and your daughter wanted to get married..somewhere else, how would you feel and the doors were shut on you?  How would you feel?

Truth?

It's just a simple question....

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What i gather form you is that you want your niece to change her life for you! After all this is her wedding and her life.....she should be able to do what she wants..... After all you should be happy for her and not whine about what your missing.....A dad should understand .........after all even if he does not walk her down the isle She is still his daughter

[TXRed]

NOWED4ME.

I understand your questions, and I think I understand your feelings. That is, the best I can since I haven't actually gone through that. No, wait a minute. . . . . . shoot, I have gone through that. I'll explain that later. :)

You asked how we would feel if we were left standing outside, and I thought to myself that I would feel pretty lousy. I have actually given this subject an awful lot of consideration since I am a convert, and I knew that if my children were married in the Temple, my dad would be extremely upset that he (as a non member) would not be able to attend.

What I finally realized was that I believe with all my heart that being married in the Temple is something sooooooooooooooo special and sacred that even if I can not be there, that is the place that I wanted my children to be married in.

For me, the idea of being married in the Temple is a very big part of my religious belief, and it is probably the reason that your niece chooses to be married there.

She's not trying to hurt anyone in particular, she is just trying to make her wedding day the most special that she feels it can be for her. Apparently, her future husband has the same feelings.

The typical wedding is for others to be with the couple on their special day and to celebrate with them. In the states, our tradition has the father of the bride walking her down the aisle; so most of us expect that. The truth is that weddings can be any way you want them to and should be the way the bride & groom want theirs to be.

My father walked me down the aisle, my mother and I worked together to make the plans for my wedding, and my relatives and friends were in attendance. Some of my family (cousins who were in attendance) wanted me to change certain things which really hurt my feelings. BTW, I was not LDS at the time.

I am LDS now, and I have been to some weddings in the Temple, and because of that, I wish that my husband and I had been LDS and been married in the Temple. But, that was not the way it was; so my next best wish was that my children would be able to experience what I believe is truly WONDERFUL and very sacred and spiritual. Well, I was disappointed when that did not happen either. So far, four of my children have been through the Temple with their spouses, but it was a while AFTER they were married. I was able to attend several of those which was really great and thrilling when it happened, but I still would have preferred that they had been able to START out their married life with something soooooooooooo special. Just my opinion. (which obviously doesn't count since it was NOT my decision)

It is very easy for us to get our feelings hurt if things are not done the way WE think they should be, but we need to work hard to get over that.

The reception is truly the celebration part. Yes, some LDS couples do decide to have a ring exchange at that time for their family and friends benefit, but that should be ONLY if the Couple wants that. I've head others talk about the fact that doing that somehow "takes away" from the specialness of the Temple marriage. The decision needs to be the couples. The wedding day is truly about them and their desires no matter what the rest of us think they should do.

Back to my promise to explain my first comments. . . . . . . . . . . . .

I was thinking that I really had not been through what you are talking about, but as I began to write, I realized that I actually have. My oldest daughter got married the first time and told us that she did not want us to attend her wedding. (brief explanation: she told her siblings that she did not want us there, but she did not tell us. We were estranged from her at the time, but we kept trying to talk to her and wanted to be allowed to attend; so we approached her personally. She finally told us herself that she did not want us there. Actually, our Bishop had advised us on this approach, because if we did not go to her wedding based on what our other children had told us, that daughter might have held it against us for a long time.)

Anyway, our children were at the wedding, my sister, my husband's father & stepmother, and some of our friends were there. (My daughter was LDS but married a non member and by a justice of the peace instead of a clergyman.) Now, I can tell you . . . . . . . . . yes, it hurt! It hurt a lot! However, it was her decision. . . . . . . it was her wedding . . . . . . and she told us that the reason she did not want us there was because "SHE wanted to be happy". (sheesh, how selfish can you be?)

All of it hurt, but I have grown to realize that my daughter did what SHE felt the need to do for herself. Whether her decision was the right one for her or for us, it was her decision. Now, I have the choice of putting it behind me and going on from here or letting it continue to eat me alive. I choose to go on from here and try not to allow it to eat at me.

I think I'm doing a pretty good job at that, but I have to admit that it has taken some time.

I understand your concern about your brother's feelings, but hopefully, they won't be hurt as much as you think they will be. If the couple is getting married in the Temple, and your brother can not attend, I hope that he is soooooo filled with love for his daughter and her desires that he will go to the Temple and wait outside for them. I've seen others do this, and it was really exciting for all of them to be able to meet on the Temple grounds and have pictures taken together at that time. (It can be a long wait; so I'd take something to read.)

NOWED4ME, you and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers. I will pray that your family will have peace and understanding, but I do also think that you might talk to your niece and receive more peace than any of us here can give you on the subject. Without asking her why she is not allowing y'all to be participants in her wedding, ask her to tell you what going to the Temple means to her.

Consider also that you can participate in other ways of celebrating her marriage by throwing a bridal shower for her. Those are a lot of fun and lets her know that you are happy for her decision to get married. Ask if there is anything you can help with for the reception. You may find that there are ways that she would really love to have you participate.

Peace,

TXRed

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Nov 11 2005, 08:14 PM

This is just a personal opinion but to have a civil mock ceremony so that non members can see wedding vows exchanged can detract from the sacredness of the temple wedding.

I also think that big receptions with 10 bridesmaids and a bunch of escorts is something to be left to civil weddings.

In speaking with the matron of our temple she says that the biggest problem is not with the brides but with the brides mothers who are trying to have a grand wedding that they did not themselves have. :)

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BIZ: How, specifically, can it "detract" one iota of sacredness from the temple ritual, eh?

Maybe the "problem" is that temple marriages are exclusionary, when a wedding should be inclusive of everyone that supports the bridal couple AND an opportunity for family and friends to witness the joining of two people and families AND a time of celebration that should bring people together, NOT leave them out in the cold because they are not "worthy".

tsk tsk

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by bizabra+Nov 12 2005, 01:36 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-BenRaines@Nov 11 2005, 08:14 PM

This is just a personal opinion but to have a civil mock ceremony so that non members can see wedding vows exchanged can detract from the sacredness of the temple wedding.

I also think that big receptions with 10 bridesmaids and a bunch of escorts is something to be left to civil weddings.

In speaking with the matron of our temple she says that the biggest problem is not with the brides but with the brides mothers who are trying to have a grand wedding that they did not themselves have. :)

←

BIZ: How, specifically, can it "detract" one iota of sacredness from the temple ritual, eh?

Maybe the "problem" is that temple marriages are exclusionary, when a wedding should be inclusive of everyone that supports the bridal couple AND an opportunity for family and friends to witness the joining of two people and families AND a time of celebration that should bring people together, NOT leave them out in the cold because they are not "worthy".

tsk tsk

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The wedding thing is way blown out of perportion... more people elope than go to the temple... in the world in general..

It is just because it is the LDS that have a few going to the temple without non-member families... that they have to make such a big issue out of THE WEDDING. They just use it to slam the church or to try and force the church to change... jerks

Now... I had two of my older sisters elope.... from our wonderful LDS family.... and later get sealed in the temple... our family was not at either ceremony... and no one minded... in the least...

THE WEDDING... is not for the family.... it is for the couple.... geeze

I have seen families divided over THE WEDDING... because the girl getting married wasn't being given the wedding she wanted... Her mother saw it as HER CHANCE TO DO A WEDDING HER WAY..... so it was for the mother....

If you want to complain about THE WEDDING... you can't just pick the church as your target.... because it just doesn't cover the real problem...

[Guest bizabra]

Yes, I agree, selfishness abounds. But I stand by my statement that weddings should be occasions of joyful celebration that include family and friends from the couples community. But, I believe that folks should be free to have the marriage they want, and to heck with what anyone else thinks or feels, even if it sows seeds of discord. Just be prepared to live with the consequences, that's all I have to say about it.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:23 PM

Yes, I agree, selfishness abounds.  But I stand by my statement that weddings should be occasions of joyful celebration that include family and friends from the couples community.  But, I believe that folks should be free to have the marriage they want, and to heck with what anyone else thinks or feels, even if it sows seeds of discord. Just be prepared to live with the consequences, that's all I have to say about it.

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I agree... my wedding was a mess... and I resented my mother and in-laws for it for years.. I still wish I had just eloped... LOL

[Guest Sput]

Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:23 PM

Yes, I agree, selfishness abounds.  But I stand by my statement that weddings should be occasions of joyful celebration that include family and friends from the couples community.  But, I believe that folks should be free to have the marriage they want, and to heck with what anyone else thinks or feels, even if it sows seeds of discord. Just be prepared to live with the consequences, that's all I have to say about it.

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It is joyful to the couple unless you get selfish ppl that kick and cry when they are not getting their way. That in my opinion is what ruins weddings. Sometimes I wish noone was allowed into the sealings so the true meaning of sealing the couple for time and eternity can be focused on, and not on the ones that cant get in with you. During my sealing i couldnt focus to much. It was a long day. So I went back to do sealings with my sister and wow it hit me like a ton of bricks.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Sput+Nov 12 2005, 12:47 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:23 PM

Yes, I agree, selfishness abounds.  But I stand by my statement that weddings should be occasions of joyful celebration that include family and friends from the couples community.  But, I believe that folks should be free to have the marriage they want, and to heck with what anyone else thinks or feels, even if it sows seeds of discord. Just be prepared to live with the consequences, that's all I have to say about it.

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It is joyful to the couple unless you get selfish ppl that kick and cry when they are not getting their way. That in my opinion is what ruins weddings. Sometimes I wish noone was allowed into the sealings so the true meaning of sealing the couple for time and eternity can be focused on, and not on the ones that cant get in with you. During my sealing i couldnt focus to much. It was a long day. So I went back to do sealings with my sister and wow it hit me like a ton of bricks.

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I know weddings have really gotten out of hand these days... the vows come last in what is important... sad day we live in...

It is just great... you and your sister were able to go back and experience and re-hear those precious words.... :)

(I don't know of any other religion where couples can go back to the very spot they were married and retake as proxy... those vows of their marriage...)

[Guest bizabra]

Anyone of any religion can re-enact and retake their wedding vows. People do it all the time! I recently went to a 15 year wedding celebration that was a bona-fide wedding ceremony, in the same place and time as the first one, complete with the same wedding dress, bridesmaids, everything.