What's The Point Of Sealing.

[BenRaines]

Jason, I thought that you opened with a great question and created a lively topic today. I do not find it offensive or objectionable. I do think you are caught up in the just for sex thing but oh well.

I think for the most part it has been an excellent discussion.

[Ray]

Originally posted by seamusz+Nov 18 2005, 05:28 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-Jason@Nov 18 2005, 06:05 PM

Sorry everyone, but Im not seeing any advantages of being sealed, vs. living a righteous LDS life.  

You get to say you're still married to your wife.  Ok. Big deal.  What advantage is that exactly?  If it's sex, that's one thing, but if not, who cares?  

The Boyd Packer quote seemed to state that only by sealing will you share god's powers.  Ok, at least that's something.  But in what way do you share god's powers?  Creation?  Keeping evil demons in check?  What? 

Is "sharing" all that great anyway?  No kingdom of your own?  Can you only have your own kingdom if you're sealed?  That would be something.  

What Im saying is there seems to be no advantage to this whole sealing thing.  These sites and speeches offer a whole lot of fluf, but nothing substantial over and above the "single" status in the CK.

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Well, Jason, does it really matter to you anyway? I mean, what is the purpose of this thread for you? Personally, if I had any further insight on the matter that meant a lot to me, there is no way I'd share it here because you might just explain how it all boils down to sex or otherwise debase it. What you consider fluff, I consider very worthwhile. I'd imagine that the Pharisees and Sadducees considered the parables of Christ fluff as well. But that was just cause they couldn't understand them.

If you want to criticize the beliefs that are at the base of the church that is the basis for the existence of this site, do it in the open forum, that is what its there for, isn't it?

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The neat thing about people who oppose the truth is that it gives other people an opportunity to present what the truth to others who are around to hear the discussion. And while that may not help the person who opposes the truth, it does help the people who are listening in, which is why Jason and some other members of this board are an important ingredient to making this website work.

Don't you realize how much more difficult it would be for us to discover the truth if we didn't have people like Satan working for, err, I mean against us?

Heh, even when they try to tear us down, they only make us stronger. :)

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Nov 18 2005, 06:30 PM

I guess we don't understand Please.  Why don't you enlighten us further. 

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I will respond with some questions which inseparably connect dominion and being sealed:

What did Christ do to make us His? And I am

not talking about the atonement.. we were His

before He died.

John 17: 11-12

11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

How are we sealed His?

Mosiah 5: 15

15 Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

How did Adam get given dominion over all things?

Gen. 1: 28

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

What part is played by the Holy Spirit of Promise? Can one

enter the Kingdom without this? Can you gain this without

being sealed?

Eph. 1: 13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

D&C 76: 53

53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

D&C 88: 3

3 Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.

Who is the 2nd comforter?

In the teachings of JS He states it is Jesus Christ.

What does sealed mean when speaking of dominion or stewardships?

D&C 124:

124 First, I give unto you Hyrum Smith to be a patriarch unto you, to hold the sealing blessings of my church, even the Holy Spirit of promise, whereby ye are sealed up unto the day of redemption, that ye may not fall notwithstanding the hour of temptation that may come upon you.

How does one have their calling and election made sure? Is this

necessary for one to enter the Celestial Kingdom?

And what does it have to do with being sealed HIS?and what does this have to do with being begotten of Him?

1 Peter 1:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting bkingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

What is the more sure word of prophecy? How does it relate to

gaining the Celestial Kingdom?

5 (May 17th, 1843.) The more sure word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life, by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood.

How many of these things are required to enter into the Celestial Kingdom and why?

If the endowment of the temple is understood... the preparation is necessary for becoming sealed.... not just given the posibility... but really sealed...

Becoming like God.... is being sealed.... and allows one to enter into the Celestial Kingdom.

Assuring that all who do reach this kingdom are of such a nature as God and would dwell there in peace.

Those who seal their families together guarantees they will eventually be brought to this level of righteousness... (this was said in one of the many quotes in this thread)... only son's of perdition are excluded from the list of those who will eventually be brought into the kingdom of God... to dwell with Him...

If we are not sealed HIS.... with the Holy Spirit of Promise, receiving our calling and election made sure... we will be ones who are very greatful for the 'sealing' power received in the temples of God... because that will be our 'salvation' from our own lack of spiritual progress here on earth.

Without this sealing.... one cannot.... will not be received into the Celestial Kingdom to dwell and have dominions never ending with God.

Sealing is the power of dominion... and dominion is what Godhood is all about, what reaching the Celestial Kingdom is about.

Everyone who reaches the Celestial Kingdom will be given a dominion through the sealing.

So lets say someone goes to the CK without being sealed to anyone... like a baby dying who has no family in the church that we know of... will it be long before that child is brought into a worthy family... sealed through geneology and temple work?

Where is this innocent babe until then? In the CK? Or in paradice?

[Outshined]

I think it's rather clear that one must be sealed to reach the highest glory of the CK, but not the CK itself. Good discussion. B)

[Jason]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Nov 18 2005, 06:46 PM

Jason,  I thought that you opened with a great question and created a lively topic today.  I do not find it offensive or objectionable.  I do think you are caught up in the just for sex thing but oh well.

I think for the most part it has been an excellent discussion.

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Thank you. That was the point anyway, right?

I think it's too bad that there seems to be no serious reasons for justifying sealing, other than obscure promises of power and creation.

I've been focusing on sex because that seems to be the only real, tangible reason for being sealed to one's spouse. And since an omnipotent god/ess shouldn't need to have sex to procreate anyway, it seems to nullify the whole thing.

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 18 2005, 08:47 PM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-BenRaines@Nov 18 2005, 06:46 PM

Jason,  I thought that you opened with a great question and created a lively topic today.  I do not find it offensive or objectionable.  I do think you are caught up in the just for sex thing but oh well.

I think for the most part it has been an excellent discussion.

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Thank you. That was the point anyway, right?

I think it's too bad that there seems to be no serious reasons for justifying sealing, other than obscure promises of power and creation.

I've been focusing on sex because that seems to be the only real, tangible reason for being sealed to one's spouse. And since an omnipotent god/ess shouldn't need to have sex to procreate anyway, it seems to nullify the whole thing.

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You missed it again.

[Jason]

Please feel free to make it clearer. A point by point evaluation would be appreciated. Course, rather than do all that work, you'll probably just blow me off (yet again) and say that it's not worth your time.

Well here's a thought, think of sharing it with the world board and any one who may come in the future and search the old threads. Like Ray said, it gives you an opportunity to discuss and share and hopefully learn.

[Jason]

Ya know Please, your continuous rude behavior, especially when it's uncalled for, has likely turned many a potential investigator away from your church.

It's too bad you're such an unkind woman.

[Jason]

Just so everyone knows that Im not making up the sex "issue" here's LDS Apostle John A. Widsoe's own words:

Sex, which is indispensible on this earth for the perpetuation of the human race, is an eternal quality which has its equivalent everywhere.  It is indestructible.  The relationship between men and women is eternal and must continue eternally.  In accordance with Gospel philosophy there are males and females in heaven.  Since we have a Father, who is our God, we must also have a mother, who possesses the attributes of Godhood.  This simply carries onward the logic of things earthly, and conforms with the doctrine that whatever is on this earth is simply a representation of spiritual conditions of deeper meaning than we can here fathom.  (Widsoe, John A. A Rational Theology, Deseret Book, 1952, p. 69.)

The bolded section conforms to the early Mormon philosophy as taught by Joseph Smith. He learned this from the Occultic source known as the Emerald Tablet of Hermes. The second line of the tablet is as follows: "What is above is like what is below, and what is below is like that which is above." This teaching is embraced by Mormonism as a pillar of truth among it's dogma.

There's nothing wrong with this teaching, but I believe that when looked at from this perspective, it's clear that as children leave the home and the parents are alone, so will it be in heaven. So why bother having children sealed to you?

[Guest Member_Deleted]

Originally posted by Jason@Nov 18 2005, 09:19 PM

Ya know Please, your continuous rude behavior, especially when it's uncalled for, has likely turned many a potential investigator away from your church.

It's too bad you're such an unkind woman.

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Yeah right... you do put on...

[Laureltree]

Guys,

Can we have a meaningful conversation without all the insults to each other?

Do we as adults need a time out? Just wondering?

[Ray]

To give Jason the benefit of the doubt (wherever any exists), and to give other people a better understanding of what it means to be receive the sealing ordinances in a temple, I will now list point by point the benefits I see to being sealed in a temple, for anyone who just can't see it.

And btw, if anyone still does not see it after this, I recommend that they seek professional help from God.

1. The sealing between husband and wife.

This sealing is what most people are familiar with through the concept of what it means to be "married", where one person binds themselves to another person in a partnership agreement that can last throughout life (meaning the life of the mortal body).

The only real difference between the sealing or marriage in a temple is that this bond binds one person to another person in a partnership agreement that can last throughout eternity. A marriage that is not sealed in the temple dissolves upon the death of either spouse because no Man has the authority to dictate how things will be in heaven, unless God has authorized or put His “seal” upon what that Man has done.

And, Jason, while this sealing does have the benefit of allowing two people to righteously enjoy “sex” as husband and wife, being able to have "sex" isn’t the whole point of being thus sealed. Or in other words, living your life with your wife should involve more than being able to enjoy having “sex” with her.

2. The sealing between (husband and wife) and their children.

This sealing is what most people are familiar with through the concept of having a “family’, but the significance of this relationship is often overlooked by people who don’t consider the purpose and benefits of having parents, or children, even though those benefits can easily be recognized upon a little more consideration.

2a. For instance, consider the fact that a (husband and wife) can have people, in and of themselves. Or in other words, consider the fact that a husband and wife can have other "people" in their relationship, all sharing the common bond of being members in the same "family".

And yes, I know that these people usually come into the life of a (husband and wife) through “sex”, but I’m not talking about the benefit of being able to have “sex”. I’m talking about the benefit of being able to have “people”.

2b. The benefit above only refers to the benefit a husband and wife being able to have “people”, or "children", without mentioning the benefits of what it means to have children, and although I won’t be able to go in depth about all of the benefits of having children, I think most people can see at least some benefits to having children, which otherwise would not be enjoyed without those "people".

For instance, one of the benefits to having “people” is that those “people” can have “people”, thus adding even more benefits to the benefit of having “people”.

And btw, just in case nobody has noticed, I am trying to avoid referring to these people as “babies”, because people don’t remain “babies” forever.

Another benefit of having "people' is that those "people" can contribute everything they have and everything to they are to the cause of helping other "people", including the husband and wife. For instance, one of my sons knows a lot about computer hardware and software, so when I have any troubles with the computer, I can call him for his help instead of having to take my computer to a shop where some other people can work on it.

2c. I’d now like you to notice that the benefits of having “people’ is only one of the benefits that come through the sealing between (husband and wife), as I have only been talking about the benefits to the husband and wife, without discussing the benefits to the “people” the (husband and wife) can have.

Or in other words, another benefit to the sealing between (husband and wife) and their children is the fact that children have the benefit of having “people”. And while those “people” are benefits to a (husband and wife), the (husband and wife) are also a benefit to those “people”, which they would otherwise be without.

And I'd also like you to notice that these benefits can also extend to past generations of parents, just as those other benefits can extend to all future generations of people, or children. And for those who can't see it, that's a WHOLE LOT of "people"!

And btw, while some people can enjoy some of these blessings now, they will not be able to enjoy these blessings forever without the blessings of God, because after death these blessings will only be given to people who have received and honored the sealing ordinances in a temple.

[Jason]

Hey Ray, thanks for keeping up on the thread. I sense that people are frustrated with my questions, but perhaps there is no answer to my questions?

Anyway, to your post:

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 21 2005, 02:56 PM

1. The sealing between husband and wife......

And, Jason, while this sealing does have the benefit of allowing two people to righteously enjoy “sex”, that isn’t the whole point of being thus sealed.  Or in other words, living life with a partner involves more than being able to enjoy having “sex” with them.

You're just about where Im trying to get to Ray. The last paragraph of your #1 point is what I'd like to elaborate further on.

Let's create a hypothetical couple. Let's call them Bill and Jane. Now, Bill and Jane were righteous LDS people, who were only married for this life, but not for "eternity".

Now, let's assume that both partners make it to the Celestial Kingdom. What actual benefits would Bill and Jane have being sealed, versus just single people in the CK? We know that they'll be "Angels" instead of "gods". We can assume that they won't get to have sex anymore. And, according to you, they won't have any "people".

Does that about sum it up? Now let's break it down:

Angels instead of gods. Ok, other than the cooler "title" of god/ess, what actual benefit would one have as a god versus an angel?

The sex issue? Well, will it be as good or better in the CK? Or will it be more like the movie "Cocoon" where some erotic light beam will shoot around a pool and hit your target partner?

Having "people"? Is it not possible for "angels" or even "gods" to create people without sex? Seems to me that a being of such power could do so without sex (especially since scientiests can...). Furthermore, must a couple be married to organize these "intelligences" into "sprit children" (as per Parley Pratt)? Is it against Divine Law to impregnate a goddess without copulation?

More? What other benefits could be realized in a sealing union?

Also, I think I've asked before, will Bill and Jane be able to visit with each other? Or will they be punished for not actualizing the sealing ceremony, and therefore be prohibited from visitation?

2. The sealing between (husband and wife) and their children.

This sealing is what most people are familiar with through the concept of having a “family’, but the significance of this relationship is often overlooked by people who don’t understand or consider the purpose and benefits of having parents, or children, even though those benefits can easily be recognized upon a little more consideration.

2a. For instance, consider the fact that a (husband and wife) can have people, in and of themselves.  Or in other words, consider the fact that a husband and wife can have other people in their relationship, all sharing the common bond of being members of the same family.

And yes, I know that these people usually come into the life of a (husband and wife) through “sex”, but I’m not talking about the benefit of being able to have “sex”.  I’m talking about the benefit of being able to have “people”. 

2b.  Up to this point I have only mentioned the benefit a husband and wife being able to have “people”, without mentioning the benefits of what it means to have “people”, and though I won’t be able to go in depth about all of those benefits, I think you should be able to see that there are some benefits to having “people” which otherwise would not be enjoyed without those people. 

For instance, one of the benefits to having “people” is that those “people” can have “people”, thus adding even more benefits to the benefit of having “people”.  And btw, just in case you’ve noticed, I have been avoiding referring to these people as “babies”, because people don’t remain “babies” forever.

2c. I’d now like you to notice that the benefits of having “people’ is only one of the benefits that come through the sealing between (husband and wife), as I have only been talking about the benefits to the husband and wife, without discussing the benefits to the “people” the (husband and wife) can have.

Or in other words, another benefit to the sealing between (husband and wife) and their children is the fact that children have the benefit of having “people”.  And while those “people” are benefits to a (husband and wife), the (husband and wife) are also a benefit to those “people”, which they would otherwise be without.

And btw, I’d also like you to notice that I’ve mainly been discussing the benefits that can come and continue with obedience to God, because while some people may be able to enjoy some of these blessings now, they will not be able to enjoy these blessings forever without the blessings of God, because those blessings will only be given to people after death if they have received and honored the blessings that can only come through the sealing ordinances in a temple.

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So I can agree that having "people" around is a good thing. But is it necessary to create your own people to enjoy the company of your own spouse? Or even as a single person? Would Bill or Jane somehow be unhappy if they were'nt organizing intelligences into spirit babies for all eternity?

[Ray]

Let's create a hypothetical couple. Let's call them Bill and Jane. Now, Bill and Jane were righteous LDS people, who were only married for this life, but not for "eternity".

Now, let's assume that both partners make it to the Celestial Kingdom. What actual benefits would Bill and Jane have being sealed, versus just single people in the CK?

I’ll assume you meant to ask what benefits Bill and Jane would have <not> being sealed, versus single people in the Celestial kingdom, (since you previously stated that Bill and Jane were not “married” for eternity), and will now answer that by saying they only have the blessings that people have who are not married or “sealed” for eternity.

Or in other words, they will not have the benefits that can come only from being “sealed” together to a partner of the opposite gender, living only as single people in the Celestial kingdom.

We know that they'll be "Angels" instead of "gods". We can assume that they won't get to have sex anymore. And, according to you, they won't have any "people".

Does that about sum it up? Now let's break it down:

Yes, that sums it up fairly well. They will be single, not married, living separate and single lives in the Celestial kingdom throughout eternity.

Angels instead of gods. Ok, other than the cooler "title" of god/ess, what actual benefit would one have as a god versus an angel?

I’ll assume that you’re using the word “angel” in this context to refer to people who will never be “sealed” to a partner of the opposite gender, the word “god” to refer to people who will be “sealed” to a partner of the opposite gender, and will now say that the actual benefit the “gods” have that the “angels” do not have is that “gods” will have the benefit of being “sealed” a partner of the opposite gender, and everything that partner can provide, while “angels” will not have such a partner, and will live as single people do.

The sex issue? Well, will it be as good or better in the CK?

Probably as good, maybe better. I don’t see how it could get much better, though.

Or will it be more like the movie "Cocoon" where some erotic light beam will shoot around a pool and hit your target partner?

Thank you for thinking a little bit about this, but I doubt that I would ever want to send my spirit “shooting around a pool and hitting my target partner”, because I can’t imagine wanting to deprive myself of the pleasures and sensations I can only feel with my body.

Having "people"? Is it not possible for "angels" or even "gods" to create people without sex?

Seems to me that a being of such power could do so without sex (especially since scientists can...).

No man or woman can create life, in and of themselves. The act of “procreation” can only create bodies, which can then be inhabited by spirits, but only if God authorizes other spirits to inhabit those bodies.

And btw, if you don’t believe this, consider the fact that men and women often have “sex” without the woman ever getting pregnant, and that a body can be perfectly healthy without any sign of life within it.

Or in other words, life is the spirit, not the body.

Furthermore, must a couple be married to organize these "intelligences" into "spirit children" (as per Parley Pratt)?

Yes, a man and woman must be married <and receive a Celestial glory> if they are ever to create life, otherwise they never will, just as we never will now.

Is it against Divine Law to impregnate a goddess without copulation?

I’ll have to Ask some more about this one.

More? What other benefits could be realized in a sealing union?

I think you should wait until you understand the benefits I’ve already told you about, before you try to discover any more.

Also, I think I've asked before, will Bill and Jane be able to visit with each other?

They may be able to visit each other. I’m not sure.

On one hand, heaven is a very big place (just as big as the universe), but on the other hand, it’s hard to imagine that two people would not be able to run into each other over the course of eternity.

Or will they be punished for not actualizing the sealing ceremony, and therefore be prohibited from visitation?

They won’t be “punished” for not being sealed. They just won’t have that benefit.

Or in case you’ve forgotten what I said earlier, the sealing ordinance is the only method God has authorized for people who want to be bound together through eternity.

And btw, some people have come back (as spirits) asking to be sealed to the ones they love, sometimes saying they can’t find everybody they love on their own. And considering the fact that the spirit world is here on this Earth, in another dimension, it seems as though it will be very difficult to find someone after they have been sent to another place in heaven.

[Jason]

Ray,

I’ll assume you meant to ask what benefits Bill and Jane would have <not> being sealed, versus single people in the Celestial kingdom, (since you previously stated that Bill and Jane were not “married” for eternity), and will now answer that by saying they only have the blessings that people have who are not married or “sealed” for eternity.

Or in other words, they will not have the benefits that can come only from being “sealed” together to a partner of the opposite gender, living only as single people in the Celestial kingdom.

Ok. So the main benefit of a married couple versus a non-married couple is that they can say they're married?

  ...and will now say that the actual benefit the “gods” have that the “angels” do not have is that “gods” will have the benefit of being “sealed” a partner of the opposite gender, and everything that partner can provide, while “angels” will not have such a partner, and will live as single people do.

Ok. So again the main benefit of being a god is that you're married, instead of an Angel who is not?

Probably as good, maybe better. I don’t see how it could get much better, though.

So sex will likely be the same there as here. Ok.

Yes, a man and woman must be married <and receive a Celestial glory> if they are ever to create life, otherwise they never will, just as we never will now.

I disagree. Im quite sure that a "god" could create whatever they wish. Unless god's are not omnipotent as your scriptures state, in which case there seems to be no real advantage to being a god, and your holy writ is null and void.

They may be able to visit each other. I’m not sure.

On one hand, heaven is a very big place (just as big as the universe), but on the other hand, it’s hard to imagine that two people would not be able to run into each other over the course of eternity.

So again, the only tangable benefit of a sealing ceremony is

A: You get a better title. (god vs. angel)

B: You get to tell everyone you're married.

C: You have a magical union of bonding whereby you don't have to wander around and try and find your former earth partner. They're just stuck by your side when you die.

D: You get to create spirit life, not just bodies. (Apparently in some sexual manner.)

E: There are other, non specified benefits of sealing, but they are only speculation (as may be some of the above answers.)

Ray, I hate to say it, but it all comes down to who gets to have some, and who doesn't. That's the only real benefit I can see here. The other "benefits" are minor at best and generally unappealing to many people. I love my wife, but I'd hate to be alone with her for the rest of eternity. It would be very dull. I love my children, but i'd also hate to be alone with them for the rest of eternity. Again, it would be very dull. I'd much rather be able to meet and visit with the billions of people who've lived on this earth, and the untold numbers of people from other galaxies. You'd never be able to meet everyone. NO need to create more people, when there's already more than you could ever know.

[pushka]

Well said Jason...I think the LDS version of families being together for eternity, seems somewhat isolated...maybe I'm just not 'getting it' though...I know Ray did say that they could visit the other levels of the CK if they were from the highest level?

[Jason]

Originally posted by pushka@Nov 22 2005, 11:34 AM

Well said Jason...I think the LDS version of families being together for eternity, seems somewhat isolated...maybe I'm just not 'getting it' though...I know Ray did say that they could visit the other levels of the CK if they were from the highest level?

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Yes. But we're talking about a hypothetical couple who were not sealed, so they would therefore be in the lower CK strata. But they only difference between the higher levels and the lower is as I described above.

There's nothing to suggest that Angels will not participate in Creation (and in fact, the Temple ceremony actually proves that non-gods in fact do participate in creation per the role of Michael the ArchAngel).

As for visitation rights, the saying goes that you can always go down, but you can't go up. So anyone in the CK can go to the Terr or Tele kingdoms, but they cannot go up. Also, the Terr K folks can go to the Tele K, but not vice-versa.

[BenRaines]

I have read before that there is the ability of those in the Celestial Kingdom to visit other kingdoms but that most would not just to visit. Would not want to leave Heavenly Father's presence. I also think that those in the Celestial Kingdom are in one place but with various abilities able to communicate with all in that kingdom but able to do different things.

Those are my thoughts. At the same time more importantly I know that these are not the things to worry about as much as just being worthy to be in the Celestial Kingdom.

[Uncomman]

What are the requirements for entering the Celestial Kingdom?

[Jason]

Originally posted by BenRaines@Nov 22 2005, 11:56 AM

...  At the same time more importantly I know that these are not the things to worry about as much as just being worthy to be in the Celestial Kingdom.

Ben, don't take this the wrong way (this is said by many) but I take that as a cop-out. A weak excuse to avoid looking at the issue, and making an intellectual decision as to what, if any, are the actual benefits of the Celestial Kingdom.

[BenRaines]

Jason, No insult taken. I am just a simple guy. I know what the basics are and what is required to get the job done. What we will be doing there or wherever is not a concern for me. I know that there are others that spend a lifetime worrying about it and are not kind to their fellowman and will be told depart I knew you not.

I try to live my life so that what I believe to be knowledge will be carried out when I die. If I error on the side of being conservative in the way I live and am wrong I still have lived a good life and left it a better place for my having been here.

I do not spend time worrying about whre Kolob is. What will be the state of the Holy Ghost after this world has fulfilled it reason for being. Will the earth be like a star and a glass ball after the rebirth. I work more on living the two great commandments. Love the Lord and love my fellowman.

Call me weak call me simple minded but there are things I don't know and for now feel that they are not necessary to know and walk by faith.

[Ray]

Heh, even though I know that what I’m about to say probably won’t help Jason to understand what I have been trying to share with him, I feel compelled to offer a few more thoughts for consideration.

First, everyone who ever has been or will be born on this planet is a child of God, so the idea that life would be “dull” if we can only visit with our wife and children sounds pretty silly to me, unless someone thinks it would be dull to visit with billions and billions of people, which I do not, so YaY for me. I mean, really, just look and marvel at what people are able to accomplish today!

Secondly, the idea that life as a single person is as full and joyous as life with family seems to be coming from someone who doesn’t fully appreciate the benefits of being married, or of being a child of the parents who gave birth to him.

And btw, when I say parents, I'm referring not only to your Mom and Dad, but also to your grandparents, and great grandparents, and great great grandparents, etc. And when I say children, I'm referring not only to the children you can have yourself, but also to your grandchildren, and great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren, etc.

Have you so quickly forgotten what your life was like before you got married, Jason?

Are you so eager to be without your wife and live your life as a single person again?

And btw, there is no marriage in heaven unless it is performed under the authority of God, and the reason there will be no marriage after the judgment is because everyone will have already been made acquainted with the fact that they must be “sealed” in a temple if they are ever to enjoy that benefit, and the fact that they never accepted that benefit before being sent somewhere else in heaven suggests that they really didn’t want to receive that benefit, otherwise they would have done it.

Or in other words, Jason, I am now telling you that the only way you will ever be able to be married or bound to any woman in heaven is to be sealed to her in a temple and abide by the laws upon which that benefit is contingent, and if you aren’t willing to do that now, what makes you think you will be able to do that later?

And btw, if our Lord sends you to outer darkness because you utterly refused to accept the gospel while knowing full well what the gospel is all about, or if he sends you to another planet all by yourself with no other companion, you will have nobody to blame but yourself because you utterly refused to accept the blessings that can come alone through Him.

Heh, some people truly do not realize what they had and are then missing out on until it is gone.

[Uncomman]

Does anyone know what the requirements to enter the Celetial Kingdom are?

[Ray]

Originally posted by Uncomman@Nov 22 2005, 11:18 AM

What are the requirements for entering the Celestial Kingdom?

←

Complete and total acceptance of the laws and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ, including Repentance when necessary, until you overcome that weakness.

[Uncomman]

correction *Celestial