Ray

Pop quiz: Where do you go to get oil? :)

How would you feel if I simply did that to you, Crimson? I wish you could see you through my eyes. And you know what's funny? I think you wish I could see me through your eyes. Funny, isn't it?

I will apologize for miscommunication. I still love to receive revelations from God even when He chastizes me, but only because I know He does that out of love... and only because I truly love Him. What I love most, above everything, is God. I hope you understand me at least a little better now. And I still don't expect you to agree with me. :)

To be honest, I really don't know much about the signs of His coming. I know certain things will happen, and have already happened, but I'm in suspense about what will happen next. There is a thought I had recently that helped me to see something, though. Our Lord's "second coming" will happen when our Father commands our Lord to come reap the Earth. OIOW, it is all in the hands of our Father. I already knew that before, but I know it even better now. I think it's neat how revelation does that. :) Oh, and here's what I think about the lamp and oil. Without oil, a person has only, at best, an empty lamp. Either that or some other "stuff" in their lamp. But without oil, the lamp won't, and/or can't, give light. Without oil, the lamp won't, and/or can't, burn. And a lamp burning oil radiates light from the lamp... but not enough to light the path for everyone. So each person needs to have their own oil for their lamps. I think it's clear we already have our own lamp. Do you think everyone knows where they can go get some oil? Do you think everyone knows they have a lamp? I would rather not chance it. If anyone doesn't know that, I recommend that you simply ask God.

I can see how you can think that, Almom, but what does personal revelation, all by itself, mean to you? I think revelation from God can be a wonderful thing, but only when God reveals things to me which are wonderful. If I didn't like what God did and does reveal to me, personally, do you think I would like His revelations? It is only because I love God... and I know God loves me... that I love to receive His revelations. :)

I like most of what you are saying here, Traveler, but would you please clarify a few of your statements:"Oil is what makes the lamp work" yet "I (you) think the error is ascribing anything specific as being the oil." "oil is not provided by God or by anyone else. where do you think the oil comes from? You think everyone can't see the oil... they see only the lamps. Are you saying it's impossible to recognize oil?

I can see how you can think that, CrimsonKairos, but what does the apostasy, all by itself, mean to you?I think the apostasy is about what was lost, or forsaken, and it was lost by other people... not you. How would you know what was lost if you never had it? How would you know you lost something you never had? I, personally, value the restoration of truth... the apostasy by itself means nothing to me. It is only by knowing what was actually restored that I can know what was lost, or forsaken, by other people. And btw, one of the things I got for Christmas was a very good book by Hugh Nibley. It's called "Apostles and Bishops in Early Christianity". It has a lot of truth that I know God inspired. :)

I've heard that alot, CrimsonKairos, and a while ago God taught me a better way. God has taught me that God can teach me everything. I don't have to rely on what others say... even if they claim God has taught them what they're claiming.And you, my friend, don't either. You can ask God to know the truth about anything. Yes, that's right, you can ask God, yourself. What are your thoughts, God? What do you say? I can see why you think that, Monica. I once thought I needed to trust what the scriptures say. But I later discovered I only trust the scriptures... any scriptures... when I, personally, know God inspired them.And the way I, personally, know when God has inspired something is to ask God if He inspired that... instead of assuming or jumping to conclusions that might be based on false reasoning. So anytime I want to know the truth about anything, even in words that some claim to be scripture, I simply ask God what He thinks about that. That's why I recommend that you, and all other people, simply ask God to know the truth about anything. :)

It's just a matter of timing, my friend. :)

Heh, thank you. Thinking of that always helps me feel better. :)

Far enough to explain why I stand for the truth, and how I find out what is true.What truths are worth standing for? The ones I really like the very bestest. How do you stand for truth and avoid unrighteous offense? By avoiding unrighteous offenses. Truth vs PC? Gospel vs P(olitically) C(orrect)? What in the world are you talking about? Please illustrate with an example, or something. By trying to point out how you know it is evil... in as nice a way as you and/or I know how.If you see someone doing bad do you have an obligation to step out and do something about it? No... no obligation. It can be a nice thing to do, if you can do it nicely, though. It's never ever wrong to be nice. :) Many evildoers seek out good people to take advantage of. How do you protect the innocent in this PC age without going overboard? I don't think it's the innocent who really need the protection. My goal is to teach others how to know what is good, and to teach them how to teach other people. To what degree do we stand up and risk all? To the degree we feel is required for each specific occasion. Is there a truth worth pushing and fighting for? If so what would you consider them to be? What's the difference between this question and the ones you asked above? My answers: The ones I really like the very bestest, to the degree I feel is required for each occasion. To the degree the "owner" and "moderators" of that site feel is required for each specific occasion. If we don't like the way they do things, or the rules they establish, we can leave or try to make things a little better.Sorry if I'm getting into too sensitive an area or wording it in a non PC way.. I'm just curiously wondering how others grapple with this. I grapple with it by understanding the rules I'm playing under and seeing if I can do anything to make the rules any better. It can be fun... when you like what you're offering.

I agree. It is your assessment of Rosie, or at least her public persona.It is you saying she is "loud" and "offensive". And whether or not other people agree with you is not the point. Now go ahead and tell us what you think it means to be "offensive", Tommy. Are you praising Rosie for being loud and offensive? I don't think so. What has she ever done to offend someone, Tommy? ... and in what way did she actually offend them?

I have an experience to share with all of you. Last night I was thinking more about what I love the most about the gospel, or the good news that I know I have from God. And I was thinking it was nice that we seem to agree, here, about the fact that we love the love from God... and consider that to be the best thing about the gospel. And then I thought, hmmm, it seems so selfish, doesn't it? What we love is the love we receive. It seems to be about us, and what we get from the gospel. But what about God? What does God get? Is it right to think of only what we get from the gospel, or what the gospel can give to us, or to others? What about the "one" who gave us and keeps giving us the gospel? Is it a what, or a who, we should love? Now, while I was thinking I also realized that all "gifts" actually come from a "giver" of those gifts, and the fact that we appreciate all the love we feel from God also shows we do appreciate the "one' who loves us. But I think the change in focus also helped me to see that what I appreciate most is God, Himself... or the love I feel from God would mean nothing. And I think we'll agree I'm not adding a brand new thought here. It is simply another way to think of things.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Theocracy is not only God’s plan for governing His kingdom, but how God governs His kingdom all the time. And btw, here are some definitions of theocracy, pretty much in agreement with mine, you can find at dictionary.com A form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities (or more properly, those with the priesthood). A system of government by priests <strike>claiming</strike> who have a divine commission. A government ruled by or subject to religious authority. (as in the Church) A political unit governed by a deity (or by officials <strike>thought to be</strike> who are actually divinely guided) The belief in government by divine guidance (or the knowledge that God’s government is) A nation or state (or kingdom) in which the clergy (OIOW, those with the priesthood) exercise political power and in which religious law is <strike>dominant over</strike> superior to civil law... OIOW, the laws of God are better than Man's laws... Man's laws are not as perfect as God's laws A word first used by Josephus to denote that the Jews were under the direct government of God himself. The nation was in all things subject to the will of their invisible King. All the people were the servants of Jehovah, who ruled over their public and private affairs, communicating to them his will through the medium of the prophets. They were the subjects of a heavenly, <strike>not of</strike> as well as an earthly, king. They were Jehovah's own subjects, ruled directly by Him. (comp. 1 Sam. 8:6-9). And btw, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is now governed by theocracy, and it always will be, forever... even if it is called by another name later.

Letting Ray play with democracy might be a little like letting Kim Jong Il (the 'Dear Leader' of North Korea) play with nukes. It might be, but then again, I might also play nice. :) Even if you did "this time"--you'd always be a loose canon, hermano. If you're saying I could always choose how to act, at any time, yes, indeed, prisonchaplain, you're right. It's not just His plan, it's the way He works all the time. We're only here now to see where we're going. :)

So, how about you. Which church teaching touches you the most? Which do you find compelling or fascinating? You went from...... sharing what you think distinguishes the COJCLDS from other churches or groups of people... ... to saying you thought that teaching was the most important teaching to us (LDS)... ... to asking what teaching touches me (and other LDS) the most... (my answer: the love of God) ... to asking what I (and other LDS) find compelling or fascinating. (my answer is, again: the love of God) So, how about you? What teaching of the gospel touches you, personally, Tommy? What do you find compelling or fascinating?

Letting Ray play with democracy might be a little like letting Kim Jong Il (the 'Dear Leader' of North Korea) play with nukes. It might be, but then again, I might also play nice. :)

< < < Ray, have you tried Pero? I grew up drinking coffee - as soon as I was weaned off the bottle of milk, I started drinking coffee. I love it. Postum tastes like burnt and scorched coffee - yet Pero only tastes that way if you use too much in a cup. Pero is way cheaper too. I pay $5.24 for a 7 oz. canister and you get 130-135 servings. http://www.internaturalfoods.com/Pero/Pero.html I tried Pero, once. A friend gave me some to try. I didn't like it as much as I like Postum. ... maybe because I prefer the taste of burnt and scorched coffee ... or a more "rich, full-bodied taste".

Give me liberty, or give me death! Democracy is like a toy, to be played with.

If I didn't have or know about what is called the "word of wisdom", and instead I only heard from some doctors, or some other people who say the same thing, I would definitely be drinking other things. I enjoyed beer and wine, and even hard liquors, before I became a member of the Church. And I also enjoyed coffee, and tea, occasionally. And in fact, I still enjoy the "soft" versions. I started drinking Postem, and still drink it a lot, because I really missed the good flavors of coffee. Postem isn't as good, at least not in flavor, but it's close enough to satisfy me. I also drink an O'douls, when I really miss beer, and I would still enjoy a beer, on occasion. I haven't found a good substitute for the the flavor of wine, yet, and for now I simply settle for grape juice. Oh, and I've never really cared for the taste of tobacco. I think a smoking pipe can smell good, though. :)

What gives you that impression, Jason? Personally, I believe it is stressed even more. We (LDS) do, and teach others to do, everything our Lord tells us to do. Different understanding of Lordship. It is my experience that Mormons do not view Jesus in the same light as Evangelicals. Mormon understanding is more of an Elder Brother than a Lord. The fact that we believe Jesus is our Lord does not detract from our belief he is also our elder brother. And the fact that we believe that Jesus is our elder brother does not detract from our belief he is our father. We believe Jesus is the father of everyone who is "born again" through him, as our Savior. That is a part of what it means to take his name. And we also believe that each one of our fathers was also a brother in heaven. Many things are often AND as well as an OR. Try not to be so limited, Jason.

What gives you that impression, Jason?Personally, I believe it is stressed even more. We (LDS) do, and teach others to do, everything our Lord tells us to do.

What Jason told you is correct, concerning our (LDS) beliefs. And by saying your belief is fine I am guessing that he meant you can believe what you want to believe.

To say that something is "unauthorized" simply means that thing (whatever it is) is not authorized. It doesn't mean it's a bad thing, necessarily. And it doesn't mean that you shouldn't do that. It just means that that thing is not authorized, specifically. And that really doesn't tell you that much. What you need to know is what IS authorized, or the difference between good and evil. ... and to know that you should simply ask God what is right ... even when what you hear is coming from your husband Authority can be both good and bad, too. And I think we should do only what we know is good. ... and as a wife you should follow your husband's counsel only as he follows the counsel of God And btw, the Church doesn't authorize, or give me the authority, to tell you what I think about this issue. Everything I have just told you is not authorized by the Church. But it still might be right, and good.

Maybe you are a bondservant of your generator, whereas I enjoy the freedom of the natural light candles offer. Now you're just being silly. The generator is my servant... and just for backup. But go ahead and think what you want.