Creation From Pre-Existing Matter

[Jason_J]

One of the unique beliefs of the LDS faith is the belief that God created (or "organized") the universe from pre-existing material. Moses 3:5 also states that all things were first created spiritually before they were created physically. This is in contrast to the mainstream belief in "creatio ex nihilo", or creation from nothing, which posits that God did not use anything to create the universe, and that it is only God is eternal.

In my reading of some recent scholarship, there seems to be more support for the LDS view of creation from pre-existent material than the traditional creation from nothing. A number of Biblical scholars state that the earliest reference to creation from nothing is in the 2nd Century BC 2 Maccabees 7:28 (2 Maccabees is part of the Deuterocanonicals, which are books seen as inspired by the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches), however a number of recent scholars do not believe that it refers to creation ex nihilo in its commonly understood meaning, and instead believe that creation from nothing did not arise in Judeo-Christian theology until the late 1st to 2nd Century AD.

In his book "The Priestly Vision of Genesis 1", Mark S. Smith (Skirball Professor of Bible and Ancient Near Eastern Studies at New York University) shows that the King James Version gives an erroneous translation of Genesis 1:1, which can lead one to believe that God created from nothing, and/or that creation began in an absolute beginning (i.e. nothing was happening before "the beginning" of Genesis 1). Instead, the NRSV and the NAB (the Catholic translation used officially in the USA) give it as "In the beginning when God created the heavens and the earth" (or some variant) instead of the absolute "In the beginning, God created..." of the KJV. Smith also states that "creatio ex nihilo is not the view of Genesis 1".

Blake Ostler also touches on the issue of creatio ex nihilo in the context of ancient Judeo-Christian thought in his book "Exploring Mormon Thought-Of God and Gods", as well as his FARMS review article "Out of Nothing: A History of Creation ex Nihilo in Early Christian Thought". From his book:

"Joseph Smith's observation that the verb "bara" means to organize, rather than to create out of absolutely nothing, has received a great deal of scholarly support. The primary meaning of the verb bara is to cut, divide, or separate. As James Atwell observed, the verb bara 'has a deliberate and considered significance when it occurs in P [the priestly document], but this falls short of creatio ex nihilo. It is best understood in the context of alternative verbs 'separate' and 'make'."

There is simply no pre-2nd century AD reference to anything resembling creation ex nihilo. Traditional Christians must accept that the Bible does not explicitly state creation from nothing. In the original Greek of the 2nd century BC 2 Maccabees 7:28 (again, the earliest supposed reference to creation ex nihilo), scholars assert that it is not necessarily talking about creation from nothing. Gerhard May, in his work "Creatio Ex Nihilo" states:

"The best known, constantly brought forward as the earliest evidence of the conceptual formulation of the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo, is 2 Maccabees 7:28. The need for caution in evaluating this is apparent from the context in which there is talk of creation 'out of nothing'. There is here no theoretical disquisition on the nature of the creation process, but a paraenetic reference to God's creative power; the mother of the seven martyrs calls her youngest son to steadfastness by holding before his eyes that God, who has shown his might by creating the world and mankind 'out of non-being', will, 'in the time of mercy' awake the righteous from death. A position on the problem of matter is clearly not to be expected in this context. The text implies no more than the conception that the world came into existence through the sovereign creative act of God, and that it previously was not there...That the formulation found in the second book of Maccabees in no way necessitates the thought of the absolute unconditionality of the creation, is also clear from an informative parallel in Xenophon. He says in his "Memorabilia" that parents 'bring forth their children out of non-being'. Naturally that does not mean that the children come to be out of nothing, and it will occur to no one to understand the statement in terms of a creatio ex nihilo."

From these and other references, we see that Joseph Smith somehow had knowledge of a deeper reading of the Biblical texts, getting to a more ancient understanding of the creation of the universe than the traditional "creation ex nihilo".

2 Maccabees 7:28 (NAB )-

"I beg you, child, to look at the heavens and the earth and see all that is in them; then you will know that God did not make them out of existing things; and in the same way the human race came into existence."

USCCB - NAB - 2 Maccabees 7

Preview of "Creatio Ex Nihilo" by Gerhard May

Creatio Ex Nihilo - Google Books

[Justice]

Yeah, and Joseph Smith knew this with no study, no internet, no schooling, and no library near him.

This belief fits right along with our belief in God and who He is.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Justice

[Yekcidmij]

I guess saying that Joseph got it right would depend on which version of Gen. 1 we are going to use from Joseph. Are we going to use the rendering in Moses 2? Abraham 4? The King Folllet Discourse? The Plurality of gods Sermon? 3 Nephi 9:15? D/C 14:9? And if we are going to quote modern scholars and use their methods (which I'm fine with), then I guess it's important to ask what's P doing in the book of Abraham, Moses, and Mormon anyway?

[Justice]

I've studied them all and I think they all tie together nicely.

What specifically are you questioning?

[Jason_J]

I guess saying that Joseph got it right would depend on which version of Gen. 1 we are going to use from Joseph. Are we going to use the rendering in Moses 2? Abraham 4? The King Folllet Discourse? The Plurality of gods Sermon? 3 Nephi 9:15? D/C 14:9? And if we are going to quote modern scholars and use their methods (which I'm fine with), then I guess it's important to ask what's P doing in the book of Abraham, Moses, and Mormon anyway?

Can you demonstrate that the "rendering " in Moses 2, Abraham 4, KFD, etc. are so significantly different that they somehow change the conclusion that "Joseph got it right"?

[JohnnyRudick]

I guess saying that Joseph got it right would depend on which version of Gen. 1 we are going to use from Joseph. Are we going to use the rendering in Moses 2? Abraham 4? The King Folllet Discourse? The Plurality of gods Sermon? 3 Nephi 9:15? D/C 14:9? And if we are going to quote modern scholars and use their methods (which I'm fine with), then I guess it's important to ask what's P doing in the book of Abraham, Moses, and Mormon anyway?

If the Prophet Joseph Smith were the one and only author of the mentioned list we may have a problem.

But since they are of various times and authors touching a different perspective of God's dealing with this particular planetary system - what is your problem anyway?

[Faded]

Interesting information. It should probably be noted that while most traditional Christians accept Ex-Nihilo Creation, most Jewish scholars reject Ex-Nihilo Creation entirely.

So we are unique within Christianity, but not necessarily unique within Judeo-Christian belief.

[KerryShirts]

Thank goodness we are not totally unique away from Judaism. Judah are our brethren in Israel as well!

[ozzy]

I guess saying that Joseph got it right would depend on which version of Gen. 1 we are going to use from Joseph. Are we going to use the rendering in Moses 2? Abraham 4? The King Folllet Discourse? The Plurality of gods Sermon? 3 Nephi 9:15? D/C 14:9? And if we are going to quote modern scholars and use their methods (which I'm fine with), then I guess it's important to ask what's P doing in the book of Abraham, Moses, and Mormon anyway?

Hmmm, I haven't studied all of these in depth, but from those parts that I understand, they don't disagree in the least. One may expound on another in various ways, but they all agree. And Genesis hasn't anything to say about it, so I don't see any problem here.

That said I wonder if we have a mistaken interpretation of intention. Are you actually looking for a problem? Or simply expressing observation?

[mrmarklin]

Scientifically, everything is either energy or matter in the universe. That being the case God had plenty of materials on hand for creation.

[ozzy]

Scientifically, everything is either energy or matter in the universe. That being the case God had plenty of materials on hand for creation.

True that. And something tells me that he is capable of utilizing energy that even we can't.