Some Russian Leaders Propose Legalizing Polygamy.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

Prove from your official source that it is false.

You've seen the evidence; I think you're just a bit miffed that the gossip has been shown to be unfounded. It was such a juicy little story, wasn't it?

Did I agree that the Church will accept same-sex marriage if a law is passed? Again, putting [your] words in my mouth.

Blah blah. You said the revelation was in response to polygamy being outlawed in the US. You don't see the correlation?

Any accusations are coming from you, in the form of [falsely] accusing me of being a gossip for simply relating a story told by Bruce McConkie's sister at a Relief Society meeting. And Emma was never accused of a crime. Or was she?

The story McConkie's sister related certainly accuses Emma of a crime, doesn't it? And sorry about pointing out the problem with gossip, but if the shoe fits...

From reading too many unofficial websites?

From watching your attempts to justify gossip in Church, actually.

It isn't my story...I just related it. If you have a problem with it, it's clearly your problem. I believe Bruce McConkie's sister is still alive. Why don't you try to find her and take up the issue with her?

You're the one who brought it up, and you're the one defending it with such zeal. My only problem is that I realize the damage it does to spread such gossip within the walls of the Church.

Indeed. Sometimes more can be learned by what is not said, than from what is said...and from the spirit in which it is delivered.

That's what I've been saying; to laugh at a (false) story about a pregnant woman being shoved down a flight of stairs...it's sad.

You have provided no official Church documentation that the story is false.

I don't need it, as there is has never been any official or historical documentation that it is. You may like it, but that doesn't make it true.

[Outshined]

From Gossip: Satan's Snare, by Elder Gene R. Cook of the First Quorum of the Seventy, Ensign, Jan.1981:

Some may think they build their self-esteem and gain the attention and respect of others by bearing false tales, but they actually become Satan’s agents. The Book of Mormon records that before the coming of the Savior to the Americas, “Satan did stir them up to do iniquity continually; yea, he did go about spreading rumors and contentions upon all the face of the land, that he might harden the hearts of the people against that which was good and against that which should come” (Hel. 16:22).

Satan succeeded in hardening the hearts of the people, and some thirty years later, after the great destruction of the wicked, the prophet Nephi recorded that “the devil laugheth, and his angels rejoice, because of the slain … of my people” (3 Ne. 9:2).

Divine cautions to guard our words are no less emphasized in modern-day scripture. The Lord said to the Prophet Joseph Smith: “And see that there is no iniquity in the church, neither hardness with each other, neither lying, backbiting, nor evil speaking” (D&C 20:54). “Thou shalt not speak evil of thy neighbor, nor do him any harm” (D&C 42:27). “Cease to contend one with another; cease to speak evil one to another” (D&C 136:23).

The Lord loves us and desires that we love one another. May we follow this further counsel given to the prophet Joseph Smith: “Therefore, strengthen your brethren in all your conversations” (D&C 108:7), and “Let your words tend to edify one another” (D&C 136:24).

Let each of us be careful that we do not contribute in any way to what the prophet Enoch saw in a vision thousands of years ago, when he recorded: “And he beheld Satan; and he had a great chain in his hand, and it veiled the whole face of the earth with darkness; and he looked up and laughed, and his angels rejoiced” (Moses 7:26).

May the continual cultivation of the Holy Spirit drive out evil thoughts and inappropriate words, so that spirituality will grow and prevail, for as we bridle our tongues we are able to bridle our whole beings.

A story like the one about Emma does not need "proof" that it is false to prevent its repetition; it should be enough that there is no evidence that it is true, and that it so maligns her character.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

You have produced no official evidence. Do you think a woman throwing a pregnant woman down the stairs is a "juicy little story"? I see no gossip...just a report on a story told by Bruce McConkie's sister at a Relief Soceity meeting.

Again, how sad that you try to justify repeating such a story as long as there is no "official evidence" that it is false. I pity the people in your ward. Then again, from what you've told us, I don't really think I'd care to associate with them in the first place.

My name isn't Gordon B. Hinckley...read the quote again.

We aren't talking about the quote, but your statement that it is "fact" that the Church stopped polygamy in response to government pressure.

Let the punishment fit the crime. Obviously, some sisters feel that polygamy was/is a crime. Providing that Bruce McConkie's sister's story is true, Emma was prompted to throw Eliza down the stairs for some reason. Having never walked in Emma's shoes, I can't imagine how she felt...and neither can you.

Polygamy was not a "crime," but a doctrine of the Church. I don't presume to second-guess the prophets on such matters.

To paint (without a shred of proof) Emma as a sadist who would throw a pregnant woman down stairs is the real crime. I suggest you read the article I posted above.

The bottom line is that there isn't a shred of evidence that the story is true, but there is evidence that it is not; i.e. Eliza's journals and JS III's statements about it.

Repeating a story told at a Church meeting by a prominant speaker is hardly considered gossip, and certainly requires no justification from me.

It certainly is gossip when it is inflammatory heresay such as that. I don't excuse her for putting it out, nor you for repeating it like it is fact.

The amazing thing is that you try so hard to justify it.

Instead of shooting the messenger, why don't you contact Bruce McConkie's sister and settle this with her?

Because you are the one defending it here. You've not once admitted that there is no evidence that it is true or even that it is a bad thing to laugh about a pregnant woman being thrown down stairs.

You seem to think that as long as it hasn't been officially denied by the Church, it's okay to repeat as fact. That leaves a whole lot of anti material open, doesn't it?

Ok, now which is it? Sad? or a "juicy little story"?

To me, sad; to the snickering sisters in your RS, apparently quite the juicy bit. That's the saddest part.

If you don't need official church documentation to prove that the story is false, then I don't need official church documentation to prove that the story is true...only the words from the person I was quoting initially.

Another amazing attempt to justify gossip. As long as it hasn't been "proven" false, it's okay to spread. Sad.

I hope you're a bit more discreet about the things you hear about your neighbors than you are with unfounded stories about Emma.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

No justification is necessary. It was a simple story related at a stake Relief Society meeting. Sorry, it was a meeting for the sisters, so you wouldn't have felt comfortable there.

Not with that kind of heresay being presented as truth.

Yes, we are talking specifically about the quote, since you asked me for official Church documentation which I was happy to provide.

Nice dodge.

You have provided no official Church documentation to disprove or counter Bruce McConkie's sister's story. Ask any woman who loves her husband and has been commanded to share him with another woman. If the story is true, Emma was guilty of a "crime of passion". My heart goes out to Emma, in all that she had to endure in her lifetime...losing her children, and her husband to another woman. I have never heard anyone in the Church accuse Emma of being a sadist, a murderer, or a baby killer until today...from you.

Actually, you did; I just called you on it. The story is not true, so it isn't even an issue. TYhe story does not need to be "proven" false. As heresay, it should be treated as such.

If this story had been officially documented by the Church as untrue, why would Bruce McConkie's sister, of all people, tell the story in a stake Relief Society meeting?

Why should it be "officially documented?" Does that mean everything critics say that has not been "officially documented" is true? Ridiculous.

Admitting to something I have no knowledge of is ridiculous. As far as the sisters' snickers...I'm not a mind reader and do not know their thoughts.

You have no knowledge that spreading such unfounded stories is wrong? Interesting.

If your only concern is fueling the fire of the antis, you will remain in denial about many things which happen in the Church. We know that the Church is true, but many in it are not.

Like this story. But the insistence that it must be "proven" false only feeds the antis.

It wasn't I who used the term, "juicy".

But you kept using it.

Why would anyone feel the need to justify gossip?

That's what I'm wondering, but you are trying.

I don't listen to gossip.

Great, then don't spread (or defend) it.

The story is heresay, and is not proper for repetition.

As I said on the other thread on this ridiculous matter: My position stated simply: The story about Emma has no historical evidence, and maligns her character It should not be repeated by honorable people. The story was disputed by those who were there, as I've shown, and no evidence at all has been provided to show otherwise.

Gossip is wrong, and Emma deserves to be treated better.

[Guest Syble]

Lets see, we have learned what here?

[Outshined]

Lets see, we have learned what here?

That because of war losses, Chechen leaders are considering legalizing polygamy.

That's about it.

[Snow]

Bruce McKonkie's sister spoke to the Relief Society in my stake, and recounted an event involving Joseph and Emma Smith. Joseph had received revelation that he was to marry Eliza Snow. Emma did her best to keep them apart, but in the end, they were married. That didn't stop Emma, though. During Eliza's pregnancy, Emma pushed her down the stairs!

Well - if spread false rumors were a grievous sin, the sister in Relief Society would have been excommunicated.

You should spread false rumors either. It's not nice.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Snow]

False rumor? LOL

Yeah - that's right. You're gossiping, spreading false rumors, and promoting an antiMormon tripe.

Have you misplaced your shame?

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

What an utterly ridiculous viewpoint.

So if a rumor is required to be "disproven with official Church documentation," a lot of the anti-Mormon claims must be accepted as truth.

The Emma Smith story is false, no "documentation" required. The sister should have known better than to spread falsehoods like that. (And her last name is not McConkie, by the way).

Same old Ari.

[Outshined]

On the actual topic, I wonder how many Chechens will take advantage of the polygamy law if it is approved...

Will they want to multiply as much as possible, or take the more common viewpoint that even one partner is sometimes too many?

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

It has been examined; Snow gave you the origin, and I pointed out the link that has been provided to the information from Eliza Snow and Joseph Smith III that it didn't happen.

It is indeed a false story, and the insistence on "official Church documentation" is foolish.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

Official Church documentation is required to substantiate that the story "Sister McConkie" retold about Emma Smith from the Church pulpit at a stake Relief Society meeting is false and that "Sister McConkie" is guilty of "spreading rumors and gossip" in the LDS Church.

- Mrs. A

Says who? You? There is no rule of any kind here or in the LDS Church, so be aware that you are speaking for yourself alone on that.

Perhaps such documentation is "required" by you, but a reasonable person can see that it is not true. However, Sister Pope is not guilty of anything except poor judgement for repeating a story that is not true.

Allow me to demonstrate the enormous flaw in your logic. On another LDS board I frequent, a member stated that he'd heard a rumor that President Joseph F. Smith was gay. Now, it is ridiculous and no one believes it, but if we applied your logic, we'd have to accept it as fact because no "official Church documentation" exists to dispute it. Silly.

The story about Emma Smith throwing a pregnant Eliza Snow down a flight of stairs is an anti-Mormon legend, nothing more. Period.

[Fiannan]

Did you guys ever see the Life of Brian? Your discussion reminds me of the debate scenes with the Jewish Liberation Front. Pointless. I couldn't care less if Emma Smith ripped her blouse off, put on spiked heels, grabed a whip and chased all Joseph Smith's wives around the farm house.

[Outshined]

Did you guys ever see the Life of Brian? Your discussion reminds me of the debate scenes with the Jewish Liberation Front. Pointless. I couldn't care less if Emma Smith ripped her blouse off, put on spiked heels, grabed a whip and chased all Joseph Smith's wives around the farm house.

Now that would make an interesting Relief Society talk... (or Elder's Quorum, for that matter)

[Fiannan]

I'd rather make it into a movie.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Sugarbay]

Someone please provide documentation one way or the other or stop speaking badly of Sister Smith. Does it really matter what happened anyway. Just carcass to feed on. Tsk.