Some Russian Leaders Propose Legalizing Polygamy.

[shanstress70]

So, why leave the Church over such a relatively unimportant issue?

This obviously is not an unimportant issue for me. And I have a hard time believing that it is for you.

And this alone is not why I left the church... it is just what set me on my quest for more knowledge, which made me aware of other issues that I didn't agree with. I have a rather long list of reasons for leaving, of which I haven't the energy of spelling out again. I've done that several times in the past two years or so on this board.

[Outshined]

<div class='quotemain'>

Actually, the original thread wasn't pointless, it just went that way.

What's the point? LOL

Where's my rimshot smiley? Ah, this'll do.

By the way, the new smiley list is awesome!!

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Heather]

In response to the reports on this thread:

I have read/skimmed through the majority of it, but I'm not going to take the time to edit 5 pages worth of posting. All the nit-picking at semantics is absurd. It’s like those posts you read where someone can’t find fault with another’s argument, so they start to pick at their misspellings.

Maybe none of us truly know how it would be to live in a polygamous marriage, but I can tell you this, when a woman flirts with my husband, I don’t like it. So it’s quite easy for me to assume that if another woman is bedding my husband, while I am sleeping next to an empty spot in my bed, I am going to hate it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Please show each other the same level of respect you would like to receive. I’m tired of reading all of the, “You’re not truly LDS if you think that way.” I’m LDS and I know that I think differently than other LDS members on several issues. Are we truly being LDS if we’re constantly bickering and trying to run each other down?

Also, if you don’t want to be called by your screen name, please choose a name you would like to be called by. Do we really need 2 pages worth of debate over a name?

And BTW, the next person who posts anything that I deem to be name calling/bickering will receive a one day suspension to cool off.

[shanstress70]

What bothers me more is why the feelings of polygamist women are invalidated/downplayed.

I think you know that I'm with you there! I don't think all, or even most, of women in polygamous relationships were happy. I think that the only ones who will say they were happy, is men. They weren't the ones having to share their wives with other men... accept for those to whom Joseph Smith married, of course.

[Heather]

I doubt the men were all that happy about it either. After the honeymoon period is over, what do you have to look forward to? Jealous wives, more responsibility, and double the mouths to feed?

And it probably got better for the women: Oh good, I don't have to fake a headache tonight; she can iron his shirt tomorrow and do all the cooking.

Nope, I still don't like the idea of it. The only thing that I know is that God loves us and I know that he would never require of me to do something that would bring me unbearable sorrow. Knowing this, I know that if I am called to practice polygamy in the next life, it will be a way that I and my husband will be completely happy with. I don't know how it will work, or what it will be like, but I know that I will be fine with it.

[Outshined]

I think that the only ones who will say they were happy, is men. They weren't the ones having to share their wives with other men... accept for those to whom Joseph Smith married, of course.

I doubt the men were much happier than the women. You have to live with them, you know...

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

I think that the only ones who will say they were happy, is men. They weren't the ones having to share their wives with other men... accept for those to whom Joseph Smith married, of course.

I doubt the men were much happier than the women. You have to live with them, you know...

What I meant is that men are about the only ones who would say that the women were happy with polygamy. You know... like YOU were saying?

[Outshined]

<div class='quotemain'>

I doubt the men were much happier than the women. You have to live with them, you know...

What I meant is that men are about the only ones who would say that the women were happy with polygamy. You know... like YOU were saying?

Ooooooohhh! I see...

[Ray]

[

<div class='quotemain'>

I've read many quotes and journals from women of that period, and many were very happy with it. It would be silly to think that they all would be, just as it would be to think that they all were not.

Women today look at it from a modern perspective, a far cry from the time we are talking about.

Women loved their husbands then; they love their husbands now. Why would a woman who loves her husband want to share him with another woman?

Why do you equate [loving your husband] with [wanting to keep your husband all to yourself]???

How would men feel if they were commanded to share their wives with another man?

Once I gained the knowledge that our Lord had commanded it, having Faith that my Lord would not command me to do something that is not good for me, I would do what my Lord commanded me to do because of the Faith I had in Him.

I suppose perhaps some polygamist wives were happy...but many more were not...and we know of at least one famous sister in history who was not! (Not to mention the unmentionable.)

I can easily imagine how someone could be unhappy with the idea, but once someone gained Faith to know that our Lord had commanded it, and that our Lord would not give a commandment unless it was righteous and good for Man, I would then strive to understand how it was righteous and how I would benefit from it.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Fiannan]

Fiannan, I was using "Mrs. A" to distinguish between my post and Aristotle's posts, but people started referring to me as an old screen name, "Ari", which is no longer registered. As far as expressing two viewpoints under one screen name...my husband and I are as one on these issues.

Why not just allow him to have his own screen name. You could even pick it for him. Gee, let him be a free spirit and speak for himself. besides, if he does disagree with you you can read it and punish him later.

By the way, the US government attempted to set up shelters for women escaping polygamy. No women from LDS homes came for use. From what I understand (and was explained by another poser here) the shelters were discontinued as women escaping from prostitution (utilized by the non-Mormons in Salt Lake) were the only ones seeking help.

Kinda like today -- we in the USA call ourselves so morally superior to the Muslims and will actually point out they allow polygamy. Yes they do, and recently in Morocco the government was discussing banning it but thousands of women took to the streets in protest as they wanted to keep it. Of course I guess we are morally superior -- we just dress our girls like whores, allow pornography, have tens of thousands of our young women making money from working in the porn industry, have tens of thousands working as strippers, yet fine women in some areas for breatfeeding in public.

[shanstress70]

By the way, the US government attempted to set up shelters for women escaping polygamy. No women from LDS homes came for use. From what I understand (and was explained by another poser here) the shelters were discontinued as women escaping from prostitution (utilized by the non-Mormons in Salt Lake) were the only ones seeking help.

There could be other reasons for why the women didn't come to the shelters... not just because they loved their polygamous lives. Perhaps they were afraid of their husbands, maybe they were threatened by them. And if they left, they would have no money or any way to survive after leaving the shelters. Who wants to live in a shelter forever?

[Outshined]

Kinda like today -- we in the USA call ourselves so morally superior to the Muslims and will actually point out they allow polygamy. Yes they do, and recently in Morocco the government was discussing banning it but thousands of women took to the streets in protest as they wanted to keep it. Of course I guess we are morally superior -- we just dress our girls like whores, allow pornography, have tens of thousands of our young women making money from working in the porn industry, have tens of thousands working as strippers, yet fine women in some areas for breatfeeding in public.

That's true. When I was in the Middle East, the thing about the US that most people commented on to me that they had a problem with is our immoral society.

They view us as a very hedonistic and sinful nation. When given examples like pornography, prostitution and some of our other accepted "entertainment", it was rather hard to argue with them most of the time.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

Kinda like today -- we in the USA call ourselves so morally superior to the Muslims and will actually point out they allow polygamy. Yes they do, and recently in Morocco the government was discussing banning it but thousands of women took to the streets in protest as they wanted to keep it. Of course I guess we are morally superior -- we just dress our girls like whores, allow pornography, have tens of thousands of our young women making money from working in the porn industry, have tens of thousands working as strippers, yet fine women in some areas for breatfeeding in public.

That's true. When I was in the Middle East, the thing about the US that most people commented on to me that they had a problem with is our immoral society.

They view us as a very hedonistic and sinful nation. When given examples like pornography, prostitution and some of our other accepted "entertainment", it was rather hard to argue with them most of the time.

I agree with you guys. But I can't change society, so I just worry about my little family and the people I choose to socialize with!

[Outshined]

I agree with you guys. But I can't change society, so I just worry about my little family and the people I choose to socialize with!

That's really all you can do, and at least you make an effort. B)

We were just commenting on how people gripe about what they think is wrong with Islamic culture, when Muslims consider us much worse than they are.

[shanstress70]

Please don't tell me that there aren't problems with the way women are treated in some Muslim societies.

[Outshined]

Please don't tell me that there aren't problems with the way women are treated in some Muslim societies.

Oh. I wouldn't do that, but some of it is the eye of the beholder as well. To us they seem barbaric, and to them we seem hedonistic and corrupt.

There are things in their society we would never tolerate, and things in ours that they would not tolerate.

[shanstress70]

There are things in their society we would never tolerate,

Right, like killing a European woman for wanting to live a Western lifestyle..

Or what about killing a woman in order to 'honor' the family?

Is this really along the same lines as allowing girls to wear provocative clothing, or looking at porn?

[Outshined]

Right, like killing a European woman for wanting to live a Western lifestyle..

Or what about killing a woman in order to 'honor' the family?

Is this really along the same lines as allowing girls to wear provocative clothing, or looking at porn?

To them it is. You just can't apply your standards to another entirely different culture.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

Right, like killing a European woman for wanting to live a Western lifestyle..

Or what about killing a woman in order to 'honor' the family?

Is this really along the same lines as allowing girls to wear provocative clothing, or looking at porn?

To them it is. You just can't apply your standards to another entirely different culture.

I can say that killing a woman for any of the reasons in the articles is WRONG - no matter what society you belong to. I can say that killing a woman because she was raped is WRONG - no matter what!

There are just some things that are wrong... period!

Lets say there was a society who thinks it's OK to molest kids. Can we apply our standards to their culture and say that that is wrong? Or would it be OK because it's a different culture?

I agree with you a lot, Outshined, but in this case you're out there, IMO!

[Outshined]

I'm sorry, but I can't see telling a different culture how they should be doing things when we have so much wrong with our own. Shar'ia law is an entirley different world, and we can't apply our standards to them.

As far as molesting kids goes, we are rapidly becoming a society that allows just that. Last week a judge in Vermont upheld a decision to give a man who repeatedly raped a little girl 60 days in jail because "punishment doesn't work."

Further, the American Psychological Association released a statement a couple of years ago stating that sex between an adult and a child "does no lasting harm to a child." Who are they kidding?

We as a society allow groups like NAMBLA to exist, and they even get free legal support from the ACLU.

As far as the Muslims are concerned, we are a society that allows kids to be molested. In their country, he would have been executed. Quickly.

Yes, I believe killing a woman for the reasons given is wrong and terrible, but we are not in a position as a society to preach to anyone else about right and wrong. It's a matter of cleaning up your own backyard before pointing out what's wrong with your neighbor's.

EDIT: The point is that I do not advocate some of the things they do, and would not want to live under their system; however I recognize that we have a lot of things terribly wrong in our society that they see as being just as wrong. We look as bad to them as they do to us.

[shanstress70]

I'm sorry, but I can't see telling a different culture how they should be doing things when we have so much wrong with our own. Shar'ia law is an entirley different world, and we can't apply our standards to them.

As far as molesting kids goes, we are rapidly becoming a society that allows just that. Last week a judge in Vermont upheld a decision to give a man who repeatedly raped a little girl 60 days in jail because "punishment doesn't work."

Further, the American Psychological Association released a statement a couple of years ago stating that sex between an adult and a child "does no lasting harm to a child." Who are they kidding?

We as a society allow groups like NAMBLA to exist, and they even get free legal support from the ACLU.

As far as the Muslims are concerned, we are a society that allows kids to be molested. In their country, he would have been executed. Quickly.

Yes, I believe killing a woman for the reasons given is wrong and terrible, but we are not in a position as a society to preach to anyone else about right and wrong. It's a matter of cleaning up your own backyard before pointing out what's wrong with your neighbor's.

EDIT: The point is that I do not advocate some of the things they do, and would not want to live under their system; however I recognize that we have a lot of things terribly wrong in our society that they see as being just as wrong. We look as bad to them as they do to us.

I can and will absolutely preach to anyone who will listen about the horrible way that women are treated, in Muslim countries and anywhere else. If you have to live in a perfect society in order to gripe about someone else's society, then how would any change ever be made? There is no perfect society.

I can and will also preach to anyone about horrible treatment of children, whether in this country, Iraq, Finland, or wherever! And yes, I will preach against NAMBLA and ACLU. It doesn't matter where anyone lives - wrong is wrong! Just because certain things are acceptable in their society doesn't make it acceptable anywhere. And yes, we are superior to the Arab countries in the way women are treated here.

[Prend1]

I'll join ya in the ACLU crusade!!!

[Ray]

But getting back to the point, which I believed to be about polygamy, is polygamy a totally unrighteous practice simply because some people say it is?

And btw, I am totally aware of the fact that it is now illegal to practice polygamy in the good ole USA, and I agree that it would not be right to practice polygamy in America while living under American laws which declare it to be illegal, but if American law were to later sanction it, by declaring it to be legal, why would it still be unrighteous?