Baptism

[MaMeeshkaMow]

Hello there,

Question about baptism. My friend (non-LDS) and I were talking about baptism in general. I was telling him that we believe it's one of the ordinances we need to do to get to heaven. I thought that most Christians believed in some kind of baptism, but he said he didn't think one had to do that. I asked him why and his answer was kind of interesting (one I hadn't heard before). He referenced the man on the cross next to Jesus. He said that he was told basically he was going to be saved and there was no baptism done for him. Could this man have been saved without baptism or was he going to spirit prison where he would receive the gospel and a proxy baptism would be done later? What do you think? Thanks!!

[Hemidakota]

Yes! He was correct. Both thieves on the cross will enter into the kingdom of GOD. But to which glory will be based on their mortal life, repentance process, and the acknowledgment He was the Christ. Each will receive anything that is less than the Celestial Kingdom. However, if their temple works are done by proxy, it will be up to the Savior in allowing them to the lowest order of the Celestial Kingdom. The Atonement is for all men and women, regardless of what was done in this world. The only exception is perdition.

To answer what part of heaven is it really necessary for any ordinance of the Gospel would be baptism. This needs to be accomplish in mortality in order to enter the gate therein, would be the lowest state of the Celestial Kingdom.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Hemidakota]

To add, this statement was uttered to one of the thieves, who expressed a feeling that Christ was innocent of a crime (Luke 23:41). The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that "paradise" more correctly meant "the world of spirits." The thief may not have understood what Jesus meant—what was his understanding of God's plan?—but Christ's words clearly were intended to be a comfort to the thief. Again, in his suffering, the Savior was thinking of the needs of those around him.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Justice]

Christ never told the man he was saved.

If you think there is only a heaven and hell, as your friend has been taught, then it's naturtal to think Christ was telling him he would be saved. But, as Hemi pointed out, all those saved from the second death will be "saved" in the Kingdom of God. There are many degrees of glory and many mansions within His Kingdom. He was not being promised exaltation.

Also, there is another interpretation of what Christ told the man. The literal transaltion should have been "today you will be with me in the spirit world." This could be either paradise or prison. But, it could simply be a testimant by Christ that there is life after death, and therefore, there is a God.