human evolution, teachings within the temple and exalting ordinances.

[GeneC]

It's about human evolution, teachings within the temple and exalting ordinances.

"accepting literally the Adam and Eve teachings learned in his endowment ceremony,"

And I think that would be that G_D created Adam and Even and thus man.

[Traveler]

....

And not that it matters but my doubt about the moon goes way back to the early 1970's way before any conspiracy was born.

Growing up as a youth I was involved in the 50’s and 60’s in making my own rockets and cannons – experimenting to see how high into the sky I could get objects. While attending BYU in the late 60’s and early 70’s I was acquainted with Dr. Tracy Hall – the world leading authority on high pressure physics but at the time we were experimenting with lazars. This is when I was first introduced to the lazar gyroscope.

I bring this up because it was the breakthrough of lazar gyroscopes that enabled navigation to the moon and back in the Apollo projects. After leaving BYU I went to work for companies that contract with the defense department. Much of my work dealt with classified information and projects – including navigation and tracking of long range nuclear delivery devices. During this time I had access to classified navigational data created by the lazar gyroscopes on the Apollo projects and specifically the data generated for the moon landing. Needless to say – I know for a fact that the navigation data generated for the moon landing was not faked.

My point with this post is to give personal witness that we have the technology and the ability to put a landing craft (with live human cargo) on the moon and return it to earth.

What were you doing to convince you otherwise?

The Traveler

[GeneC]

What is the gravity on the moon?

[Traveler]

It's about human evolution, teachings within the temple and exalting ordinances.

"accepting literally the Adam and Eve teachings learned in his endowment ceremony,"

And I think that would be that G_D created Adam and Even and thus man.

Here is the problem – it appears you are saying that the temple teaches that there is no evolution - which means no genetic mutations – no natural selections and no genetic drift ever concerning mankind. I say that G-d can use mutations, natural selections and genetic drift to produce the verities of humans that prove evolution since Adam. I am saying directly that you have misunderstood sacred truths taught in the temple when you imply G-d does not utilize mutations, natural selections and genetic drift as elements of creation.

I reject the notion that G-d created Adam and Eve differently than he created you or me. In fact if you listen very carefully to what is said specifically about the creation of Adam and Eve - that what is being taught in the temple is “symbolic”.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

What is the gravity on the moon?

The gravitational constant is the same for the moon as the earth. This relates to the isotropic nature of the universe. Do you imply to ask a question about gravity in relationship to mass as per Newtonian physics, special relativity or more recent quantum mechanics?

The Traveler

[Traveler]

First off the thread is about whether man was divinely created by The Creator or evolved from evolutionary garbage like slime. Sure man change eye colors etc but man was created man and will always be man. He can progress into Godhood but that is through acts and not mutations or DNA enhancements.

A rather bold statement - so you believe you and everyone else will be resurrected with the exact same DNA with which you were born?

The Traveler

[GeneC]

G_d using mutations - I'll have to really pray about that one. Good luck with selling that.

I's been fun but not fun enough to stay.

Before I go were you guys trying to punk me are we on TV, is this being recorded?

[JohnnyRudick]

A rather bold statement - so you believe you and everyone else will be resurrected with the exact same DNA with which you were born?

The Traveler

I believe we will be changed.

But I do not believe the Code in the DNA given to Adam and Eve will be lost.

[Xevelous]

First off the thread is about whether man was divinely created by The Creator or evolved from evolutionary garbage like slime. Sure man change eye colors etc but man was created man and will always be man. He can progress into Godhood but that is through acts and not mutations or DNA enhancements.

This is not what evolutionary theory has to say about human evolution. And again, Evolutionary theory has little to nothing to say about Abiogenesis, which seems to be what you are talking about.

Actually, you seem to be arguing that scientists are arguing spontaneous generation, which was dismissed long ago.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Xevelous
Add on

[Traveler]

G_d using mutations - I'll have to really pray about that one. Good luck with selling that.

I's been fun but not fun enough to stay.

Before I go were you guys trying to punk me are we on TV, is this being recorded?

Blue eyes are an example of a mutation. More often than not it is not so much a problem of disagreement but a understanding of terms.

The Traveler

[Traveler]

I believe we will be changed.

But I do not believe the Code in the DNA given to Adam and Eve will be lost.

Good answer - Would you be interested in discussing what of us will be resurrected? The spirit is easy but "what" that is physical?

The Traveler

[JohnnyRudick]

Johnnyrudick 8:21 That which contains the info of all our generations will be resurrected.

Just a laugh, but that is what I believe.

The imperfect scattered info will be left behind along with our imperfect blood.

Those of us who died in old age will resemble a 30 year old human being of the Adamic Family in our glorified bodies.

Thoise who died younger will grow to that stature without the inhibiting intrusion of pollution, poisons, etc.

It would take a book for me to try to relate what I believe about our glorified bodies.

[Guest Seraphim]

This thread has become rather contentious, so I'm closing it.

Seraphim

[rameumptom]

President Spencer W. Kimball's brother-in-law was Henry Eyring (father of President Eyring of the 1st Presidency). He was one of the most renowned scientists in his day, until he died in 1981.

I had the opportunity to listen to him discuss science and religion once in the late 1970s. At the time, there was a big discussion going on about cloning. He personally had no problem with cloning. After all, he asked us how the resurrection would occur. Would we resurrect with the atoms and DNA we were born with? If so, then we would be missing over one hundred pounds from our adult years. How about those who died centuries ago? Will there be any part of their matter remaining intact? Or will that matter have changed into other atoms and forms of matter since then? If more than one person shares the same matter/DNA at death, who gets it? Instead, Br Eyring suggested that God could use any matter to develop a DNA strand, and from that rebuild our bodies in the resurrection.

His point is that God is an expert in science, and can use science to put forth his plans and goals. This included evolution, as God could have used it to provide development for many forms of life, including some similar to human life - leading to the grand creation of Adam and Eve.

We are not traditional Christians who believe we are made from different substance than God. No, instead we believe we are made of the same matter as God is. But that means animals, amoebas, and rocks are all made of the same stuff as us and God. And it is all eternal. So why is it so terrible to think that God used natural methods to develop mortal mankind from lower forms? The scripture states that Adam was made from the dust of the earth. Is that any better than mortal protozoan ancestors? I think not. As with President Eyring's father, it is all the same to me.

Joseph Smith stated that this earth/system is 4.55 billion years old, which he learned from Joseph Seixas, his Hebrew instructor. He accepted it readily that the earth is not 6000 years old. Why should we then struggle with such concepts?

The Creation as given in the temple is different than that given in the Bible's 2 versions (3 if you include the Chaldean version that Isaiah references), the one in the Book of Moses, and the one in the Book of Abraham. Which, then, is the literally true and exact creation story? And if only one is literally true, does that mean the others are false and should be discredited, tossing out major sections of our scriptures or temple ceremony? I hope not.

Don't allow your absolute literalism to destroy the beauty and grandeur of God's symbolism.

[rameumptom]

Still can't engender a new species from it. Always will be a man, white or black.

This is true. At least true in the sense that we humans do not have enough history to see bigger changes. Most of what we know of modern man has only been in the last 10,000 years or so. That is very short in evolutionary time.

But one still must explain the various humanoid forms. Even modern ones, such as the apes. Chimpanzees can do sign language, communicate with humans, create and use tools, and do many things we can. When it comes to DNA, they are only 2-4% different from us. That is science that cannot be disputed.

Plus, we see that in the gospel, man does evolve. We began as intelligence, which can mean different things to different scholars. Personally, I believe that all matter that is touched by the Light of Christ is an intelligence, from the smallest particle to the greatest life form. Intelligence was organized into spirits. Spirits evolved into mortals with physical bodies. Eventually, those spirit/body combinations will be made permanent in a glorious form as gods. THAT to me is a major evolutionary path!

Why God cannot also do the same in the mortal realm is beyond me.