By What Name?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Do you know why knowledge is important?...like I have said knowledge is not righteousness yet it is very important because, it helps in forming our vision.

Every Elect has an unquenchable thirst and hunger for the righteousness of GOD and they shall continue on in their path until they have received the promises if they are not interrupted by death. We are never static either we are rising to newer and greater things in thoughts, knowledge and wisdom or we are regressing. That is way of things. Whether we increase or decrease in all things it is up to us.

That is where the prophet of the Church comes in. He can set goals for us for which as a people we may have a common vision, by which the faith of many can be added so that it may be made manifest in time.

Our goal in this life is to push and demonstrate our faith in God, primarily. If we do that, wisdom and knowledge will follow. In terms of what we seek after first though is faith, not knowledge.

It seems that your perception of faith is that it is a tool to reach more important goals in this life by your statement; "He can set goals for us for which as a people we may have a common vision, by which the faith of many can be added so that it may be made manifest in time." ... in this life the goal is faith, not that faith takes us to other goals.

There is nothing more important than faith in Jesus Christ in this life, as far as pursuits in this life goes. Because, if at the end of this life all I have is faith in Jesus Christ demonstrated by my obedience to His commandments I will have all the knowledge, eventually, in the life to come.

But, if one only seeks after knowledge and ignores faith and even if they do a great job of obtaining vast amount of religious knowledge in this life, they will never have full knowledge because it requires faith to enter into the Kingdom of eternal increase.

It is not important to seek after religious knowledge of facts and figures and interpretations in this life, unless that is your calling in this life. The humble, contrite, faithful individual who maintains their faith in Christ will do just fine come judgement day. And, when the veil is lifted will recall vast amounts of knowlege of religious facts and principles than any one could learn in this lifetime.

I don't think you are grasping the idea that there is no possible way that you could add to the knowledge of what you had before this life without it being faith, wisdom or experience. Tell me one principle of righteousness that you didn't already learn in pre-mortal existence. We don't need to learn them again, we just need to remember them through the spirit. If it is remembering and not learning, then there is no "advance" like you are trying to suggest. We only "advance" in faith and wisdom, experience and standing with God in this life. We do not advance in knowledge more than what we had before or more than what we will get back at the end of this fallen state, in my opinion.

And it doesn't require anyone knowing that "Christ" means "Annointed by light" to obtain faith, wisdom or experience sufficient enough to have eternal increase in the next life and eventually understand the true meaning of the word "Christ", whatever that is.

[bert10]

Faith is a tool. In fact faith is power. People have come to realize faith as a set of beliefs. This is being deceived. By the power of faith mountains are moved , mouths of lions are closed, the earth shake, and worlds come into existence and if they remain in existence it is because of Faith. Hebrews 11:3 - Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. Two things were required to happen before the world were framed. First faith and then GOD SPOKE. Faith and works go hand in hand. So yes faith is a tool to be used for good or evil. A good movie to watch on this is "faith like potatoes" or "facing the giants" There isn't a billionaire alive that has not dealt with faith. Instead of becoming a Spiritual leader they used all they have in acquiring filthy lucre. Donald Trump one time explained what he had to go through to get where he was. And in the describing the qualities needed to become a billionaire were the very same qualities that everyone who become successful by worldly standard used. Perseverance in the face of adversity and failure. The ability to pick onself up from catastrophe and to rebuild etc. This is what the prophets did. Also To never give up...to be driven even to the working 16 hours days on end perhaps for years. My friend who was an immigrant from Italy did this. He became a millionaire in about 20 years owning 2 Restaurants, pizza shop and flower shop. The price was high though. It cost him his first family. Yes, faith as I understand it is power....and it is written - For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. 1 Corinthians 4:20 bert10

[volgadon]

And it doesn't require anyone knowing that "Christ" means "Annointed by light" to obtain faith, wisdom or experience sufficient enough to have eternal increase in the next life and eventually understand the true meaning of the word "Christ", whatever that is.

You are right, it doesn't require us knowing the etymology of Jesus the Christ. Even less so do we need to know it when we realise Bert is completely wrong here.

[bert10]

Faith the Principle of Power. It is explained in the "Lectures on Faith" You say I am completely wrong here. And yet you do not say how....neither are you explaining how faith works.

School for the prophets

A school for the prophets was established by J. Smith in the beginning...in order to quick start the church and give people power in overcoming the world.

Everyone that is alive lives by faith even pagans who know nothing of Jesus or even how it works. Have your read the Lectures on Faith yet ? I will put a little bit down here not the whole things however.

THEOLOGY.

LECTURE FIRST

ON THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH OF THE

LATTER DAY SAINTS.

Of Faith.

SECTION 1.

1 FAITH being the first principle in revealed religion, and the foundation of all righteousness, necessarily claims the first place in a course of lectures which are designed to unfold to the understanding the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

2 In presenting the subject of faith, we shall observe the following order:

3 First, Faith itself--what it is:

4 Secondly, The object on which it rests; and

S Thirdly, The effects which flow from it.

6 Agreeably to this order we have first to show what faith is.

7 The author of the epistle to the Hebrews, in the eleventh chapter of that epistle, and first verse, gives the following definition of the word faith:

8 Now faith is the substance (assurance) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

9 From this we learn, that faith is the assurance which men have of the existence of things which they have not seen; and the principle of action in all intelligent beings.

10 If men were duly to consider themselves, and turn their thoughts and reflections to the operations of

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their own minds, they would readily discover that it is faith, and faith only, which is the moving cause of all action, in them; that without it, both mind and body would be in a state of inactivity, and all their exertions would cease, both physical and mental.

11 Were this class to go back and reflect upon the history of their lives, from the period of their first recollection, and ask themselves, what principle excited them to action, or what gave them energy and activity, in all their lawful avocations, callings and pursuits, what would be the answer? Would it not be that it was the assurance which we had of the existance of things which we had not seen, as yet? Was it not the hope which you had, in consequence of your belief in the existence of unseen things, which stimulated you to action and exertion, in order to obtain them? Are you not dependant on your faith, or belief, for the acquisition of all knowledge, wisdom and intelligence? Would you exert yourselves to obtain wisdom and intelligence, unless you did believe that you could obtain them? Would you have ever sown if you had not believed that you would reap? Would you have ever planted if you had not believed that you would gather? Would you have ever asked unless you had believed that you would receive? Would you have ever sought unless you had believed that you would have found? Or would you have ever knocked unless you had believed that it would have been opened unto you? In a word, is there any thing that you would have done, either physical or mental, if you had not previously believed? Are not all your exertions, of every kind, dependant on your faith? Or may we not ask, what have you, or what do you possess, which you have not obtained by reason of your faith? Your food, your raiment, your lodgings, are they not all by reason of your faith? Reflect, and ask yourselves, if these things are not so. Turn your thoughts on

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your own minds, and see if faith is not the moving cause of all action in yourselves; and if the moving cause in you, it it not in all other intelligent beings?

12 An as faith is the moving cause of all action in temporal concerns, so it is in spiritual; for the Savior has said, and that truly, that he that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved. Mark 16:16.

13 As we receive by faith, all temporal blessings that we do receive, so we, in like manner, receive by faith all spiritual blessings, that we do receive. But faith is not only the principle of action, but of power, also, in all intelligent beings, whether in heaven, or on earth. Thus says the author of the epistle to the Hebrews, 11:3:

14 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God: so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

15 By this we understand that the principle of power, which existed in the bosom of God, by which the worlds were framed, was faith; and that it is by reason of this principle of power, existing in the Deity, that all created things exist-so that all things in heaven, on earth, or under the earth, exist by reason of faith, as it existed in HIM.

16 Had it not been for the principle of faith the worlds would never have been framed, neither would man have been formed of the dust--it is the principle by which Jehovah works, and through which he exercises power over all temporal, as well as eternal things. Take this principle or attribute, (for it is an attribute) from the Deity and he would cease to exist.

17 Who cannot see, that if God framed the worlds by faith, that it is by faith that he exercises power over them, and that faith is the principle of power? And that if the principle of power, it must be so in man as well as in the Deity? This is the testimony of all........

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(God is no respecter of person. )Anyone who uses the principle of faith has power. There has been healing even among the Buddhists and in other religions as well.

bert10

You are right, it doesn't require us knowing the etymology of Jesus the Christ. Even less so do we need to know it when we realise Bert is completely wrong here.

[volgadon]

I said you were completely wrong about the etymology of Jesus the Christ. As for faith being a principle of power, you presume to lecture people who've known and taught this for years, as if we should be bowing to your superior knowledge and revelations.

[Seminarysnoozer]

You are right, it doesn't require us knowing the etymology of Jesus the Christ. Even less so do we need to know it when we realise Bert is completely wrong here.

Don't get me wrong (just as a figure of speech, I don't think you do), I appreciate the discussion and it has value. It's value is just not to the level Bert10 is making it out to be. I think the Bible dictionary definition of "Christ" is sufficient for most of us; "Christ. The anointed (Gk.) or Messiah (Heb.). ..." There is more to the description.

Whether it was by oil or light or some other substance not known to us at this time it doesn't change the fact that Christ is the Chosen One before the world began and had a special mission here in this life, to be our Savior.

I think, like most words in the gospel, it has multiple meanings, all of which are valid and useful at certain times.

[volgadon]

Don't get me wrong (just as a figure of speech, I don't think you do), I appreciate the discussion and it has value. It's value is just not to the level Bert10 is making it out to be. I think the Bible dictionary definition of "Christ" is sufficient for most of us; "Christ. The anointed (Gk.) or Messiah (Heb.). ..." There is more to the description.

Whether it was by oil or light or some other substance not known to us at this time it doesn't change the fact that Christ is the Chosen One before the world began and had a special mission here in this life, to be our Savior.

I think, like most words in the gospel, it has multiple meanings, all of which are valid and useful at certain times.

Unfortunately, two different ideas are beinng mixed here. Philologically there is no possible way for "Jesus the Christ" to mean "He who saves is the anointed with light". Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Yeshua, or salvation. "He who saves" would have to be "moshia" according to the rules of Hebrew. Christ is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Mashiah (messiah), and neither explicitly make mention of any substance used in anointing (though in Hebrew the root is used in connection with oil only). What Bert is doing is conceptualising. He has decided that the anointing means receiving "light" and thus Christ must mean "anointed with light". This is somewhat similar to the Kabbalistic song "Bar Yohai". One of the lines reads "Bar Yohai, blessed are you, for you have been anointed with the oil of Gladness above your fellows. Bar Yohai, by the oil of holy anointing were you anointed, from the degree of holiness. "

This takes Psalms 45:8 and turns it into a kabbalistic secret. Gladness is God, and anointing oil here is turned into the sefirah Malchut pouring its essence onto Bar Yohai. Are we to take this to mean Gladness philologicaly means God, and anointing oil means essence of Malchut?

[bert10]

No one is asking you to bow to the "Superior Knowledge". I have backed most of the stuff using Church doctrines. What I have said will stand on its own...so there is no need for you to do anything. And I will tell you this if it is the truth of GOD you fighting it will not do any good.

bert10

I said you were completely wrong about the etymology of Jesus the Christ. As for faith being a principle of power, you presume to lecture people who've known and taught this for years, as if we should be bowing to your superior knowledge and revelations.

[bert10]

Anointing on the earth is done with Olive Oil. Light is Spirit (essence of GOD) For all things are and come from the Light.

We all agree that Jesus is the Chosen One..the Savior. That is the Calling. Now Jesus was called and Chosen to be the Savior. Such things comes with an Anointing. Whether you accept that it is of light or not...not my problem.

bert10

Unfortunately, two different ideas are beinng mixed here. Philologically there is no possible way for "Jesus the Christ" to mean "He who saves is the anointed with light". Jesus is the Greek form of the Hebrew Yeshua, or salvation. "He who saves" would have to be "moshia" according to the rules of Hebrew. Christ is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew Mashiah (messiah), and neither explicitly make mention of any substance used in anointing (though in Hebrew the root is used in connection with oil only). What Bert is doing is conceptualising. He has decided that the anointing means receiving "light" and thus Christ must mean "anointed with light". This is somewhat similar to the Kabbalistic song "Bar Yohai". One of the lines reads "Bar Yohai, blessed are you, for you have been anointed with the oil of Gladness above your fellows. Bar Yohai, by the oil of holy anointing were you anointed, from the degree of holiness. "

This takes Psalms 45:8 and turns it into a kabbalistic secret. Gladness is God, and anointing oil here is turned into the sefirah Malchut pouring its essence onto Bar Yohai. Are we to take this to mean Gladness philologicaly means God, and anointing oil means essence of Malchut?

[volgadon]

If all things are and come from the Light, then does the name Alan mean "rock of light"?

[Seminarysnoozer]

Anointing on the earth is done with Olive Oil. Light is Spirit (essence of GOD) For all things are and come from the Light.

We all agree that Jesus is the Chosen One..the Savior. That is the Calling. Now Jesus was called and Chosen to be the Savior. Such things comes with an Anointing. Whether you accept that it is of light or not...not my problem.

bert10

Like I said, earlier, the problem with this discussion is that you don't even know what the word 'light' really is. What is the "essence of God"? Does that mean "spiritually" or does that mean "priesthood power" or does that mean "God's spirit" or does that mean "Holy Ghost", etc.?

That is just another vague term that really means nothing in our existence any more than simply saying that Jesus was chosen by God before the world began, as the Bible dictionary states. If I say, Jesus was chosen to be our Savior before the world began and anointed by God to do so, why is that not sufficient. Even if "anointed by light" is the meaning, why is "anointed by light" significantly different than "Jesus was chosen before the world began and anointed by God"?

Without arguing that it is true or not, why is "anointed by light" more valuable than the Bible dictionary definition of "Christ"?

Obviously, you think there is some "Elite", saving value to distinguishing those words but I can't figure out why you are so passionate about these inherently vague, interpreted through physical eyes and imperfect language, descriptions. Maybe, it is supposed to be non-specific so as to convey a deeper and more encompassing definition.

If you think a more specific definition is somehow critical to our knowledge of God or Jesus, please tell us why you think it is critical to know this specific thing. Please don't answer, "those that are ready will know the answer" or something demeaning like that. Simply, tell us why you think that specific knowledge of the word "light" would be more saving than 'being anointed by God before the world began'. Thanks.

[bert10]

I do know....and I have given the key when I said all things are of and from the Light.

Sometimes the word Spirit means "Light" which contains all things...however in the OT when specifics are mentioned in the OT such as for example...Spirit of understanding, Spirit of knowledge and Spirit of wisdom. When specifics are used by GOD it means that men like Solomon for example...did receive the Spirit of wisdom, which is not all things that are contained in the light but only a partiality of it. Moses for example was made as God over water. Water would obey the voice of Moses...yet the Light Moses used came from GOD and Moses did receive many gifts that were contained in the Light...but not all.

Spirit also means at time...the Spirit as in "Ghost." So the word "Spirit" can mean the "Being of GOD", or "Power of GOD" and it can be used to specifics such as "Spirit of understanding" which means the other gifts that are of the Light are not made manifest into that person...When a word can hold more than one significance.... It can caused a lot of confusion.

And this is not all.....The Spirit which can also be called Light...is in all things above all things, etc. But also all things are made out of light. There is not any matter whether physical or Spiritual that is not made from the Light. All matter whether Spiritual or not obey GOD because GOD is the source of the Light. Therefore even rocks are made from light and the Spirit of God (light) is in all things above all things...see doctrines and covenants....The Spirit of Life is in all things and all things are living things. All things even rocks have intelligences according to their nature...and their intelligence is given to them by the Light of GOD which is in all things. Joshua did say one day the the stone had heard their words and it would stand as a testimony before GOD. Moses called the heaven and the Earth as witnesses that He gave Israel the Law of GOD.

This should help reconcile all that was given to us concerning the Light, and Spirit of GOD.

bert10

Like I said, earlier, the problem with this discussion is that you don't even know what the word 'light' really is. What is the "essence of God"? Does that mean "spiritually" or does that mean "priesthood power" or does that mean "God's spirit" or does that mean "Holy Ghost", etc.?

That is just another vague term that really means nothing in our existence any more than simply saying that Jesus was chosen by God before the world began, as the Bible dictionary states. If I say, Jesus was chosen to be our Savior before the world began and anointed by God to do so, why is that not sufficient. Even if "anointed by light" is the meaning, why is "anointed by light" significantly different than "Jesus was chosen before the world began and anointed by God"?

Without arguing that it is true or not, why is "anointed by light" more valuable than the Bible dictionary definition of "Christ"?

Obviously, you think there is some "Elite", saving value to distinguishing those words but I can't figure out why you are so passionate about these inherently vague, interpreted through physical eyes and imperfect language, descriptions. Maybe, it is supposed to be non-specific so as to convey a deeper and more encompassing definition.

If you think a more specific definition is somehow critical to our knowledge of God or Jesus, please tell us why you think it is critical to know this specific thing. Please don't answer, "those that are ready will know the answer" or something demeaning like that. Simply, tell us why you think that specific knowledge of the word "light" would be more saving than 'being anointed by God before the world began'. Thanks.

[Seminarysnoozer]

I do know....and I have given the key when I said all things are of and from the Light.

Sometimes the word Spirit means "Light" which contains all things...however in the OT when specifics are mentioned in the OT such as for example...Spirit of understanding, Spirit of knowledge and Spirit of wisdom. When specifics are used by GOD it means that men like Solomon for example...did receive the Spirit of wisdom, which is not all things that are contained in the light but only a partiality of it. Moses for example was made as God over water. Water would obey the voice of Moses...yet the Light Moses used came from GOD and Moses did receive many gifts that were contained in the Light...but not all.

Spirit also means at time...the Spirit as in "Ghost." So the word "Spirit" can mean the "Being of GOD", or "Power of GOD" and it can be used to specifics such as "Spirit of understanding" which means the other gifts that are of the Light are not made manifest into that person...When a word can hold more than one significance.... It can caused a lot of confusion.

And this is not all.....The Spirit which can also be called Light...is in all things above all things, etc. But also all things are made out of light. There is not any matter whether physical or Spiritual that is not made from the Light. All matter whether Spiritual or not obey GOD because GOD is the source of the Light. Therefore even rocks are made from light and the Spirit of God (light) is in all things above all things...see doctrines and covenants....The Spirit of Life is in all things and all things are living things. All things even rocks have intelligences according to their nature...and their intelligence is given to them by the Light of GOD which is in all things. Joshua did say one day the the stone had heard their words and it would stand as a testimony before GOD. Moses called the heaven and the Earth as witnesses that He gave Israel the Law of GOD.

This should help reconcile all that was given to us concerning the Light, and Spirit of GOD.

bert10

So, you are saying then we are all anointed with light. Yes, that clears that up.

[bert10]

Here on the Earth we use oil to to Anointings. More Specifically Olive oil. If read Revelation the only two things that GOD commands the Angels to not hurt are the Olives and the vine. These two elements are used for Sacred purposes.

Now, there is the earthly ordinances and there are ordinances done in heaven.

The goal is for us to learn to walk in the light as Christ is in the Light. Which mean eventually we are also given Light. Also notice when the blood cleanses us from sins.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Becoming partakers of the divine nature is required. WE are to receive unto us...Exceeding great and precious promises.

2 Peter 1:4 - Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

There are Earthly ordinances and there are heavenly ordinances.

Ephesians 5:18 - And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

Acts 9:17 - And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord,

[even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:4 - And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

John 12:36 - While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

To become children of the Light we must ourselves become filled with Light.

Ephesians 5:8 - For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

There is much more in the Scriptures and in the BOM. I use mostly Biblical references so that the Christians who read the post will not be able to say...that they were not made aware of these things. They who reject the BOM it shall be to their hurt.

To become Children of the Light is to put on the whole Armor of Light and this is also to be made partakers of the divine nature. For Christ said he is light and when we put on the whole armor of Light we put on Christ and are in the Light as Christ is in the Light and are Children of the Light even Sons of GOD.

That is what are to do while we are on the earth. Few do make it.

bert10

So, you are saying then we are all anointed with light. Yes, that clears that up.

[volgadon]

Bert, please answer my question about the name Alan.

[Seminarysnoozer]

And this is not all.....The Spirit which can also be called Light...is in all things above all things, etc. But also all things are made out of light. There is not any matter whether physical or Spiritual that is not made from the Light.

This should help reconcile all that was given to us concerning the Light, and Spirit of GOD.

bert10

hmm, I think I've heard this before. There is something separate from "light of Christ" and "spirit of God" that we are simply calling "light". It comes from God but it is an entity of itself. It is some kind of energy source, power or force. ...interesting.

"The force is an energy field created by all living things, it surrounds us, it penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together" - Obi-Wan to Luke

"Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing thru him" - Obi-Wan to Luke

"Death is a natural part of life. Rejoice for those around you who transform into the Force."

YODA, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith