Revelation Chapter 12

[Earthdude]

Hello to the network...

Wish all health, happiness and inspiration. Thanks to whoever setup the site.

My question:

I found via lds.org past Ensign issue (October 1983) a discussion noting the Book of Revelation Overview. Found no author from this dicsussion in the Ensign? The question I have and wish to confirm with others is the reference to the "Women" in many chapters of Revelation. The reference in Ensign 1983 noted Women = church (ecclesiastical aspect of the kingdom).

By chance are there any other talks references given referencing similar relationship?

[Gatekeeper]

Hi, EarthDude! I hope someone answers your question. Welcome! :)

[HiJolly]

Hello to the network...

Wish all health, happiness and inspiration. Thanks to whoever setup the site.

My question:

I found via lds.org past Ensign issue (October 1983) a discussion noting the Book of Revelation Overview. Found no author from this dicsussion in the Ensign? The question I have and wish to confirm with others is the reference to the "Women" in many chapters of Revelation. The reference in Ensign 1983 noted Women = church (ecclesiastical aspect of the kingdom).

By chance are there any other talks references given referencing similar relationship?

Not that I know of offhand.

1And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. 2And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.

The woman in verse 1 is the outer or external Churches, such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as they are on the earth.

Verse two speaks of the condition of earth/mortal life that we experience. As we strive to do our part in the Church, our birth to something greater (being born again) is difficult.

Verse three speaks of the "rod of iron" not as a rod to beat people with, but rather as it is in Lehi & Nephi's visionary dreams -- that is, a guide, a stay in difficult times, ie, the Holy Ghost (or to a lesser extent, the scriptures). This Man is probably meant to be Jesus Christ, but symbolically the other children (you and I) that follow are those who are 'born again' into the Church of the Firstborn. :)

HiJolly

[Earthdude]

I like your quote! Do we all recognize the truth if it sat on them?

For my benefit and others let us take one verse at a time as we can fall into the trap of assumption and miss some fantastic treasures hid-up by God for a reason.

Joseph Smith did a lot of fantastic translations of the Bible and Revelation 12 is re-translated in full. Again I wish to go verse by verse as this will spur a lot of discussion once we think we are done. Before moving to verse 2 & 3 I wish to go back to verse 1.

Joseph Smith Re-Translations verse 1 reads:

And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.

If I'm correct....

And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on earth. I like how God states "likeness of things on earth". a woman (no women) singular or church = Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Why do I state this? Read on.... woman clothed with the sun, (sun to me is direct light or revlation from the heavens?). I don't have reference to this or example in the scriptures yet. Someone has this informaiton I would like to know or share? read on.... and the moon under her feet. What in nature reflects the light from sun? OK the moon... What reflects direct revelation that we can see and read? Would not the scriptures e.g. The Book of Mormon, D&C and more be a reflection of God? read on.... and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. Interesting use of 12 stars... Would this not be the twelve apostles? Again I don't have reference to stars as apostle other than falling stars. We do kown that Satan was a fallen star.

And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman = Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints clothed with the sun = direct revelation, and the moon = scriptures under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars = twelve apostles. As stated there is a lot in just this first version.

Further Discussion…?

[jman]

An interesting discussion and I wish I had something more spiritual to contribute but alas I'm not all that spiritual of an individual. I did however want to share something I found as an Android app that you may enjoy. The app is a LDS Scripture citation index and I looked up Revelation chapter 12. From there it is linked to numerous talks given over the past (50 to a 100 years I'd guess) that reference chapter 12. I did not have time to read all of these talks (some are quite lengthy) but it was interesting to puruse them.

I look forward to reading responses from more learned Saints.

P.S. Not to hijack this discussion but does anyone know of a website beyond the official LDS site that would do the same as this app? It'd be great to print some of these talks out and keep them in a journal (cheaper to than buying all of the 'Discourses of So & So' for each prohphet or other leader of the church). Thanks.

[Earthdude]

Every person has somethign to offer learned or not. I too am not a spirtual person hence "Earthdude"; however, as my background requires hard review and interpretation"Geophysicist" I always question and realize no person other than God has all the answers. Yet having child like character to be openminded, loving and teachable a learned or non learned person can add to the discussion.

As for apps... I like the Iphone Sciptures from readscriptures.com. You can obtain them via Itunes (includes Joseph Smith Trnslattion and more). The new LDS.org includes Joseph Smith translation and past talks but not all are tied to the search (need to dig).