Seeking Advice

[Guest]

Hello all! I'm sure a lot of you know me by now, but my name is Jordan and I'm kinda new here, joined a couple of days ago. Anyways, I was baptized into the LDS Church last year in October but have been inactive since the middle of December of last year. I've been looking into things, both pro-Mormon, anti-Mormon, in between and the like. Maybe some of you could help me, but would I be able to go back to the Church if I don't believe the Book of Mormon is inspired scripture and if I don't believe it came from God? I'm just curious because after looking at everything that is pretty much where I stand at this point in time. I'm not asking for a debate or arguments for the Book of Mormon, just simply asking a question. Also, not only that but I don't agree with the whole Temple thing as I have found out that most of the temple ceremonies were taken directly from the Masons. There is definitely a tie between Mormonism and Masonry as far as I can tell from the research I've done. Anyways, I look forward to reading all of your answers. :)

May the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

[livy111us]

Sure you can and I would encourage you to do so.

As for the Temple endowment, only a very small portion has any similarities to Masonry and many of those are based on Christian and Jewish embraces. I won't get into those but here are a few easy to read articles which show the Endowment to be ancient:

The Israelite Temple and the Early Christians

Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices

and a reference site with several ancient depictions and old paintings as well as lots of great info on prayer circles, garments, washings and anointings, and more.

LDS Temple Endowment

[Spartan117]

would I be able to go back to the Church if I don't believe the Book of Mormon is inspired scripture and if I don't believe it came from God?

Absolutely. I'm curious though, the Book of Mormon is the "keystone of our religion" as stated by Joseph Smith in the Introduction to the Book of Mormon ...

BoM Introduction

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.”

So without the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith also said ...

Joseph Smith Quotes

Take away the Book of Mormon and the revelations, and where is our religion? We have none.

There is a domino effect here, if the Book of Mormon is not scripture, then Joseph Smith was not a prophet, then none of Joseph's successors were prophets, then the church is not only false, but a fabrication and an ongoing hoax.

I am certainly not trying to discourage you from going back to your old ward, I'm just trying to figure out why you would want to? If there's no truth to it for you?

You are definitely welcome there regardless, in fact I'm reminded of an article I read about tolerance towards people of other faiths at church ...

FAIR: Tolerance

Joseph even invited non-Mormon ministers to speak from Mormon pulpits in the city, a practice that continued under Brigham Young in the Latter-day Saint settlement of Salt Lake City. "President Young," reported George Q. Cannon, "said he wanted the people to hear these men and their views. For years this was done. Prominent ministers were invited to speak to us. I remember Methodist bishops and others preaching to us... Why? Because we were willing to extend liberty to everybody."

So of course you're welcome whether you "still believe" or not, I am just genuinely curious as to why you would want to. I know several people who are less active but have no belief whatsoever in the church anymore, but they still go from time to time. I also know people who are not members but go to their local ward almost every Sunday anyway. One of my friends is very very Protestant, but goes to an LDS ward on Sundays. He takes his kids too, he loves the primary program. Doesn't believe a single thing about the church. Now I'm not saying that you fall into any of these categories, but I see this a lot and can't wrap my head around it. I'm not being difficult with you, not trying to argue or debate anything, I'd like to hear your point of view is all. Sorry for rambling and thank you :)

[sister_in_faith]

I started off in the church without a firm testimony of joseph smith... I developed it after years of teaching and learning. The temple was a little easier for me because I had one in my town, and was drawn there by the spirit. Keep going to church, and you will build your testimony from there... You will be happy you did!

[ldsz]

As for the temple and Masonry, I think that many of those who are critical of the church tend to leave out the fact that there is a not only similarities between the LDS endowment and Masonry, but also many other rituals found in temples of other faiths throughout the world, and most importantly, the Judeo-Christian Bible. They are certainly not the same, however, I think you will find common elements if you compare any of them. Hugh Nibley, a renowned Ancient Scripture scholar, does a remarkable job on explaining these relationships. Does that mean the LDS Endowment was copied? Not at all. I think it is the full version of apostate and lost rituals that stemmed from true rites during the dispensations when the Priesthood was on the earth.

There are common elements among the Endowment and Masonry. However, I wouldn't go to say that one was copied from the other. There are still vast differences. The LDS temple rites were being developed and revealed long before Joseph Smith became a freemason. Nor was it complete until after his death. The were not endowments for the dead until the St. George Temple was dedicated long after Joseph Smith was martyred.

That's my two cents. I guess with your two cents we now have four cents. I don't know where that gets us, but best of luck to you.

[ldsz]

Also, with your concern about the Book of Mormon.

I have been where you are at. I am a convert to the church. I loved everything about the church except for this little thing (well big thing) called the Restoration. This whole Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon, First Vision thing wasn't clickin'.

First and foremost, the greatest sense of veracity you can find on the Book of Mormon is in your own heart through diligent study and prayer. That's how it worked for me. When I sincerely read the Book of Mormon, I truly feel the Spirit.

As I questioned the Book of Mormon, one of the things I had to do was put it in perspective. Before I was LDS, I was a firm believer in the Bible. I believed in the miracles and direct dealings with God to man. However, I believe (though I am not an expert in any way) that the Exodus doesn't have much going for it archaeologically. Yet, that doesn't affect my belief in it, or any other scripture account to a degree, so in my mind why would it matter for the Book of Mormon?

As far as I know, there is truly no one clearly evident account that disproves the Book of Mormon. All we have are few historical accounts that give no definitive answer.

But as I said, it really does come from that personal revelation, and nothing else.

So there, now we have six cents.

[Guest gopecon]

Anyone is welcome to attend LDS services, provided that they are respectful of what is going on and don't try to impose their views onto others. You don't need to believe in the BofM to go. I would hope that as long as don't try to convince others of your doubts (questions are fine, advocacy is another thing), you would be welcomed.

[LDSVALLEY]

I've been a convert for 17 years.

Remember when you are looking into information no matter if it is for or against the church to always keep in mind the motivation behind what is written.

Very recently we had a couple who didn't get the answer they liked from the church about a past mistake they had made. So they left the church, requesting their names be removed for the second time. Our families were friends even after they left, they found a church they were happy with and we supported them. Three months later all of a sudden they went anti-mormon and told us we could no longer be friends.

They deleted all church friends except for a new convert couple, who now are not coming to church anymore and have ignored all the friends they have made. Because the first couple were upset with an answer they have actively worked against the church instead of simply walking away. They have gone so far as to reject everyone because of a connection to the church.

Look to the Lord not the internet for direction. One thing that convinced me the church was true was the huge amount of active anti mormonism out there. I figured if people were spending hours and hours of their life being upset and fighting the church then it made sense the church was true. Most people who leave other religions simply just ignore it.

Last everything I found out from church or other sources I took to the Lord. Remember things are built upon each other, we are not expected to have a firm testimony of everything all at once it grows little by little over time.

[Guest]

I didn't know you could get baptized without a testimony that the Book of Mormon is true.

[bytor2112]

From 1st Corinthians:

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Not from talks forums or volumes of pro or anti material will you arive at the truth.....only by the Holy Spirit.